The Shape of Things To Come

[Ravenser]

This is a repost of a topic started in the old RMWeb Products forum , summarising what can be expected from the main RTR manufacturers over the 2 years 2009/10

 

The updated "scoreboard" reads:

 

Bumped with update for recent releases and Dapol/Kernow Beattie well tank

 

the list of new goodies in 4mm for the next 2 years:

 

Hornby:

2009 - Schools [released], Standard 4MT [released], Castle, Clan [on point of release], 395 Javelin, a wagon or two, Pullmans [observation car released, buffet imminent]

2010 - LNER steam engine , one or two other steam engines, a D+E item?, Mk3 DVT and Mk3 buffet, ZCAs, OTA, ? GW coaches

 

 

Bachmann:

2009 - 150/1 [released], 150/2 [released] 4-CEP (Dec - may slip into 2010??), A2. Class B TEA, autoballaster, cattle wagon

2010 - Standard 3MT tank (mock ups seen - may even be late 2009), 04/ROD (early 2010?), - 105, MPV , 2EPB (may be 2011), new 03, TPO, MBA, JPV, IPA

 

Heljan:

2009 - 17[released], Kestrel [released], 14 (*Howes), no rolling stock

2010 - 15, 86, 23 (may be 2011) probably no rolling stock

I'm assuming current production problems will ensure the 15 slips into next year

 

Dapol:

2009 - 22 , multi fret, KQA pocket wagon, MBA [released]

2010 - Thumper (*Kernow), ?Original Warship(*Kernow), Beattie well tank (*Kernow - Sept?), Sentinel shunter (Y1/Y3 - *Model Rail) ?Stove R (*Hornby)

 

Vi- Trains:

Don't hold your breath - any new venture would require development from the ground up,

 

 

It is striking that Kernow continue to expand their commissioning and all the Dapol 4mm items for next year are via Kernow. This is more than a one -off venture by a model shop now - are we seeing something developing towards the business model of outfits like Auscision and Eureka down under - ie direct selling of models developed in house and commissioned from a third party factory? There are elements of this in the Vi-Trains /Hobby Company relationship as well.

 

Second pregrouping kettle to be announced this year...

 

I can't think of any other 4mm RTR announcements since this was originally posted, other than the pocket wagon from DC Kits/C-Rail

 

In an ideal world , this would go in several folders, but then there is a risk of discussion taking place in several forums...

 

Link to the original thread - 6 pages of discussion

 

Shape of Things to Come - original debate

 

It is perhaps worth reposting Phil's take on the 4mm D+E side of things, from another angle

 

Thanks for the update Rave - guessing that like me you are not so hot on 2mm scale because, is there not some antipodean involvement in Ixion ?

 

Anyway -sticking to the theme, and more particularly to RTR D&E for the minute, I am going to try and categorise 4mm scale D&E models into generations for this exercise - listed as TOPS class numbers for ease of listing (please don't start the TOPS classification issue in this thread). This might give a fair idea of where we are now, so that we can look forward to what the future product base might be.

 

 

1st Generation models

Hornby Dublo / Wrenn 08,20,23,28,EMU (tinplate)

Trix AL1,124

Hornby 08(ish),31,35,37,47,77,AL1,101, SR 2 car EMU

Playcraft NBL?, NBL shunter

 

 

2nd Generation

Mainline/Palitoy 45

Fleischmann 42/43

Hornby 21,25

Jouef 40

 

3rd Generation

Lima 09,20,26,27,31,37,40,47,50,52,55,59,60,66,73,87,HST,101,117

Hornby 52,58,HST,110,155,90,91

Dapol 150

Mainline 03,42,56

Airfix 31

 

 

4th Generation

Bachmann 04,20,24,25,37,42,45,66,156,158,166,170

Heljan 47,52,35

Dapol 390

Hornby 86,142,466

Lima 121,92

 

 

5th Generation

Bachmann 03,08,47,55,57,DELTIC,105,108,150,4CEP

Heljan 14,15,17,26,27,33,53,58,Kestrel,86

Hornby 08,31,50,56,60,HST

VI Trains 37,47

Dapol 22,41,205

 

 

I believe the 5th generation is perhaps drawing to close and one could argue that factory fitted sound locos are starting of the 6th generation. It is still a little concerning that newly branded mainstream RTR stuff is still being sold without a DCC socket (class 170) so is without doubt still in gen 4 in my view. Perhaps another feature distinguishing gen 6 would be underfloor power trains in MUs ? I bought a German outline, Japanese manufactured 4 car DMU ten years ago with underfloor motor and cardan shafts to the bogies !!!!

