Pennine MC Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Here's an interesting shot of 24132, probably at her final resting place. http://i46.photobuck...2-22Feb1976.jpg Where have the headlights gone? Would they have bothered sealing up the holes if it was (and we know it WAS) going for scrap, Hard to tell for definite from that shot, but some machines had the holes plated quite neatly (with round plate rather than just square patches over); I suspect that's one of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 How come we reverted to the HBS cab roof treatment for this, the last 24, seen here at Dunfermline? Pre Red Bull, I suppose... http://www.derbysulzers.com/24150dun.jpg No apologies for this inclusion, I spent the long hot summer of '76 in Fife, train watching but (to my eternal bemusement) not bothering to record all numbers... Dunfermline was a favourite spot, and to think this machine was slogging it out right to the end of ScR 24 operations has reblown my mind.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 How come we reverted to the HBS cab roof treatment for this, the last 24, seen here at Dunfermline? Pre Red Bull, I suppose... http://www.derbysulz...om/24150dun.jpg It wasn't uniquely a thing of the Inverness allocated Derby Type 2s (D5114-D5132) though Chard - being used from 114 right through to 150 and on to the first 25 25s...... (D5114-5175) Unless I'm not spotting something you've seen? (cept' all those oddities that crept in over the years)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 It wasn't uniquely a thing of the Inverness allocated Derby Type 2s (D5114-D5132) though Chard - being used from 114 right through to 150 and on to the first 25 25s...... (D5114-5175) Unless I'm not spotting something you've seen? (cept' all those oddities that crept in over the years)! It was a propos of the other pic of collision-damaged 24147 at ML with wings. Perhaps inaccurately, I've formed the impression over the years that in the batch D5133 - D5150 there were more winglets than not, then reverting to the mohican style (I like that, compared with skinhead!) on the 25/0s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It was a propos of the other pic of collision-damaged 24147 at ML with wings. Perhaps inaccurately, I've formed the impression over the years that in the batch D5133 - D5150 there were more winglets than not, then reverting to the mohican style (I like that, compared with skinhead!) on the 25/0s. Fair enough Chard. The wings or not subject would probably be a whole topic of it's own! I'd hate to be that RTR manufacturer that tries to model one of that batch - correctly! I thought maybe you were bringing up D5127 (24127) which apart from being very shy on the photograph front, allegedly had the 'as built' box at one end, and winged at the other - both the available photo's that've come up so far only clearly show the No.1 end! Or maybe this boy here 24055 with a skinhead 'as built' No.2 end, and an HBS (ex D5114 apparently) box at the No.1! http://www.flickr.co...N07/4997156652/ count the headboxes on this lot at Crewe So why is D5127 (24127) so camera shy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Seemingly 24133, 24134, 24147 and 24148 had the winglets on one or both ends (cue research into the accident and collision damage records). I reckon it was the consecutive numbers that fooled me into thinking there was something consistent going on. Now I read that 25/1 and 25/2 or 25/3 have different wings, with flush-to-roof horns, or lipped/ shadowline mouldings. But that's for a cut'n'carve blog somewhere else. As for 24127, we're reliant on contributors to come through with a shot taken of her 'B'-end. Ahem. EDIT: see post 125, last link. 24127 has got wings at No.2 end !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I know it's kind of straying off the topic Chard however you maybe want to expand the thread and re-title it to include the "last of the Mohicans (Exordium and Terminus)" given how interesting these sub-classes are. I can't let this excellent photograph from the collection of Robert Carroll go without mention. http://www.flickr.co...96245/lightbox/ A mohican with flared trousers! Nor itself; 25-25 http://www.flickr.co...dle/4348092498/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Class 24's were responsible for reviving my interest in BR. They were crud when new, but for some reason looked cute by the mid 1970's... The winglet and original roof boxes on 24133 at Abergele in 1977.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Class 24's were responsible for reviving my interest in BR. They were crud when new, but for some reason looked cute by the mid 1970's... Great photo Larry! As you say there was something about them. Despite the failings they were a BR workhorse (despite half the cab being plastered in a mix of gaffer tape - and the Eastfield speciality - silicone sealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The men at Llandudno Junction thought very highly of the Class 24's Bob......They could be thrashed unlike the 25's, or so they told me. As such they were more likely to be chosen to work Adex's and specials up the hilly Conway Valley branch. I wonder if anyone remembers what it was like in those days with no 'Beano' to tell keep linesiders up to date. We just never knew what would come along. An instance of this was when 24073 turned up one teatime on a stone train. It had been withdrawn in Scotland, everyone on the grapvine knew this, yet here it was in North Wales, reinstated! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 The men at Llandudno Junction thought very highly of the Class 24's Bob......They could be thrashed unlike the 25's, or so they told me. As such they were more likely to be chosen to work Adex's and specials up the hilly Conway Valley branch. I wonder if anyone remembers what it was like in those days with no 'Beano' to tell keep linesiders up to date. We just never knew what would come along. An instance of this was when 24073 turned up one teatime on a stone train. It had been withdrawn in Scotland, everyone on the grapvine knew this, yet here it was in North Wales, reinstated! Part of the allure of the plucky 24s, Coach. I remember age 11 - having basically squandered the chance of childhood ScR HBS action during summer '76 - using bino's to see what was at Millerhill in March '77, then later that summer having the excitement of standing at Llandudno Jct as 24035 crawled through with a classic mixed freight. My Locoshed told me everything I needed to know about these being on borrowed time, with (S) symbols appearing on the page with disturbing regularity, but with no TOPS access or tinternet what you saw when linesiding really was a lucky dip. Should dig me old books out.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2011 re: the assortment of cab roof/headcode boxes - a couple of good pages with pics at derbysulzers: cab roofs, grille covers etc.: http://www.derbysulzers.com/changes.html cabs in general: http://www.derbysulzers.com/cabs.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 By a process of elimination, RailScot unknown image 27736 is D5131 Legend at Hawick on 3rd January 1969. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=27736 This comment would be better in the WR images thread, but the trio of lads watching proceedings is such a timeless cameo I have to highlight it here. Awesome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 By a process of elimination, RailScot unknown image 27736 is D5131 Legend at Hawick on 3rd January 1969. Okay Sherlock reveal all you know of "a little sallow rat-faced, dark-eyed fellow"......... I can see how the lack of blinds in the route indicator box works Chard - but how did you deduce the date (apart from Robin Barbour telling you) Excellent detective work all the same.....! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Okay Sherlock reveal all you know of "a little sallow rat-faced, dark-eyed fellow"......... I can see how the lack of blinds in the route indicator box works Chard - but how did you deduce the date (apart from Robin Barbour telling you) Excellent detective work all the same.....! LOL If she stayed in diagram then her appearance on this working fits with the 60A out-and-back that put her at Citadel on another atmospheric RailScot 2X52 capture. She's blue, 3-piece ploughs, unplated steps and has the unusual two-lamps headcode that looks uncannily like a G39 domino. But mainly I keep a tally of when our key paps* were out * Maybe that should be gricerazzi... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks Chard, will amend it in due course. Here's one for the paint shop sleuths..... 24118 seen here at Ferryhill in 1974 8/74 Ferryhill http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=17392 [RailScot / J McIntyre] 8/74 Ferryhill http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=32314 [RailScot / J McIntyre] Both shot on the same day supposedly in Aug 1974 - and I guess there's no reason to doubt it. And yet the loco looks as if it's still in green. And yet look at these earlier shots - all in Rail Blue - back to when it was still D5118 9/4/70 Perth (leading loco) http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=32372 4/5/71 Kyle http://railphotoarch...g=0934000032000 8/71 Inverness http://www.rmweb.co....22603_thumb.jpg So what's going on there? I can't believe for one minute in 1974 St.Rollox re-painted it in green? We had a few industrial problems then but not to the extent they (a) ran out of paint or (B) painted it with the first colour that came to hand. Trick of the light or dodgy film emulsion, and yet look at the blue loco in the second shot at Ferryhill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Trick of the light or dodgy film emulsion, and yet look at the blue loco in the second shot at Ferryhill. Has to be one or both of those reasons, despite the comparison with the 26 I really don't believe it's green. 26011 is interesting in itself though, another TOPSed early blue with cabside arrows - think that one's been mentioned before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks Chard, will amend it in due course. Here's one for the paint shop sleuths..... 24118 seen here at Ferryhill in 1974 8/74 Ferryhill http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=17392 [RailScot / J McIntyre] 8/74 Ferryhill http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=32314 [RailScot / J McIntyre] Both shot on the same day supposedly in Aug 1974 - and I guess there's no reason to doubt it. And yet the loco looks as if it's still in green. So what's going on there? I can't believe for one minute in 1974 St.Rollox re-painted it in green? We had a few industrial problems then but not to the extent they (a) ran out of paint or (B) painted it with the first colour that came to hand. Trick of the light or dodgy film emulsion, and yet look at the blue loco in the second shot at Ferryhill. I don't "think" there's any doubt that 24118 is blue - I've certainly never heard of a green repaint on it....but then again, not many people knew of the green repaint on 24147, but there it was.... The pics are noteworthy for two other reasons; 1 - The green 47 - a very late pic of a green TOPS ETH 47. Wouldn't I like to know, which one it is?? There were only a few 47/4s in green TOPS and they didn't last long. I think the last one, was the WR's 47494. This one, is probably one of the ER's bunch. 