Dad-1 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Looking through after searching just 'wagons' I found several members with considerable knowledge on steel industry wagons so I'm hoping someone may be able to help me. I have several Bachmann 'Chalk Tippler' wagons and wish to add a suitable load to half (loaded one way empty back) Now CaCO3 comes in many forms and I'm guessing that being marked Chalk they carried softer chalk/limestone loads. Would these have been crushed rock, granulated, or even just large lumps ? I already have some rock chalk to break up to suit !! As the tipplers were uncovered there must have been some preparation at steel works before the material was being added to furnaces - wet rock would not be a good idea !! Geoff T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I have several Bachmann 'Chalk Tippler' wagons and wish to add a suitable load to half (loaded one way empty back) Now CaCO3 comes in many forms and I'm guessing that being marked Chalk they carried softer chalk/limestone loads. Would these have been crushed rock, granulated, or even just large lumps ? The Bachmann examples you have, Geoff, are actually of a wagon designed as an iron ore tippler - the branding applies specifically to one batch that were set aside for traffic from Totternhoe (near Leighton Buzzard I believe) to Rugby and Southam for Rugby Cement. So the 'correct' load would be whatever sort of chalk was quarried at Totternhoe, but it would be intended for cement manufacture rather than steelmaking. I'm sure there are exceptions, but as far as limestone for steelmaking goes, my impression is that it was more likely to be carried in hoppers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelintrev Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Geoff, The mention of Tottternhoe brings back some memories! Back in the mid - late 1950's the chalk pit was a regular haunt, it was also the first place I got to get on the footplate of real loco. The quarry was worked by a number of 4w Sentinels, and there was at least one saddle tank, IIRC there was also a abandoned side tank. The chalk rock was taken down to the main-line (Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard line) by a double track rope worked incline. I do have some photos but they're 4000+ miles and several months away! I believe there will be more detail in the book on the line (Welwyn - Leighton Buzzard railway????) Not a lot of use perhaps............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Austerity94 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi Geoff, Not sure about the loads for the Chalk wagons as discussed above, but I do have some books with illustrations of what seem to be the same style of wagons in use for limestone traffic for the steel industry. The wagons in question are on the Dyserth branch in North Wales. The time would be late '60s through early '70s (motive power is class 24 - D5038, D5040). Some other wagons appear to be 13ton steel sided opens; some are sheeted. If this sounds of use, I'll dig out the books and the magnifying glass to see if any more detail becomes visible. Hope this is of help. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad-1 Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Hi Alex, Thanks for the offer, but I'll not put you to the trouble of looking as this can wait for quite a while. I'll also see if I can arrange a site visit to Scunthorpe where I may be able to get some answers to my many 'Iron & Steel' questions. The only picture I've seen has tipplers being used for chalk that was destined for the cement industry. However we know limestone/chalk was vital to steel making ..... questions that make railway modelling all the more absorbing !! Geoff T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've never heard of chalk being used in steel making- it was either 'raw' Carboniferous Limestone for the blast furnaces, or burnt lime added during the transformation of the molten iron into steel. In both cases, it served as a flux, seperating the impurities as slag from the molten material. Quite often, both would be sourced from the same quarry- the burnt lime would travel in sheeted wagons, and later in covered hoppers. A search for information on the Rugby- Leamington branch should produce photos of tipplers carrying chalk for cement making- the photo I remember is of a train at Southam, and I'm fairly certain the chalk was in largish lumps. The tipplers were the sort with the shorter wheelbase and slightly higher sides, as modelled by Bachmann and Hornby, rather than the ones with lower sides and a 10' wheelbase, as modelled by Parkside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2011 Chalk is just a purer form of limestone (both principally calcium carbonate). As FC says chalk tends to be blocky. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I have revived this thread, because it is amazing what can be acquired at auction for a couple of quid just because the bridge parapet has gotten in the way of a classic photo which would now fetch £70 - £100 on Ebay. I don't give a toss about photographic snobbishness. I will buy anything which looks to be historically informative, whether underexposed or with a stray finger through the image. Here is D302 passing Rugby in 1961, and just look at the wealth of detail. The poor EE Type4's train is at least 15 coaches long (no wonder they had to withdraw the Duchesses in 1964 in order to save extreme embarrassment). The wagons in the nearest siding are mainly chalk tipplers with the occasional 16t coal wagon and a few iron ore tipplers in the rake. Take a look for yourself and discover the wonderful variety of BR in days gone by - 9th August 1961 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Behind the chalk tipplers are those three shoc opens loaded with chalk? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I'm not sure. It could be a trick of the camera, and the shoc wagons are in front of another line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted June 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2018 I'm not sure. It could be a trick of the camera, and the shoc wagons are in front of another line. d302 rugby 9:8:61.jpg I would say the shoc wagons are infront of a line of Catfish loaded with some very pale/clean ballast, Shark ballast plough at the far end. Like you say, the variety in that photo is wonderful. Just wondering if that is some form of water column next to the loco? Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 A couple of related points. The dedicated chalk tippers were numbered in a different series to the Iron Ore Tipplers, being in the same series as merchandise opens (B747xxx) . However, these new wagons were of the later, lower-sided type. They were quickly exchanged for some of the higher-sided Ore tipplers, and put into the Pool for iron ore traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have revived this thread, because it is amazing what can be acquired at auction for a couple of quid just because the bridge parapet has gotten in the way of a classic photo which would now fetch £70 - £100 on Ebay. I don't give a toss about photographic snobbishness. I will buy anything which looks to be historically informative, whether underexposed or with a stray finger through the image. Here is D302 passing Rugby in 1961, and just look at the wealth of detail. The poor EE Type4's train is at least 15 coaches long (no wonder they had to withdraw the Duchesses in 1964 in order to save extreme embarrassment). The wagons in the nearest siding are mainly chalk tipplers with the occasional 16t coal wagon and a few iron ore tipplers in the rake. Take a look for yourself and discover the wonderful variety of BR in days gone by - 9th August 1961 Useful picture of loco D302 roof with centre section looking nearer to black than the usual grey of RTR models. I have a Joeff class 40 in overall green. It is a good runner and cost only £9.99 in Beatties so should come out of its box after twenty years. d302 rugby 9:8:61.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just wondering if that is some form of water column next to the loco? Dave Yes, it looks like the standard LNWR design. Interesting to note that the passenger train is largely made up of Stanier stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yes, it looks like the standard LNWR design. Interesting to note that the passenger train is largely made up of Stanier stock. I can only see three LMS coaches, two are brake seconds which many were fitted with Pullman gangway adapters to run with Mk1s. If you look along the rake of coaches the first, third and tenth coach are the only ones with underframe trussing visible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I can only see three LMS coaches, two are brake seconds which many were fitted with Pullman gangway adapters to run with Mk1s. If you look along the rake of coaches the first, third and tenth coach are the only ones with underframe trussing visible. You're probably right about the matter of visible trussing - but don't forget that the first centre-trussed carriages were of Stanier design and one or more COULD feature in this train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 You're probably right about the matter of visible trussing - but don't forget that the first centre-trussed carriages were of Stanier design and one or more COULD feature in this train. There was only one "standard" coach with central trussing, BSK No M5844M. There could be a few of the Coronation Scot coaches but I cannot see any coaches with the body panels covering the saolbars. There might be an excursion articulated pair in the train. These all would require Pullman gangway adapters which were normally fitted to coaches that would be included in sets of Mk1 coaches for long periods. Sorry for going OT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I can only see three LMS coaches, two are brake seconds which many were fitted with Pullman gangway adapters to run with Mk1s. If you look along the rake of coaches the first, third and tenth coach are the only ones with underframe trussing visible. The sixth coach is also LMS, a kitchen car which have shallower trussing and no battery box so are not as obvious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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