 

There is much to debate here as I am quite sure some would regard Hornby's 52 as a gen 2 rather than gen 3 model etc. I also stand corrected on any omissions from the list which has been swiftly compiled from memory. What I am mulling on is whether there is any likelihood of a scale "pleasing to the eye" class 25 and class 40 - two of my most serious "wants". I look down the list and see that some models have been reproduced several times - the 40 and the 52 both making three times around. Funny - I can live with the Heljan 52 but have major issues with all three of the 40s. Likewise the Heljan BRCW type 2s, but not the BR built Sulzer type 2s.

 

Feel free to add or correct anything I've missed from the listsLast edited by Phil on Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:59 am, edited 4 times in

 

Edited 5/11 for Dapol Sentinel, Stove R etc

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On the steam loco front, the question has to be 'where next?'

 

The staple fodder of the RTR ranges, 'big engines', are pretty much done. Hornby have the opportunity to do DoG as a variant on their Britannia components, and there are a few more late surviving 4-4-0s for them to exploit. Then there are renewals of existing dated models as seen recently with Scot, Patriot, Jubilee and Castle (imminent); just the King, Nelson, B12, B17, V2 to mop up. Anyone brave enough to venture a Thompson pacific?

 

The second string in RTR steam appears to be BR standards, that too is crowded, just one class to go apart from DoG.

 

So where next: big mixed traffic types which lasted well into the BR era (S15, 47XX, B16) or earlier express passenger locos which didn't survive in any numbers into BR days (GNR and LBSCR large boilered atlantic family for example)? Or is it going to be 'next generation' models of Bulleid, Gresley and Stanier pacifics, with every conceivable bell and whistle added?

[Barry Ten]

 

So where next: big mixed traffic types which lasted well into the BR era (S15, 47XX, B16) or earlier express passenger locos which didn't survive in any numbers into BR days (GNR and LBSCR large boilered atlantic family for example)? Or is it going to be 'next generation' models of Bulleid, Gresley and Stanier pacifics, with every conceivable bell and whistle added?

 

Judging by the number of Bulleid pacifics still hanging around on shelves (I've just acquired a brand new, box-fresh Blackmoor Vale which must have come out of the factory in 2001) I can't see there being much incentive to do yet another re-tool on these. Not sure how the other pacifics have been selling but I'd need serious persuasion that there's much to be gained in superceeding the existing models. Hornby's Princess Coronation is now very good indeed - it could use a little work around the front frame area, but other than that, it's pretty convincing, I'd argue. I don't like the fixed truck arrangement on the WCs, Brits etc but I admit it does result in a very convincing Stanier pacific.

 

As you say, still massive gaps in the workaday haulers - but I could imagine the manufacturers arguing that big black goods/mixed traffic types don't sell all that well.

 

LBSCR Atlantics? A nice model of one of those, in umber, with some suitable matching stock, would be exactly the kind of thing to tempt me purely on the basis that it's a lovely thing to behold, irrespective of where it fits into my personal modelling interests.

[Ravenser]

The logical next place to go is the reasonable sized mixed traffic engines. Many layouts can't really justify a Pacific - but a big suburban tank, a 2-6-0 or 4-4-0 or light 4-6-0 , or a big 0-6-0 are much more widely usable

 

 

BR Standards have largely been done, and therefore it becomes a question of looking at the Grouping era locos. we're seeing the start of that with the T9 and Schools - Bachmann and Hornby have more or less covered the LMS second eleven , so that points towards the LNER and GW.

