Plymouth timetable in the late 60's & early 70's

[pirouets]

Does anyone out there have information regarding trains that ran in & out of Plymouth in the late 60's & early 70's? I a, building a layout based on the loops at Hemerdon in N gauge.

 

The information I have so far shows various express formations, but I have been unable to track down info on services such as

 

Local trains

Semi Fast trains

Different types of goods.

 

In particular I am interested in the types of loco & stock that made up the trains so that if I do not create a timetable, I can at least have the trains made up as correctly as possible.

 

I have Hymeks, Warships ,Westerns and Brush type 4s, which are the no brainers. What I am looking to nail down is what other classes did the western region have at that time, or what other loco's ventured down that far such as 24,25 & 31?

 

Your help is appreciated?

['CHARD]

Here's a bounce, if not much more, Steve.

 

Obviously you've taken into account Class 22 Yeah, I know that doesn't help much. Of the other classes you mention, the 25s and 31s were drafted-in to do the work previously the preserve of the Baby Warships (and to a lesser extent so far west, Hymeks). The 25s put in a fair amount of effort based at Laira, including the Class 2 traffic and lighter freights.

 

The 31s were familiar into and out of Exeter by the mid 70s but scarce as far down as Plymouth during your era, Bristol having the nearest allocation.

 

I'd say that a much more familiar class would be Peaks on inter-regionals. Not sure if these always ran through in substantial numbers, or only after inroads were made into the Warships. As for 24s, these would be a rarity as far south west as Hemerdon.

 

DMUs would also feature of course.

[phixer64]

hiya Steve,

 

Been using the site for a while now, but still haven't posted my own stuff.

Having been living in Plympton, in 74-82.My local place to spot was Tavistock Jct. Then, from time to to used to go up the start of the Hemerdon incline.

I must have some of my old records somewhere, but, sounds like this would be not for your era/date.

 

I remember class 31 being used on the Plymouth-Bristol parcels. 25 were used on local freights, and before the 125s came in 45/46/47 were on the inter regional. 50's being used on the Plym-Padd.

Occassionally, the lads etc, would stay and the watch Edin-Plym arrive at night, because it sometimes produced a rarer Duff.

 

As i said before, I'll try and find my old books..... but being nearly 30 years previous, it might be a job.

 

All the best, only the model.... Make sure you have a 1000 on there.

 

Happy New Year to all RMWebbers

[Rugd1022]

Hi Steve,

 

Just to add, Laira received it's first allocation of 25s in October '71 (replacing the last few 22s, the last four of these going on New Years Day '72) and lost them in October 1980. About half of the entire stud of 46s were allocated to Laira through the 70s too. I think the first 50 to arrive at Laira was sometime in 1973, and 50 027 was sent to Penzance for crew training in April '74.

 

I have a photo somewhere of a pair of 24s on Exeter shed circa 1974 / 75, but whether they got as far as Plymouth is debatable!

 

Hope that helps

 

Nidge

[phixer64]

24142 came to Laira in 1978, as renumbered TDB968009

[Kris]

Do you have the working timetables for the late 60's / early 70's on the Plymouth to Exeter section? Won't help you with the loco classes but might help with a general pattern of trains. If you wanted to go back a little earlier at any point in the future there is a book (I'm not near my personal library at the moment so I can't give you the title) which recorded all the loco's used and the trains that they hauled (and how late they were - very in most cases) This was based on the recordings of a summer saturday in 1957.

[TheSignalEngineer]

If you wanted to go back a little earlier at any point in the future there is a book (I'm not near my personal library at the moment so I can't give you the title) which recorded all the loco's used and the trains that they hauled (and how late they were - very in most cases) This was based on the recordings of a summer saturday in 1957.

 

IIRC 1957 details were in "Summer Saturdays in the West"

 

I have just looked at my photo index. On one visit in summer 1967 around Plymouth I photographed 8 Westerns, 6 D800's and 1 D63xx. On a similar visit in 1971 the same classes were present plus 1 Class 45, and haulage by a Class 47. I have some cine film in the same era so I will see what that has as well, but I would think the same locos will appear.

[Kris]

IIRC 1957 details were in "Summer Saturdays in the West"

 

 

That sounds about right, I'll remind myself when I get my hands on the book in a couple of days time unless someone else does first.

[Mallard60022]

I'm sure if you contacted R A Watson (Wally) of this Parish he could furnish you with all the gen.

Sincerely 36E

[Peter Kazmierczak]

For the late 1960s, the % might be around:

 

Cl.22 = 10%

Cl.35 = 5%

Cl.42 = 35%

Cl.43 = 10%

Cl.47 = 10% (the only diesel-electric type)

Cl.52 = 30%

[Flood]

The other guys seem to have covered the locos pretty well, I certainly agree with Western Sunset's %s for the late '60s/early '70s.

