Highland Baby Sulzers

['CHARD]

Finding this absolute gem on RailScot, and realising how while it ticks about 400 boxes for me it doesn't really fit any existing thread that's running, I thought I'd create this one. So, if you like your Sulzers on 8 wheels, with Moggy Minor headlamps and getting upto things impossible if not illegal in the 21st Century, tune in for some thought-provoking and inspirational material. Both real and model (because I happen to know of several projects underway ATM to recreate these beauties).

Start by having a look at this pretty pair:

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=33313

That's her, D5116 in early Blue (eBFYE) - Waverley Route stalwart. And look, there are those unusual black departmental LHCS we've seen before on the Class 29 topic. But look harder...

What is that unusual bun-truck in blue & grey???

And one for my other pet main line, the Edinburgh - Perth Direct. Given the date, has this travelled via Glenfarg?
EDIT: The Glenfarg line had been closed three months and one week when the photo was taken. Thus the ensemble has come via the LNWWR*

* Long 'n' wasteful way roond

Edited December 6, 2015 by 'CHARD

[keefer]

it's a dia.30 griddle car. there were 3 of these, not sure if ScR only had one or if it ended up with all three.

have seen a good few pics of the dia.31 griddles which had a slightly different internal/window arrangement.

(bob-65b would likely be the man to ask about numbers etc.)

 

(i think there was a thread on the old RMWeb about building these, can't remember if it was bob or not)

 

both types seem to have been a stalwart on longer distance ScR internal services, offering more choice food and drink wise over an RMB (i.e. hot food), but still aimed at 'casual' walk-up custom, as opposed to the full dining experience of an RB

 

EDIT: a pic from RCAHMS mention in a thread about perth station

 

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/699018/

[Etched Pixels]

Wonderful - I've been trying to find a photo of 5116 in blue with steps to see if the token catcher was still fitted !

[Trevor H]

it's a dia.30 griddle car. there were 3 of these, not sure if ScR only had one or if it ended up with all three.

have seen a good few pics of the dia.31 griddles which had a slightly different internal/window arrangement.

(bob-65b would likely be the man to ask about numbers etc.)

 

(i think there was a thread on the old RMWeb about building these, can't remember if it was bob or not)

 

both types seem to have been a stalwart on longer distance ScR internal services, offering more choice food and drink wise over an RMB (i.e. hot food), but still aimed at 'casual' walk-up custom, as opposed to the full dining experience of an RB

 

EDIT: a pic from RCAHMS mention in a thread about perth station

 

http://canmore.rcahm...mages/l/699018/

 

A bit later in date, but taken From the 1976 RCTS coaching stock book.

 

GriddleCar (7), RE

Int. 1960. Seats 12 Buffet, 14 Bar. (1103-5 have 4more, 1106 has 6 less).

VB. SH. Bogies 1100-2 CW, 1103-5 B5, 1106 B4/5. LGC. 38-40T

 

Sc1100, Sc1101, E1102, Sc1103, Sc1104, Sc1105, E1106

 

1102 has AB, EH and PA. 1106 has DH,PHV.

 

 

Nice thread by the way Chard, lets hope it takes off. Who can resist a bit of Scottish Sulzer

[keefer]

thanks for the info trevor

 

incidentally

1100-2 = dia.30 griddle car - lot 30637, 9/1960 (new)

1103-5 = dia.31 griddle car - no new lot no., 1965 (converted from dia.16 RF)

1106 = dia.32 booth car - lot 30783, 4/1968, (new?)

 

info from parkin mk1 book

 

(1106 would seem to be the missing link between the griddles and RBs, in that it catered for sit-down meals, albeit with the intention of quick turnover)

['CHARD]

Nice thread by the way Chard, lets hope it takes off. Who can resist a bit of Scottish Sulzer

 

Oh I think we can be fairly upbeat about its prospects. I'll be posting some thought-provoking guff about the modelling potential - and I know of at least six locos presently in progress via rather different means to similar ends. Then, with a little help from Derby Sulzers and RailScot sites I'll dial-in some prototype naughtiness too.

 

I doubt we'll see anything from Bachmann, and if we do from the current stable it will no doubt be as compromised as its progenitor(s), so while there's obviously considerable interest in the Highland Baby Sulzers let's give it a wee go.