 

The debates we're seeing here and elsewhere make sense in that context - the LNER is admittedly badly served and must have the greatest potential but the GW ranges are looking long in the tooth. Hence we're seeing people talking about LNER suburban tanks, Midland/LMS 0-6-0s , LNER 4-6-0s and 0-6-0s , and our own LNER 4-4-0 debate

 

There's a bit more to sort out in the older generation models than you suggest (eg the B1 , the Manor, and the 43xx - not to mention 2251 , Dean Goods and LMS 4F)

[Dick Turpin]

Some interesting points made here, and lots of potential for an interesting debate. The manufacturers will not only have to think about where the next sales growth areas might be, but how to ensure that they are self sustaining. One way would be to introduce integrated ranges of stock which could from the basis for whole modelling projects and thereby perpetuate further sales.

 

Another factor is always going to be how likely a subject is to appeal to devotees from other regions or areas to make a purchase. As already said, a LBSCR Atlantic is a case in point; I??™m an LNER enthusiast and I know I??™d have to have one, and I??™m sure there are plenty of similarly iconic potentials which would incite similar passion.

 

James Raven

[Guest Max Stafford]

Judging by the number of Bulleid pacifics still hanging around on shelves (I've just acquired a brand new, box-fresh Blackmoor Vale which must have come out of the factory in 2001) I can't see there being much incentive to do yet another re-tool on these. Not sure how the other pacifics have been selling but I'd need serious persuasion that there's much to be gained in superceeding the existing models...As you say, still massive gaps in the workaday haulers - but I could imagine the manufacturers arguing that big black goods/mixed traffic types don't sell all that well.

 

Paradoxically, bearing in mind your two observations, Al, it's not the easiest job in the world to get hold of a Hornby Black Five in these parts - particularly the earlier ones. Try getting 44908 for example.

 

Maybe some old, black workhorses go better than the shiny, green namers!

 

Oh and a nice RTR Caley blue or NB bronze engine wouldn't go down badly with me either...!

 

Dave.

[Western Scottish]

Another factor is always going to be how likely a subject is to appeal to devotees from other regions or areas to make a purchase. As already said, a LBSCR Atlantic is a case in point; I??™m an LNER enthusiast and I know I??™d have to have one, and I??™m sure there are plenty of similarly iconic potentials which would incite similar passion

 

Good point there James. I think there are a number of locos out there that are attractive enough to justify enthusiasts buying them although not necesserily needing them because they are either not their era or location. Ravenser has put a lot of work into this (I followed the thread on the old forum) but I wonder if it is just too logical and well thought out. After all we would never had locos like the Caley Pug or LBSCR E2 tank engine on this basis. Manufacturers should not just follow wish lists but try to stimulate the market. To this end I like Max's suggestions "Oh and a nice RTR Caley blue or NB bronze engine wouldn't go down badly with me either...! " or maybe an LBSCR Atlantic, Midland Single Wheeler,LNWR Precursor etc. None of these are particularly needed or obvious to manufacture , but made to the standards of the T9 I'm sure would go down very well.

[Pixie]

I'm not entirely sure where the future markets may go but there seems to be several examples of 'bread and butter' prototypes that are in dire need of updating. The Fowler 4F is a prime example - numerous, wide spread and long lived it seems to me to be a perfect candidate, which a lot of layouts would need. Same goes for the GWR 61xx, which I guess (from an uninformed writer) the tooling could be adapted for the other types too? A Met-Cam 101 and LMS 20T Stanier brake van would also seem logical candidates. For 'oddities' I'd of thought that the 89, City of Truro or Duke of Gloucester would be useful for layouts and also have that 'phwoar' factor that can lead to impulse buys (Hell - the latter worked on me and the Deltic!)

 

If groups of stocks which would form entire modelling projects are the new school of thinking then surely the Woodhead would be a serious contender? If a manufacturer produced an EM1, EM2 and 506 unit then that's a huge amount of the traffic covered. I guess the catenery could be also produced as part fo the range.