2 - 26011. VERY probably the only 26 to retain "Early Blue" into TOPS and only the second photo I've seen of it. Rgds, Ron. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks Ian & Ron. Here's a few additional shots kindly supplied via http://www.the-siding.co.uk/ website of Frank Cox and in accordance with the conditions laid down by him. Note the copyright of these particular images remains with the photographer Cliff Price. 5121 - 11/8/72 Lochgorm, Inverness 5125 - 10/8/72 Aberdeen Joint 5125 & 5132 9/8/72 Inverness And one to have Chard 'greetin' 5131's cab - yes that 5131 at Cowlairs (opposite the turkey carriage sidings) 17/8/72 - Now this raises the question - was it really cut-up at St.Rollox or was it for some odd reason cut-up on-site at Cowlairs? Otherwise what on earth is all the debris from the cutting up doing there. Now I know this is straying mildly off-the-topic into the wider realms of the 24/1s 5147 17/8/72 Motherwell - Blue but still with it's early British Railway symbol....... Are you sure that picture Ron that you have of it in 1974 at Eastfield is of it repainted in green? (despite it's bluish tinge)....... I can't think why at that time they'd be doing anything other than maintenance painting - patch up's etc. particularly on a loco that had been blue! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Now I know this is straying mildly off-the-topic into the wider realms of the 24/1s 5147 17/8/72 Motherwell - Blue but still with it's early British Railway symbol....... Are you sure that picture Ron that you have of it in 1974 at Eastfield is of it repainted in green? (despite it's bluish tinge)....... I can't think why at that time they'd be doing anything other than maintenance painting - patch up's etc. particularly on a loco that had been blue! Here's another one of those "Emulsion Anomalies". Despite how it looks, 5147 IS green. I have no idea, WHY it was repainted/bulled up in green in 1974. It WAS reported in the RO, at the time, but my ROs are "in storage" at the moment, so I can't refer to them. Possibly for an open day somewhere. Dunno. Crewe Works did a similar thing in the early '70s; a loco would enter for overhaul in green and it would exit after overhaul, looking for all the world, like it had been repainted green. Maybe 24147 had a minor O/H somewhere and they bulled up the paintwork as it wasn't TOO bad and sent her out again. Just guessing.... Rgds, Ron. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks for the answers Ron - I'd started to reword that question thus - not wanting to imply you were wrong! This was it re-worded I wondered if that picture you have Ron was of it repainted in green? (despite it's bluish tinge)....... I can't think why at that time they'd be doing anything other than maintenance painting - patch up's etc. on green loco's particularly on one that had already been blue! And yet here it is again at Eastfield looking decidedly green in 1974 http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=1455020061000 and by 76 it was back to blue http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0478022556000 So what was the cause of the retro paintjob? I'd have to go along with the notion that it was for one of the BR (ScR) & BREL "Railfairs" that were going on around that time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 2 - 26011. VERY probably the only 26 to retain "Early Blue" into TOPS and only the second photo I've seen of it. Here's another for you Ron - http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17588 26011 in Rail Blue...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks Bob - Luverly!! Notice 26011's still got the drop-down windows on the cab door, even though the window frames are painted yellow. Never seen one like that before. The two links to pics on the RPA don't work for me - all I get is an RPA Admin page, telling me my session has timed out............ I'll have another try in the morning. Meantime, the eyelids are getting heavy now............... Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 One quick question, before I DO hit the sack; Did any of the 5114-5132 series ever carry Green with Full Yellow Ends livery? All the pics posted on here so far, suggest not, but surely ONE of them lasted long enough.... Rgds, Ron. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 The Highland Baby Sulzers received a number of bespoke modifications to equip them for the particularly harsh weather experienced on the Far North, Kyle and Highland Main lines. Hell - if you've been with us this far through the thread you'll have seen them all! But, as a rough and ready guide for prospective modellers - and yes I am one - it's about time we started to summarize these tweaks that so personalised and gave such a distinctive character to the 60A Mohicans. With help and kind permission from David at Derby Sulzers, plus reference to Bob's gallery above, here's a wee story of how the boiler room grilles looked at the time of withdrawal: Five slat blanking plate: 5114, 24115, 24116, 24117, 24118, 24119, 24121, 5122, 24125, 24126, 24130, 5131, 24132 Four slat blanking plate: 24127 Solid blanking plate: 24120, 24124 (both of these locos had run with no blanking plate before HA), 24128 (had run with 5-slat before HA), 24129 (had 5-slat, then ran with none, solid fitted at HA) Original style grille: 24123 (had been fitted with 5-slat, removed at HA) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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