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Dapol Class 21/29

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A couple more shots showing grille and bogie detail and the lower bodyside turn under which look excellent to me. Again, this is only an unmotorised class 29 "decorated sample" with, I'm told, tweaks still to be made, rather than the final production model.

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The colour shades used on this and the blue version look spot on imho.

 

My thanks to Dapol for the photo loan of the model.:good_mini:

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Ooh that looks nice. Not sure if the yellow vertical divide for 6112 at the corner is quiet right but I could be (probably) wrong.

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1 hour ago, Max Legroom said:

Ooh that looks nice. Not sure if the yellow vertical divide for 6112 at the corner is quiet right but I could be (probably) wrong.

In its final guise there was no "step" in the yellow end, the vertical part meeting the angle running down from the windscreen, but that was following a touch up in June 71; I'm not currently sure on appearance prior to that. 6112 was the last 29 recorded noted in traffic though, on a ballast train at Larbert 29/12/71, being withdrawn on the 31st.

 

Dapol stressed that the final version to hit the shops would be slightly tweaked from this one though.

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On 09/11/2019 at 23:52, Signaller69 said:

In its final guise there was no "step" in the yellow end, the vertical part meeting the angle running down from the windscreen, but that was following a touch up in June 71; I'm not currently sure on appearance prior to that. 6112 was the last 29 recorded noted in traffic though, on a ballast train at Larbert 29/12/71, being withdrawn on the 31st.

 

Dapol stressed that the final version to hit the shops would be slightly tweaked from this one though.

Thanks Martyn

 

Checking through a few books it looks like you are spot on! It's going to be a difficult choice deciding which version to go for!

 

Best wishes

 

Max

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On 09/11/2019 at 20:26, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I now feel an all over green NBL type 2 DE will make a good addition to the layout diesel fleet.

 

I had a look through the brdatabase allocation info for Type 2s and it seems that there was a right old menagerie at the southern end of the GN main line in 1959-60.  Presumably you already have EE (Class 23), BRCW (Class 26) and Brush (Class 30) locos in your collection?  Can you bring yourself to run a Derby Type 2 to represent the period after some of the others had been banished (NBL) or sadly lost (BRCW) to the Scottish Region?

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I do, I do, and naturally have a Derby type 2 (24). These attracted some comment in that they were specifically excluded from 'the test' which was the widened lines inner suburban services; rumoured to be because BR Derby didn't want it 'broken on the wheel' (look up mediaeval punishments). It was a remarkable thing that no diesel design could be found to fully replace the N2. The EE type 1 'thousand horse' (20) could do the traction job but had no carriage heating, and the choice fell on the Brush type 2, albeit with a significant loss in passenger capacity as they were too long to take a pair of the ultra-efficient Quad Arts.

 

Also in the menagerie, the dire BTH type 1 (15) and occasional visits from the ditto NBL type 1 (16) and unforgettably the rock, shake, rattle and roll of the often overheated Cravens DMUs (105). There were filled watering cans out on the platforms for the staff to top up the cooling systems of the latter in summer...

 

Never thought we would get the entire disaster collection RTR, garnished with the dreadful L1 'concrete mixer' : about the last steam model I thought to see, would have expected the N7 to get a model well ahead of it; but what do I know? What I do know is that all the models so far way outperform their prototypes, only Dapol now to produce something realistically mechanically dire...

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6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

the Brush type 2, albeit with a significant loss in passenger capacity as they were too long to take a pair of the ultra-efficient Quad Arts.

Does this mean the Quad-Arts no longer worked to Moorgate after the NBLs and BRCWs transferred away?

 

The Nim.

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14 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I do, I do, and naturally have a Derby type 2 (24). These attracted some comment in that they were specifically excluded from 'the test' which was the widened lines inner suburban services; rumoured to be because BR Derby didn't want it 'broken on the wheel' (look up mediaeval punishments). It was a remarkable thing that no diesel design could be found to fully replace the N2. The EE type 1 'thousand horse' (20) could do the traction job but had no carriage heating, and the choice fell on the Brush type 2, albeit with a significant loss in passenger capacity as they were too long to take a pair of the ultra-efficient Quad Arts.

 

Also in the menagerie, the dire BTH type 1 (15) and occasional visits from the ditto NBL type 1 (16) and unforgettably the rock, shake, rattle and roll of the often overheated Cravens DMUs (105). There were filled watering cans out on the platforms for the staff to top up the cooling systems of the latter in summer...

 

Never thought we would get the entire disaster collection RTR, garnished with the dreadful L1 'concrete mixer' : about the last steam model I thought to see, would have expected the N7 to get a model well ahead of it; but what do I know? What I do know is that all the models so far way outperform their prototypes, only Dapol now to produce something realistically mechanically dire...