 

In 2mm I think there's a major market for decent Mk.1s and Mk.2s - the old Farish ones are all right but they're not in the same league as the new Met-Cam Pullmans or Staniers. In many ways I really hope these don't happen as it could have a real effect on my future modelling plans...

 

That's my tupance anyway!

 

OMS -

 

Pix

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Oh and a nice RTR Caley blue or NB bronze engine ...

I have this hope that (provided the economy generally picks up) the NRM might just continue with the occasional nice example from their collection to provide items of this ilk.

 

Wagons now: how do we shift Hornby out of their torpor and get a steady production of freight types to the same standard as their admirable Shark?

[neal]

Without wanting to create another wishlist, we are talking about what might constitute the 'next level'.

 

In my eyes, the 4F is an obvious choice, which (with tender already available) would be an economic model for Bachmann to produce.

 

It has been said that recent Bachmann models have been 'competent' if not ground breaking. How about producing a simple mechanism (driven from the centre axle) to provide some moving inside motion. Whilst not expecting prototypical chassis frames, would it not be a compromise to produce a hollow in the chassis block, with oscilating counterbalance weights that would move with a fantastic syncopation.

 

To my eyes, this sort of detail (which is highly visible on a number of inside and 3 or 4 cylinder prototypes) is far more worthy of representation compared to opening smokebox doors, and perspex sightglasses.

 

 

If they can do it in Lego:

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/3724280222_61967cb73b.jpg

 

I'm sure Bachmann or Hornby could take this step forward.

 

Neal

[John M Upton]

I can think of two Standards not done (not counting DoG and a Crosti 9F) with the 77xxx series and the Class 2 Standard Tanks, the former seems to be a fairly straightforward adaptation of Bachmann's forthcoming Class 3 Tank whilst when Bachmann get around to retooling the Ivatt 2MT to lose the split chassis I can easily see that they will do an adaptive mould to produce both the Ivatt and BR Standard versions.

 

The big question for me will be the reaction to the Heljan 86 when it appears, will this spark the market for OHLE locos to the same standard as recent D&E and Steam releases as quite frankly it is a fish in a barell situation, all of the current crop of 8x and 9x overhead electric locos (Hornby 86, 90 and 91 plus the Limby 87) are quite frankly badly dated crap which show up like a sore thumb in the range.

[The Black Hat]

Hello all

 

I think there are a few factors that will influcence the way that the market is due to go within the next few months. Firstly I think that the market is looking towards a new area of production, where by as a whole one of the regions is covered. A premise of mine has always been that specific areas of the network are more likely to be modelled when the nuculus of a fleet of engines is available and the promise of more to follow. As a result I believe that the next region to be considered for modelling will be either the eastern region or western. I am more inclinded to think that the eastern region will be first for a few reasons.

 

First, I am a north eastern man and despite being all of 26 I am passionate and proud of my regions heritage and its railway pedigree. Yet, despite this obvious desire for my home region to be created, I hope there are other factors. The second is that a fair few midland region designs went to work on areas of the eastern region, the north east being a case in point. As a result, engines such as the Fairburn and Stanier tanks, the Ivatt 46xxx and 43xxx moguls mixed with other BR standard designs such as the 76xxx. Also, the main stud of Eastern region express engines is already available. Hornby will always have a Mallard and Flying Scotsman in their range, but Bachmann will also bring the A1 and A2 to complete this. As a result, whats needed to really create the full feel of the Eastern region are not the main large engines, but rather the engines that do most of the hard labour and go un-noticed.

 

So, new engines being constucted such as the Robinson 04, which were mainly great central engines, will add to the North East scene as a few I think did work to Tyne Dock and Consett, but also the Standard 3 tank too is available and a few of them were North East machines. This leads me to John Uptons quote:

 

I can think of two Standards not done (not counting DoG and a Crosti 9F) with the 77xxx series and the Class 2 Standard Tanks, the former seems to be a fairly straightforward adaptation of Bachmann's forthcoming Class 3 Tank

 

I take your point that Standards are a good bet to try to appeal to a mass national frame work, but its all the better when they fit to a general region, where the pool of engines can be made. I dont think there are too many detail differences between the 76xxx and 77xxx engines, it might even be as much as a change of number is required, but if the 77xxx engines were made, most were allocated to work the Darlington / Bishop Auckland to Barnard Castle and over the top to Stainmore, Krikby Stephen and Tebay, being lighter for the bridges on the route.