 

Coaching stock used was virtually solid Mk1s. The Western did have some vacuum braked Mk2 TSOs but the vast majority was Mk1 vacuum braked stock. The West of England lines didn't get air braked Mk2 stock until about 1972 and that was only on the Golden Hind and Cornish Riviera. The other services didn't start to change over until stock was cascaded from the Bristol and South Wales services in 1973.

 

Local services were Class 116 (yes, Laira did have some), 118, 119 and 120 DMUs.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I agree with Flood re-coaching stock. No Mk2s until the 1970s - they might've appeared in 1971.

 

Also in the late 1960s there were still some pre-nationalisation types to be seen, especially ex-LMS Stanier stock in the summer.

[pirouets]

Thanks everyone. Really useful.

 

Looks like my key challenges will be a class 22 and the DMU's which is not as bad as I thought it might be. Need to look at options for the class 22 as I know Worsley Works do an etching and side frames, but the DMUs are not out so for now 108s will have to do.

 

On the subject of actual working timetables I have tried a few railway book sellars but no luck so far.

 

Should I venture to a blue era around Autumn 73, then I can squeeze in the 25's and 46's which will add to this, but as that all needs buying i'll play with my late 60's green for now.

[Flood]

I've had a quick look on ebay and there's nothing between 1960 and 1972. The other place I look is here but although a 1969 to 1970 Exeter timetable is listed it has already been sold.

 

Apart from keeping an eye on these and other internet sources the only other option would be the Public Record Office at Kew. I've looked at timetables for a number of regions in the past here. You can't take them away but you can photocopy them - a bit expensive though.

[pirouets]

Thanks Flood. Kew is just up the M4 for me. Not sure when but will certainly drop them a line to find out what they have.

[Flood]

I'll give you a head start.

 

Western Region working timetables are under reference RAIL921, below is the page for the start of the 1969 timetables. Taunton to Tavistock Junction is section 7 i.e. RAIL921/179, Tavistock Junction to Penzance was section 8.

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=11896&GPE=False&DOWN=TRUE&MARKER=164000&MARKERSCN

 

Just use the previous or next arrows for earlier or later ones. They tend to tell you give you a better description of which section is which every few pages.

 

You can request documents for a certain day even without a reader's card but you'll need to apply for the card when you get there before you can look at anything. There is a section on the website about applying for reader's cards, what you can take into the library area etc.

 

Have fun!

[R A Watson]

I'm sure if you contacted R A Watson (Wally) of this Parish he could furnish you with all the gen.

Sincerely 36E

This is a little after you and I were spotting at Laira when the steam shed was still standing Phil!

By this time I was more involved driving preserved ex Western National and Plymouth Corporation buses around the country.

 

But I suggest if you google for the Bernard Mills photo collection, or even Audrey (his wife) Mills, they were very busy light trapping then, not always together, and did cover this period in depth.

 

The other possible lead is to contact the Plymouth Railway Circle as Bob (Cyril) Lord was writiing very comprehensive logs for the P R C Magazine.

 

H T H Wally

[pirouets]

Again my thanks for the info and guidance. Already had a flick through the fototopic sites which then led to some great pictures on Classic Traction Images. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Rivercider]

Regarding the make of of freight trains for those years, I have had a quick look through some of my books:-

The heyday of the Warships - Hugh Day

Diesel Hydraulics in the West Country - Derek Huntriss & Peter Gray

Diesel Days Devon & Cornwall - John Vaughan

amongst others

 

Mixed freight trains on the up road will contain lots of sheeted wooden highfits (presumably loaded clay traffic amongst others)

lots of van fits, some wooden containers on conflats or in highfits, a few empty 16t minerals, the odd presflo.

 

Mixed freights in the down direction most of the highfits are empty clay wagons, but some sheeted will be loaded with other traffic,

the 16t mins will be loaded with coal. There will be containers and lots of vanfits.

There also odd wagons conveying cable drums, or bogie bolsters loaded with agricultural(?) equipment.

Some trains have one or two tank cars, or ferry vans (clay again to/from cornwall?)

.

There are the milk trains to and from St Erth.

Parcel/van trains composed of a right mixture of bogie/4 wheel/blue spot vans.

 

I'm not sure when the Stoke on Trent clayliner 7M52/7V53 started running, I have pictures from 1974, loaded/sheeted highfits on the up, empty coming back.

 

Some block trains composed entirely of vanfits, possibly fertiliser ex ICI Severnside, or sugar beet pulp from East Anglia.