 

And why not EDIT these in:

5118 leads a pair at Perth - notice treatment of yellow on the buffer beam/ fairing - squared-off with black by the look of it

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=32372

 

how I remember them, in 1974 - very plain now the doors are fully welded, and there's even a Royal Mail Morris Minor van in shot, wonder if it's still got its headlights?

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=28399

 

this machine looks to have an extra double-arrow on the nearest cab door

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=26900

 

Latterday TOPS action: Inverness machine, boiler water hatches long since welded up, five-slot grille cover in evidence and full set of yellow mini ploughs

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=18281

 

and a final edit for now, this lovely detail so beloved of the Waverley Route thread and my WR Diesel blog, with acknowledgement to Derby Sulzers', this abridged 1968 chronology entry:

 

"Timetable changes (sic) beginning in May brought Inverness based Class 24’s to the Waverley route, possibly on layovers between trips from the Highland capital. One of the diagrams involved the 07.06 ex-Edinburgh, 13.00 ex-Carlisle, 17.54 ex-Edinburgh and the next day's 09.20 ex-Carlisle. Most times a single machine sufficed, noted were D5125 (8th), D5122 (9th) and D5115 (10th & 11th). However D5128 & D5071 (64B) double headed on May 24th."

And why, you ask, is that of interest? I'll tell you. May '68 saw diagram changes for 60A's Baby Sulzers after the closure of the Moray Coast lines. One of the wanderers as can be seen was D5122, which would be destroyed four months later on September 9th at Castlecary. And which I am in the process of commemorating.

['CHARD]

Wonderful - I've been trying to find a photo of 5116 in blue with steps to see if the token catcher was still fitted !

 

On that note, does train engine 5126 have a token in place, perhaps for the Bridge of Earn section, or are my eyes deceiving? Surely that would be surrendered before Hilton Jct....

[Jamie]

Is it not that the lead loco has the catcher proper removed, just the mounting points (bits of angle or something) remaining, whilst the second loco retains the catcher?

[Etched Pixels]

Is it not that the lead loco has the catcher proper removed, just the mounting points (bits of angle or something) remaining, whilst the second loco retains the catcher?

 

I think you are right (could do with a clearer photo).. poo that's going to much harder to model 8)

[BrushVeteran]

I think you are right (could do with a clearer photo).. poo that's going to much harder to model 8)

You may have seen these before but just in case I am putting them on in case it is any help. The machine with the arrows on the cab doors ib D5125 by the way.

[BrushVeteran]

You may have seen these before but just in case I am putting them on in case it is any help. The machine with the arrows on the cab doors ib D5125 by the way.

Also another

[Guest stuartp]

Is it not that the lead loco has the catcher proper removed, just the mounting points (bits of angle or something) remaining, whilst the second loco retains the catcher?

 

I concur. The tablet should be retrieved by the driver into the safety of the cab as soon as possible, apart from anything else he needs to check it to make sure he's been given the right one. More than one signalman has got them mixed up. Most of the drivers I've spoken to who have worked ETB lines leave them fairly prominently on the desk to remind themselves they've got them.

 

Many years ago, when I was young and foolish and the only way to get ScR Type 2s was to start with a Lima 33 or Hornby 25 and a tube of Milliput, a mate of mine asked me if he should look out for anything for me at a swapmeet he was attending. Yes please says I, as many 33s, 25s and 29s as you can find, but don't pay more than a tenner each for them. I figured he might find one or two at that price, maybe even a runner if I was lucky. He came back with 4 of each and cost me an absolute fortune ! I finished a couple of each in green, but the more I see of pics like these the more I'm tempted to fish the others out of the loft and break out the Milliput and Rail Blue spraycan...

[Pennine MC]

The machine with the arrows on the cab doors ib D5125 by the way.

Not sure that's the same one Grahame - the one in Chard's link also has a central bodyside arrow. I would guess that it's a 'standard' (sic) blue one that's acquired a door off another, possibly the early withdrawal 5068 which was an early repaint with arrows on the doors

['CHARD]

Not sure that's the same one Grahame - the one in Chard's link also has a central bodyside arrow. I would guess that it's a 'standard' (sic) blue one that's acquired a door off another, possibly the early withdrawal 5068 which was an early repaint with arrows on the doors

 

The dispersal of D5068's body parts is massively germane to this, as we know. Who would have known D5114 to D5132 could ever have been this legendary, because those girls simply ARE

[Guest Max Stafford]

Did I hear somebody say that you can get nice window etches for these locos from somewhere now?