 

As a result for those four reasons listed above I think the North Eastern region in particular has merit to lead a case towards the expansion of engines for the Eastern region, slowly working south! All that would be needed would be a Q6, the chassis for this is the Super D, being already available, while other North Eastern designs such can be made from other chassis available, such as the G5, from that M7, A K1 from a K3, while a J21 could share a chassis with a new J15.

 

However, the problem for the eastern region is finding areas that can be exploited to bolster the idea of which pre-grouping area should be done first to bring the sales that manufacturers will be wanting after the down turn. The LNER had a number of pre-grouping designs that remained with them throughout the period in which the LNER and subsequent BR Eastern region opperated. As such choosing that 0-6-0 J class engine will prove to be significant should the Eastern region be selected as the more likely area to generate sales.

 

This isnt to forget other regions though. However, I think that the new Castle done by Hornby is a token gesture to the region to maintain its market influence, and maintain a policy of upgrading older models, much as Bachmann have done with Midland engines in their range.

 

Yet, despite this obvious canvassing for the Eastern region and the hope that it is where the market is to go next, there are many other factors that will be of signficance over the next coming months.

 

The most obvious of these will be the measure of success for which custom new engines are made for limited edition runs, or specific shops or suppliers. The first enterant into this field was the NRM at York, and while the Bachmann Deltic prototype has no doubt been popular attention should turn to whether such engines like Beattie Well tank commissioned for one shop, the class 17 Clayton for another, and now the sentinal shunter for Model Rail magazine (another candidate for a North Eastern machine!!). Should these smaller runs of engines, yet at a higher price prove to be successful, (as I think they will be as people will pay more for an engine they really want or one they havent got) then I think this is the direction that the hobby will turn too to get those more obsqure engines for specific areas - like all those J class eastern region engines!

 

The other way I think that think things will go will be the specific ways in which DCC opperation becomes more prototypical and care taken so that engines feature the functions to allow prototypical opperation. I also think that in time the price of items such as sound engines will come down as more are made and technology made cheaper as advances and savings make it easier to procure and manufacture, yet this could be some time as demand for these engines and functions remains high as people enjoy the play factor that DCC brings.

 

Its an interesting few months... i just hope theres some obvious north eastern flavour annouced before the end of it....

[Ed-farms]

 

I dont think there are too many detail differences between the 76xxx and 77xxx engines, it might even be as much as a change of number is required

 

Sadly its more than that, 77XXX had a smaller boiler and different cab - more like the Std 2 78XXX series

[The Black Hat]

Indeed, having checked, there are substancial differences between the two.... The boiler is different, especially with more of a dome, and its 5ft shorter.

 

Well.... just means the G5, Q6, and J21 hopefully come first....

[Guest Max Stafford]

Hopefully the first two for starters - I have a J21 in the works queue right now! Another vote for the 3MT 2-6-0 as the NE shared the class with the ScR. A new boiler and cab moulding atop the 4MT chassis would be sufficient. Likewise, a change of cab, clacks footplate front and tender cabin will give you the equally useful 78XXX 2-6-0 from the small Ivatt. This is another class common on the NE and ScR, following an almost straight line from Tweedmouth, through Hawick, Dumfries and Stranraer! Earlier days saw them hanging around Stainmore a lot too!

 

Dave.

[Dave777]

In 2mm I think there's a major market for decent Mk.1s and Mk.2s - the old Farish ones are all right but they're not in the same league as the new Met-Cam Pullmans or Staniers. In many ways I really hope these don't happen as it could have a real effect on my future modelling plans...

 

 

I agree that the Mk Is and IIs are probably the achilles heel of current N gauge rolling stock.