In fact this was the thing that struck me most, vanfits, lots of them, on most trains.

 

hope this helps

 

cheers

[Rugd1022]

The St Blazey - Stoke 'Clayliner' began running in 1967 (possibly August but I might be wrong on that), with a Type 4 as the booked motive power. The very first train was hauled by D1670 'Mammoth' and carried what looked like a hand painted headboard. Later on the headcodes changed to 6M55 and 6V53.

 

HTH

 

Nidge

[BB17005]

Railway World Annual 1977 has a picture of Class 46 No. 143 on parcels at Plymouth North Road 01/09/1970.

[TheSignalEngineer]

IIRC 1957 details were in "Summer Saturdays in the West"

 

I have just looked at my photo index. On one visit in summer 1967 around Plymouth I photographed 8 Westerns, 6 D800's and 1 D63xx. On a similar visit in 1971 the same classes were present plus 1 Class 45, and haulage by a Class 47. I have some cine film in the same era so I will see what that has as well, but I would think the same locos will appear.

Rolling stock was a mixture of maroon and blue/grey Mk1's on both visits, with one notable exception of maroon Stanier M13034M behind blue Warship D849 in 1967.

 

In 1971 the Class 45 was No. 53, working the Up Cornishman. IIRC this was a Western working from Penzance to Plymouth, the 45 then coming on the front with the Plymouth portion which included the Restaurant Car.

 

Split-box D6319 appears at Plymouth in 1971, in green SYP livery carrying headcode 9Z01, the first two vehicles being 12T box vans.

[Rivercider]

Having looked through my books etc, I have found the WTT section PC (mandatory) and section PH (conditional)

for 3 May 1976 - 1 May 1977 for Taunton - Penzance.

A bit outside your timescale? I could list up the freight/parcels trains if its any use to you?

 

cheers

[pirouets]

Man this feels good. The more info I get the more I want so thanks for the info.

 

Clay trains in N will be a challenge as the wagons look like they will need to be built. With that will be the challenge of covered wagons that are loaded.

[Rivercider]

Freight & parcel trains from the 1976/77 WTT, with Hemerdon passing times for weekdays

 

DOWN

 

Mandatory

 

7B30 18.45 Avonmouth - Truro 01.23

4B16 20.28 Padd - Penzance Parcels 01.43

6B19 19.18 Acton - St Erth milk etys 02.12

7B34 01.55 Riverside - St.Blazey 03.13

7B14 00.35 STJ - Plymouth Friary 05.41

4V03 21.20 Birmingham Curzon St - Plymouth Parcels 06.13

4V66 20.52 Bradford - Plymouth Parcels 07.40

7B06 06.50 Riverside - Friary 08.37

7B18 03.45 STJ - Friary 09.46

6V53 04.27 Stoke-on-Trent - St.Blazey 17.57 (MO) 17.43 (MX)

4B10 15.57 Bristol TM - Plymouth parcels 19.51

 

Conditional

 

6B19 19.30 SUN Swindon - St.Erth milk etys 01.07 MO

6V35 16.30 SUN Ince & Elton - Truro 03.21 MO

6B44 23.25 MX Westbury - Truro 03.28 MO 04.05 - 04.38 MX

6V35 18.28 WO Ince & Elto - Truro 05.32 - 05.50

6V77 22.58 MTTHO Fawley - Friary 06.40

6V06 08.05 WO Stoke on Trent - St Blazey 22.02

 

 

UP

 

Mandatory

 

7B64 09.25 FO Friary - Riverside 09.46 - 10.20

7B64 12.55 FX Friary - Riverside 13.14

4M05 12.45 Penzance - Crewe parcels & perishables 16.18

4B19 17.20 Plymouth - Bristol TM parcels & perishables 17.31

7B43 18.44 Friary - Riverside 19.03

4A13 151.22 Penzance - Paddington parcels & perishables 19.16

6A21 16.40 St Erth - Acton milk 19.27

6M55 18.05 St Blazey - Stoke -on-Trent 19.49

7E19 19.20 St Blazey - Temple Mills 21.20

7B15 20.45 Truro - Riverside 23.30

7M86 22.05 St.Blazey - Carlisle 23.41

 

Conditional

 

6M32 00.37 WO St.Blazey - Longport 02.09

6O94 08.35 MTTHO Friary - Fawley 08.56

6M54 15.30 WO Friary - Ince & Elton 15.51

6M44 15.10 MO Truro - Ince & Elton 18.51

6O42 18.40 THO St Austell - Sittingbourne20.26

 

There's also a lot of ECS moves particularly Laira - Newton Abbot & rtn

 

hope this helps you or anyone else interested in the WR freight scene back then.

 

cheers