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

One needs no excuse for linking these, when the ingredients are D5131, and a working of Legend

 

 

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=31025

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=31508

 

I think the impromptu headcode solution adds to the atmosphere, would look great modelled well...

[Guest Max Stafford]

I know where the headboard lives too. It does still exist!

 

Dave.

['CHARD]

I know where the headboard lives too. It does still exist!

 

 

I can make an educated guess

 

A great shame that none of the nineteen escaped the attentions of Doncaster's axemen though (excepting the unlucky trio 5114, 5122 (ibid) and legend-maker 5131 seen off at St Rollox).

 

 

Now, for anyone who's watching, here's Part 1 of a potted history of the girls:

 

D5114 built Derby allocated 61A 23/4/60, reallox 60A later that month. Withdrawn 9/10/72 pre-TOPS (one of three not to receive 241XX numbers). Cut Glasgow 22/10/73.

D5115 61A 30/4/60, reallox 60A 5/60, 61A 4/61, 60A 5/61, 24115 7/74, HA 10/75 Wdn 31/12/76 although officially stored 22/10/76, then stored MH 1/77 - 5/77, to Doncaster 4/5/77 and cut 9/6/77.

D5116 61A 7/5/60, 60A 5/60, 66A 12/60, 60A 5/61, 24116 4/74, HA 10/75, Wdn 15/9/76, stored PO 9/76 - 5/77, cut Doncaster 7/77.

D5117 60A 14/5/60, 65A 11/60, 60A 5/61, 24117 7/74, HA 11/75, stored 9/1/76, Wdn 2/2/76, stored Glasgow Works 2/76 - 4/76, to Doncaster 2/5/76, cut 1/77.

D5118 60A 21/5/60, 24118 7/74, HA 10/75, stored MH 13/10/76, Wdn 31/12/76, to Doncaster 3/77, cut 5/77.

D5119 60A 28/5/60, 24119 3/74, HA 11/75, stored 4/76, Wdn 18/7/76, to Doncaster 3/77, cut 5/77.

D5120 60A 4/6/60, 24120 7/74, HA 10/75, stored 7/10/76, Wdn 31/12/76, stored MH 1/77 - 6/77, to Doncaster 15/6/77, cut 7/77.

D5121 60A 11/6/60, 24121 5/74, HA 10/75, stored 22/10/76 and immediately reinstated to work that day's 1A53 17.12 Glasgow - Ayr, remained on stock until Wdn 31/12/76, stored PO 1/77 - 11/77, Carlisle (location not known) 11/77 - 2/78, to Doncaster 14/2/78 - Happy Valentine's Day 24121, cut 5/78.

 

More later, when I've done some analysis....

 

 

['CHARD]

The tragic history of D5122

 

New to 60A on 18/6/60, as Derby continued to deliver a new Baby Sulzer to the Highland capital every week, this loco remained at Inverness for its entire eight year, sadly cut short career. Thanks to Derby Sulzers and HMSO for the paraphrased and abridged summary that follows.

 

On September 9th 1968 a sequence of events resulted in D5122 being the first 60A Class 24 casualty. On that morning the Glasgow - Edinburgh mainline was incurring delays due to a track circuit fault at Castlecary. The 08.46 Glasgow - Edinburgh six car DMU had come to a stand under the protection of signals at the site of the closed Castlecary station. Closely following it was green liveried, headlight equipped Class 24 D5122 running light engine from Glasgow to Perth, having just worked the 07.20 Perth - Glasgow. A number of operating infractions occurred, principally between the train crew and the signalman at Greenhill Upper, but it would be the failure to follow exactly Rule 55g that led to the rear-end collision. Eye witnesses estimated the speed of the Class 24 to have been about 40mph. To quote the HMSO Accident Report:

 

"The diesel locomotive was extensively damaged by the collision and subsequent fire, the cab at the No2 end, which was leading, was completely demolished and together with the boiler compartment behind it forced back against the engine room bulkhead. The main frames were broken and distorted and the engine and boiler room bulkheads damaged. The whole of the driving controls, electrical wiring and fittings at the No2 end were completely destroyed. Both the leading wheels of the locomotive and one pair on the rear bogie of the power car were derailed towards the cess, but a small portion of the twisted panelling from the locomotive cab extended foul of the Down line".