 

D+E locos are now pretty well served (with only older toolings like the 33, 31 and 55 needing to be dealt with at some point), the latest steamers are a huge leap over what has gone before (see through wheels, scale bogie wheels, etc), Farish are continuing to bring out suitable rolling stock for earlier layouts (PO coal wagons were given all new tooling a few years back, since then we've had tankers, conflats and cattle vans), and both Farish and Dapol are now handling much of the up to date freight stock. For passenger stock, we've had Dapol producing a variety of quality stuff over the years, then Farish gave us the Pullmans and now the Staniers which have really upped the ante. With Dapol now doing Mk IIIs that just leaves a gap for the middle time period where Mk Is and IIs fit. We're regularly told that the late steam/early diesel period is the most popular period modelled, but I'm unsure if this applies to N gauge as well (I suspect later periods (70s/80s/90s) may be more popular), but if this does also apply to N gauge then the coach for this period is indeed the Mk I really, so that leaves a fairly atom bomb-sized hole in the improving UK N gauge lineup.

 

Bachmann have all the CAD work from their OO models (generally accepted as being pretty much spot on), so at least the research doesn't need doing. It's 'only' the intricacies of the N gauge tooling and how the various components will fit together than needs working out.... which they've practised with their Pullmans and Staniers.

 

The current method of printing onto clear body shells has served them well and allowed for a huge variety of models to be offered. The 'flush glazing' was an interesting - if not wholly convincing - aspect to this approach, but I think the Staniers have shown how good N gauge coaches can be. And the thing about Mk Is is that, in theory, they should be a bit of a banker when it comes to getting the cost of tooling back. Yes the variety of Mk I coaches means there's a fair few different toolings required, but the massive time span and vast number of different liveries that can be covered means they would sit in the catalogue for the next 15-20 years (and if that sounds excessive, there's plenty of stuff in the Farish range of that vintage which still sells). A big investment, but decades of use and a massive range of liveries.

 

 

(my girlfriend doesn't take a great deal of interest in my anorak hobby but since I usually unwrap the latest purchase on the sofa most new things are observed - usually this is without comment, sometimes a 'that's good' utterance will emerge, but the only negative I've ever heard about a model's appearance was when I got some Mk Is and she noticed (from the other end of the sofa) the printed sides and asked 'Are those stopgaps until you get something else?'. Even to a non-modeller the current Mk Is were considered a poor model...)

 

[Sailor Charon]

I hate to be negative, but I have a very bad feeling that better Mk1s (in N gauge) are going to be a long time coming. If no new (old style) Mk1s appear in 2010, then maybe that will be a good sign. But while the old, not so good, Mk1s continue...

[Vanders]

D+E locos are now pretty well served (with only older toolings like the 33, 31 and 55 needing to be dealt with at some point)

 

I've got my fingers crossed that Dapol will do the obvious and move on to a Class 33 once they've released the Class 26 they've already announced. Heck, maybe we'll finally get a 33/1!

[cbeagleowner]

There are three ways taht spring to mind about the future of the hobby. first in terms of the locos as to waht loco to make retool. (I don't intend the following to be a wishilist style but more of a way of htinking point)

 

don't get me wrong - I thinki it's super that Bachmann are producing workman like (though charismatic) 04's, Super D's and WD's. They are super model and I love them. I hope that stuff like this, eg Midland 4F's are going to be in the future. But (do correct me if I'm wrong) types like this seem to expereince great intial sales but then tail off (have we even seen that with WC / BoB's?) as opposed to sales of stuff like A4's which seem to be comstantly high.

 

I was really chuffed when a K3 came out, but I heard sales of the K3 which would have been a good bet for the serious modeller wern't great. I don't know if that's true or not. Maybe this is a relfaciont on the market, and that most model railway sales aren't from the 'serious modeller' sector (to coin a phrase) as opposed to the 'toy train' sector. (I appreciate those terms are very general) When I was a kid, I wasnted big engines, and colourful engines and still to some extent like big and colourful a lot! And from waht I've heard (misheard?!) in the past this is where the main end of the market is, along with engines that peopel can see and ride behind today. And K3's are neither of those. I wonder if that puts Bachmann off retooling the B1 and V2?