Superbly put Mr C. , and I have found that all those same types managed to migrate around 150 miles north to the Nottingham suburban area for trials as well, (although this seems to have slipped by the observations of contemporary observers??!!).

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

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9 hours ago, Nimbus said:

Does this mean the Quad-Arts no longer worked to Moorgate after the NBLs and BRCWs transferred away?...

Annoyingly, I was just too young to appreciate this detail. Our journeys up to town were always to KX, and while steam operated if time allowed we would take a look at an N2 getting away with Quad Arts off the Hotel curve platform. I have no recollection of a diesel working Quad Arts in or out of 'the drain': I wasn't taken to see that!

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These samples look utterly superb. It’s been such a long wait since these models were first announced but it truly does look like ‘the best came last’ in terms of ScR diesel power of the Transition/Pre-TOPs era.

Only perhaps a Gloucester and Swindon InterCity DMU and NBL/Barclay 0-4-0 shunters are  missing for that era of Scottish Operation now.

I will enjoy these NBLs very much when they finally arrive.

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They do look very fine indeed.  Now they are almost to market, perhaps Dapol could develop an N gauge version and then my layout fleet would be (almost) complete.

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For those interested in KX suburban services, David Percival's Kings Cross Lineside 1954–84 is an excellent reference. I must say that there are very few photos of class 21s actually hauling trains (rather than being laid up idle). ISTR that DP says the class 24s were intended specification for cross-London freights via the Widened Lines, the Baby Deltics had been intended for this duty but were banned because of their exhaust fumes.

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Not being a sound man it doesn't really matter to me, but I assume that someone has done thier research for the DCC sound fitted versions of this loco.  For the life of me I cannot remember what the original MAN or Paxman engines sounded like!

Also I wonder how long it will be until someone properly motorises the roof mounted ventilators on the class 29 version, these very visibly rotated on the prototype.

 

Jim

 

 

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6 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said:

Not being a sound man it doesn't really matter to me, but I assume that someone has done thier research for the DCC sound fitted versions of this loco.  For the life of me I cannot remember what the original MAN or Paxman engines sounded like!

Also I wonder how long it will be until someone properly motorises the roof mounted ventilators on the class 29 version, these very visibly rotated on the prototype.

 

Jim

 

 

 

Hornby did moving roof fans on their 31,50 and class 56. They tended to get more flak than compliments. They stopped doing them now. 

 

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12 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

Hornby did moving roof fans on their 31,50 and class 56. They tended to get more flak than compliments. They stopped doing them now. 

 

 

Yes, but unless you are looking directly down from above the rotation of the fan on these models is not visible, the little ventilators spinning round on the 29s could be seen from the platform, they were rather like the Flettner ventilators that appear on the roof of police vans 

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3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Hornby did moving roof fans on their 31,50 and class 56. They tended to get more flak than compliments. They stopped doing them now. 

 

They did indeed get flak. Driven by rubber bands from the motor. Some felt that the rubber band interfered with the smooth running of the motor. Rubber is inclined to perish. I thought it a nice idea but the fans didn’t operate realistically. Now that Bachmann has introduced a servo motor (for the 90 pantograph) I think, if we’re lucky, that servo-operated fans linked to the cooler sounds might appear one day.

 

As for the 29s, I concur with luckymucklebackit. The roof ventilators would be just as prominent as, for example, rotating axleboxes on 59s and 66s but likely more so. Powering them would be difficult, though.

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9 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

Not being a sound man it doesn't really matter to me, but I assume that someone has done thier research for the DCC sound fitted versions of this loco.  For the life of me I cannot remember what the original MAN or Paxman engines sounded like!

Also I wonder how long it will be until someone properly motorises the roof mounted ventilators on the class 29 version, these very visibly rotated on the prototype.

 

Jim

 

 

I spoke to their sound engineer at Ally Pally and they have found a similarly powered engine in Ireland which they’re using for the sound recording. I can’t now remember whether that was for the 21 or 29 and they couldn’t remember which Irish engine they’d used. I’m slightly sceptical but looking forward the hearing it, and after all, nobody will be able to say categorically whether it’s right or wrong!

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I believe there’s also a Paxman at Bo’ness. Since the Valenta was derived from the Ventura there might be a similar sound to the HST but with less turbo screech.

Regarding the vents; Flettners are exactly what they are.

A fairly novel approach to engine room ventilation as it happens and never as far as I know repeated elsewhere.

 

Davy.

Edited by Mad McCann

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Yes I knew about that one, the genset had once been in the possession of my previous employer Aggreko, When they refurmished the engine and alternator Aggerko fitted an exhaust/silencer system that would have been totally different to the original, so would be a different sound.

 

Jim

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