 

D5122's crew were killed, several passengers in the rear power car were injured, actions by the guard helped to minimize casualties. Ten minutes after the impact fire broke out in the wreckage, the leading five cars were separated from the sixth and driven clear, at about the time that emergency services arrived. On the westbound (Down) line the 08.30 Edinburgh - Glasgow DMU appeared on the scene moments after the collision, sustaining minor scrape damage from the locomotive cab fouling the line. After drawing forward to Dullatur box to report the collision the DMU continued on its journey. The permanant way sustained only minor damage, once the vehicles had been towed away the lines was re-opened by early afternoon (Network Rail to note!). Fire damaged blue & grey liveried SC79092 and the diesel locomotive were removed to Bonnybridge sidings, with the latter moving on to Eastfield on September 24th being withdrawn that same month. By early October the machine had reached Glasgow Works for stripping. This was the second of the Class 24's to be withdrawn, though it would linger in a heavily stripped state at Glasgow Works until finally broken up in March 1971. R.I.P.

 

['CHARD]

Third and last part of the synopsis. For now...

 

D5123 new to 60A 25/6/60, 24123 4/74, HA 10/75, stored PO 6/76, Wdn 18/7/76, to Doncaster 4/77 and cut 8/77.

D5124 60A 2/7/60, 24124 4/74, HA 11/75, stored 7/76, Wdn 1/12/76, to MH 1/77, Doncaster 4/5/77, cut 25/5/77.

D5125 60A 14/7/60, 24125 4/74, HA 10/75, stored 11/75, to MH 1/76, Wdn 27/3/76, to Doncaster TMD 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 8/77.

EDIT: a later photo link in this thread shows 24125 at Carstairs following withdrawal (minus a buffer) so the above details may be incomplete

D5126 60A 23/7/60, 24126 7/74, HA 10/75, stored MH 12/75, Wdn 2/2/76, to DR 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 8/77.

D5127 60A 30/7/60, 24127 10/74, HA 11/75, stored 18/12/75, Wdn 2/2/76, to DR 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 4/77.

D5128 60A 13/8/60, 24128 5/74, HA 10/75, stored 5/76, Wdn 18/7/76, to Carstairs 8/77, York 9/77, Doncaster 9/77, cut 10/77.

D5129 60A 27/8/60, 24129 4/74, HA 11/75, stored MH 11/10/76, Wdn 31/12/76, Doncaster 3/77, cut 4/77.

D5130 60A 3/9/60, 24130 4/74, HA 11/75, stored 6/10/76, Wdn 1/12/76, to MH 1/77, Doncaster 15/6/77, cut 9/77.

D5131 (Legend) 60A 17/9/60, to St Rollox 6/71 after collision at Inverness TMD with D6855, Wdn 11/9/71, cut 2/72.

D5132 60A 23/9/60, 24132 10/74, stored 10/75 at Eastfield, Wdn 2/2/76, to St Rollox then Doncaster by 6/2/76, cut 3/76 - the only TOPS Highland Baby Sulzer to be culled whilst still allocated to Inverness and never reallocated to Haymarket.

 

Next, principal diagrams for the HBS... That's where I throw out some bait and you eager Sulzerists fill in the gaps....

['CHARD]

Great work there Bob. My usual round of questions and observations follows.

 

The first Kyle mixed train shot: the open wagon behind the loco looks like a High Steel, but behind that looks uncannily like an LMS 50ft BG in blue and grey, a relative rarity I'd say.

 

The Wick pic, there looks to be another vintage coach pensioned-off to the Engineers in the siding to the right.. I like the way the DCE painted ex-LHCS in Service Black just like a humble ballast wagon.

 

And the last shot of Legend D5131 shows her in GSYP in summer '68 when she could just as well have been plying her trade across the WR, yet by the time she powers the WR Farewell in Jan '69 she's emerged rersplendent in BFYE from a paintshop visit. Tricky knowing what condition to go for - I'm probably sticking to my original GSYP idea (mainly because I've now procured the donor body in green deliberately). I'm sure in ratio terms 2:1 GSYP:BFYE would have been about right in the second half of '68.