 

From that place, I think that a Thompson pacific (ceratinly A2/3) give scope for this, though with the way that the companies take into account the detailing varioations and seem to be clever at making things modular (eg boilers, domes chimneys and differnt tenders) A2/1's and 2's, which though small in number have a massive number of livery and significant physical vairations too. I think I've siad before that their sucess and popularity in traffic would have little impact on their sales as models. Kids who like big stuff would like them just as much as an A1 or A2 or a clan (which some din't highly regard either) (perhaps with the exception of tornado) and for 'real modellers' they would be a part of the scene.

 

Secondly, maybe when we think of the way forward it's also about the quality of the locos and step changes in their deatail. As has been said before the groundbreaking balck 5 doesn't look so groundbreaking next to some of Hornby's latest realeases. Ther is a part of me that wishes that the A3 hadn't been retooled when it was now seeing the standard 4mt and castle and clan! And it's great to see that this is continuing to be bettered, eg love the fact the new A2 is going to have etched brass nameplates - will they retrofit these to all locos in the future I wonder, and it's great to see teh upgrading job Bachmann have done on the peaks. Maybe this is one way in which things will change in the future (let's just make it so the detail doesn't fall off)

 

Thirdly, and I htink this might be the biggy - I tink the shpae of things to come might be in better technology in the loco. We've seen better ways of chipping locos, and better motors - maybe continuing improvments of motors and the like, but also with better sound and light options are the way forward, and even really high quality sychronised smoke. I know now it seems a pipedream, but if you see the KM1 dynamic steam in albeit big models - wow - that's impressive. Now I'm sure there are a million and one reason it couldn't make it into 4mm, but if it could - woudln't an A4 liek that (or pick your flavour of loco) sell well? I seem to rememebr an American 4mm loco that ran with speed synchro smoke and sound. It was really impreessive and beat the pants of a 'normal' uk loco with sound equpiment and and a smoke generator. (in my opionin). I wonder if this might stretch beyond locos too to stuff like copmuter control. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I love the idea of a layout that has a timetable, and coputers workign teh railway to that timetable. that woudl bring in a completely different way of playing trains...perhaps.

 

Anyhow, I'd best stop, but jsut a few ramblings for you!

[Blandford1969]

I agree with lots of the comments already made. I seam to remember an article in BRM with Bachmann, which implied their choices of what would be done was based on engines that worked over a number of resions to increase the number of people who would be likley to buy them.

 

Certainly it would be good to see improved chips and sound that is more realistic.

 

It would also be great to see engines that were not numbered allowing the modeller to choose their number.

 

Engines, coaches and wagons have lept forward in OO and N which has been great. Where so far things have not moved forward is ready to run track. I appreciate that this has been discussed before,however it is the one thing that would save many from disasters on building points and crossings.

 

In terms of other developments, more types of the same coaches would be good,so for example more of the Mk1 range, or Staniers, Gresleys, Maunsells etc. I'd say its nice to dream, but over the last few years its what we have been getting.

 

My only concern is that with the economy slower that manufactuers may hold back for fear of a lack of sales, which i hope is not the case

[RedgateModels]

Another vote for the 3MT 2-6-0 as the NE shared the class with the ScR. A new boiler and cab moulding atop the 4MT chassis would be sufficient. Likewise, a change of cab, clacks footplate front and tender cabin will give you the equally useful 78XXX 2-6-0 from the small Ivatt. This is another class common on the NE and ScR, following an almost straight line from Tweedmouth, through Hawick, Dumfries and Stranraer! Earlier days saw them hanging around Stainmore a lot too!

 

Dave.

 

As we noted in the old place the class 3 tank almost seems designed by Bachmann to donate it's boiler to a new cab to sit atop the 76xxx chassis. If they were to do a 78xxx too I would be a very poor boy (and my old Hornby Ivatt class 2 would never receive it's promised conversion .....)

 

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

With the growing interest in Irish stuff, maybe there's scope for some original steam models in that direction. The gauge issue obviously doesn't put people off modelling the more recent stuff, so it presumably shouldn't be too much of a barrier to those wishing to turn the clock back. Just a thought...