[Etched Pixels]

Yes - that's one I've seen of 5116 which has token catcher but had the steps plated. Curiously the original picture at the start of thread has steps not plated, so at some point between April and December 1970 someone put the token catcher back together and did the steps. Curiouser and curiouser..

 

Alan

[South of 1E]

Third and last part of the synopsis. For now...

 

D5123 new to 60A 25/6/60, 24123 4/74, HA 10/75, stored PO 6/76, Wdn 18/7/76, to Doncaster 4/77 and cut 8/77.

D5124 60A 2/7/60, 24124 4/74, HA 11/75, stored 7/76, Wdn 1/12/76, to MH 1/77, Doncaster 4/5/77, cut 25/5/77.

D5125 60A 14/7/60, 24125 4/74, HA 10/75, stored 11/75, to MH 1/76, Wdn 27/3/76, to Doncaster TMD 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 8/77.

D5126 60A 23/7/60, 24126 7/74, HA 10/75, stored MH 12/75, Wdn 2/2/76, to DR 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 8/77.

D5127 60A 30/7/60, 24127 10/74, HA 11/75, stored 18/12/75, Wdn 2/2/76, to DR 5/76, Works 12/76, cut 4/77.

D5128 60A 13/8/60, 24128 5/74, HA 10/75, stored 5/76, Wdn 18/7/76, to Carstairs 8/77, York 9/77, Doncaster 9/77, cut 10/77.

D5129 60A 27/8/60, 24129 4/74, HA 11/75, stored MH 11/10/76, Wdn 31/12/76, Doncaster 3/77, cut 4/77.

D5130 60A 3/9/60, 24130 4/74, HA 11/75, stored 6/10/76, Wdn 1/12/76, to MH 1/77, Doncaster 15/6/77, cut 9/77.

D5131 (Legend) 60A 17/9/60, to St Rollox 6/71 after collision at Inverness TMD, Wdn 11/9/71, cut 2/72.

D5132 60A 23/9/60, 24132 10/74, stored 10/75, Wdn 2/2/76, to St Rollox then Doncaster by 6/2/76, cut 3/76 - the only TOPS Highland Baby Sulzer to be culled whilst still at Inverness and never reallocated to Haymarket.

 

Next, principal diagrams for the HBS... That's where I throw out some bait and you eager Sulzerists fill in the gaps....

 

Fascinating gen above, Six Bells Jn for March 25th 1967 has details of a "Grand Scottish tour" which included the Waverly route and a trio on load 18 Aviemore - Perth with the long lost 5122/5070/5127 as the power...Must have sounded good over Drumochter. In the late 70's the "skinhead" Scottish baby Sulzers did a fair bit of highland action too..

 

cheers

 

NR

 

www.leightonlogs.org

[Bob Reid]

Well Chard, for your D5131 'Legend' I'll raise you with D5125 'Hero'

 

Almost 8 weeks shuttling back and forward between Kyle and Strathcarron, stuck the wrong side of a landslide........

 

To quote the DerbySulzers entry;

 

 

Early November found major highway improvements being made to the A890 between the junction of the A896 at Strathcarron and Stromeferry. Just west of Strathcarron rail and road run alongside Loch Carron hemmed in by the loch and a cliff. It is believed the contractors improvements loosened the rock formation causing a landslide that severed the line trapping 5125 and a set of coaches on the Kyle side of the blockage. This equipment was used to operate a temporary service west of the landslide. On January 5th 1970 in a delicate move over temporary track using a set of wagons the Type 2 was gingerly retrieved from its isolation, with its place being taken by another. To mitigate this landslide problem the line would remain closed whilst a concrete avalanche style shelter was constructed to provide protection for both railway & road. During construction of the shelter a temporary track was laid on the loch side of the shelter. Through services were restored on March 4th though construction expected to be completed by April 1970 actually ran over to July.

 

Here, courtesy of the GNSRA site is D5125 in happier days

['CHARD]

RailPhoto Archive has more of these Inverness puppies than you can shake a stick at

5132

 

No Far North headlamps at this Georgemas juncture. Yet she's got the five-slat boiler plate.

 

These are awesome finds, by the way.