[Guest Max Stafford]

As we noted in the old place the class 3 tank almost seems designed by Bachmann to donate it's boiler to a new cab to sit atop the 76xxx chassis......)

 

This sharing of common parts would certainly appear to be in keeping with the spirit of the BR Standard concept in any case!

 

Dave.

[Caledonian]

There is a Hornby shop within Fenwick??™s department store in Newcastle upon Tyne and except at Christmas when space is at a premium it always has a couple of shelves of discounted items which are either returns from retailers or just unsold stock being cleared out of the warehouse at Margate. Its therefore interesting to see what turns up and obviously isn??™t selling. For example they have Gresley sleepers in blood and custard and its noticeable that this is the only Gresley in this livery still lingering in the 2009 catalogue.

 

While I don??™t take much notice of the D&E stuff its very noticeable that most of the steam coming through over the last year has been King Arthurs, West Countrys and M7s.

 

Now what this suggests to me is that there may be a certain degree of over-optimism as to the potential for multiple sales. There??™s no doubt the Arthur is a superb model and I??™m occasionally tempted even though its way out of theatre for me, but I certainly wouldn??™t buy two. Granted if I was a Southern modeller I might get a couple, but three, far less four? And that??™s why I suspect they??™re now being discounted; the market is pretty well satisfied. OK there are currently people out there all a-twitch as to which particular School will be produced, and who will no doubt write anguished letters bemoaning Hornby??™s lack of foresight in not bringing it out right away, but how significant are they?

 

The point is that surveys and polls declaring that a particular locomotive is bound to sell because hundreds were built in 23 different liveries, doesn??™t necessarily point to big sales. There are certain anonymous black workhorses that will always sell simply because every layout needs them; Black Fives being an obvious example, but where the manufacturers need to be looking is for something that will grab the imagination so that people will buy them because they want to buy them not necessarily because they need them.

 

The current apparent interest in the Clan is a case in point and I??™m pretty confident an Atlantic would sell far more than the much worthier Robinson 04. I??™ll also declare an obvious interest in Scottish locomotives; I currently have a couple of Black Fives and periodically have to remind myself that I don??™t really need a third. With a Fairburn and a Jinty for variety I have what I need, but wouldn??™t a Highland liveried Skye Bogie be nice, and how many others would go for one not because they need one but simply because it would be an attractive model? After all concentrating on a steam-driven North of Scotland hasn??™t stopped me indulging in a Santa Fe warbonnet liveried SD45 and other North American stuff simply because I like them, so conversely, would more people model Scottish steam if they had some decent Caledonian or North British locos dangled before their eyes?

 

So, yes its entirely possible to scratch around identifying that last remaining un-modelled Standard or to build a ???business case??? for a particular unsung locomotive, but I rather suspect that the fact of its being unsung is why it hasn??™t been modelled before and why Messrs Bachmann and Hornby are still more likely to go for something more exciting in the future ??“ if only they can decide what it is.

[Ravenser]

Caledonian

I??™m pretty confident an Atlantic would sell far more than the much worthier Robinson 04.

 

I doubt it. The ROD is a rather special case because 3 of the 4 Groups owned them, but an Atlantic would only really sell to those modelling part of one Group - and barring the small ex LBSC class they'd all gone by 1950 . The ROD can sell to the BR steam market - probably the largest single sector - and to the LNER, GW, and LMS - and to the Aussies and maybe even the French [Yes , I know it won't quite look right next to a Eureka HO AD60 class garrett, or on the front of a rake of HO "non-air" hoppers, but there aren't exactly any HO options , and in NSW terms they're a bit iconic , especially at the end of steam]

 

The heavy freight options for GW and LNER are a bit limited at present, so they meet a need

 

I'd suggest City of Truro is a better proposition than an Atlantic - simply on geographic and period spread

 

But it's interesting that we're discussing steam. From a 4mm D+E perspective , what's announced may well be all we'll get for some time. Except of course the missing big suburban tank - the SR one. It's called a Maunsell EMU....