steven156 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Just recently managed to get my hands on a Bachmann Ethel in Intercity mainline livery was thinking of getting another class 25 chassis and stripping out the gubbins so it can be dragged freely and if required get it sound chipped. One thing thats always been on my mind is how did the real things actually work? Were the engines/power units still in place and idle to work the ETH supply or were the engines stripped out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Just recently managed to get my hands on a Bachmann Ethel in Intercity mainline livery was thinking of getting another class 25 chassis and stripping out the gubbins so it can be dragged freely and if required get it sound chipped. One thing thats always been on my mind is how did the real things actually work? Were the engines/power units still in place and idle to work the ETH supply or were the engines stripped out? They retained the engine and generator, but the traction motors were removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I believe the PUs were run up to about half power when supplying ETH, with the locos being fitted with 'standard' ETH fittings? An excellent site worth a look is http://www.derbysulzers.com/97250.html Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Funny you should ask this. I dug out some old audio cassettes a couple of weeks ago, one of which was a journey on the northbound sleeper. The hauling loco was either 37184 or 17190 with an ETHEL then the coaching stock. The ETHEL just chugged away the whole time drowning out a fair bit of class 37 thrash. The class 25s had their TMs removed and had the output from the main generator directed into an ETH distribution system on the buffer beams. I believe the power units were set to run at about half power to deliver the supply to the train. The all up weight was 63 tons as opposed to class 25 at 74 tons.There was little external change to them apart from paint and buffer beam detail, although one received wire mesh over the windscreens in it's later use as a charter train heating unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2011 , although one received wire mesh over the windscreens in it's later use as a charter train heating unit. Was this something to do with windows being broken from errant lumps of coal from the kettle steamer in front? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Was this something to do with windows being broken from errant lumps of coal from the kettle steamer in front? Cheers, Mick But also from errant 16 SVTs too !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven156 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Thanks for the replies, am considering getting a Bachmann Class 25 sound chassis and stripping out the driveshafts, rather expensive I know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 All the photos I've seen show the ETHEL between the loco and the coaching stock. Was this always the case? Ie would there be some interesting shunting at the terminus to get the ETHEL from one end of the train to another? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 All the photos I've seen show the ETHEL between the loco and the coaching stock. Was this always the case? Ie would there be some interesting shunting at the terminus to get the ETHEL from one end of the train to another? I've only ever seen an ETHEL between the loco and coaches so when we runs ours on Kirkhill it does mean we have to shunt the ETHEL separate to the rest of the rake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Slightly OT, but I feel related, - The class 31's and alike, that were converted to train heating units, did they supply ETS, or steam heat - or could they do both? Also were they ever used in a service train? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Slightly OT, but I feel related, - The class 31's and alike, that were converted to train heating units, did they supply ETS, or steam heat - or could they do both? Also were they ever used in a service train? They were used for ETH supplies on trains that were stabled overnight; the only time they might have moved would be to or from a works or maintenance depot. For those sidings that required steam-heating supplies, a steam-heating boiler or an old steam loco would have been used- I recollect that old BR horse-boxes were often used to house the former. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I remember seeing all the ETHEL's at Perth in the mid 1980's. Some of the cab windows were boarded up even then. They were painted blue/grey at the time. I think they had a crew member on board when operating in a train, probably in case of fire. I also think the engine governor took care of the engine speed, based on load, but as others have mentioned, it was limited to half power, which was probably the maximum amount of power required for the heaviest ETH load. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I have seen internet references to an Ethel at the Perth Railfair, but I can not recall seeing there myself even though I did go (with my dad and elder brother, I was only seven) and I recall the Railfair was held in the yard to the north of the station, and had a shuttle service to it. I have also heard that there was a crewman on board when they where in use. Silly Question time - Why did the two IC liveried units have yellow ends, but whilst in Blue and Grey the ends were blue? P.S. Thanks Fat Controller, I just wondered about the 31's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg06003 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have seen internet references to an Ethel at the Perth Railfair, but I can not recall seeing there myself even though I did go (with my dad and elder brother, I was only seven) and I recall the Railfair was held in the yard to the north of the station, and had a shuttle service to it. Catkins, The reason you maybe missed the ETHEL at the Railfair was that it was on display at the station with a rake of mk3 sleepers. The old dear on the left is obviously a major fan given that she has dressed to match the loco. Perhaps she was called Ethel..... Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2011 As Flood mentioned above. This is the Bachmann 25 repainted to represent ETHEL 1 that now resides on Aberdeen Kirkhill. It is seen at East Thorpe Quay awaiting a transfer north Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2011 If the loco's were complete apart from traction motors why were they not multiple worked with the 37 - ie so the 37/Ethel combo could be driven from either end of the combo, surely would have saved alot of shunting?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If the loco's were complete apart from traction motors why were they not multiple worked with the 37 - ie so the 37/Ethel combo could be driven from either end of the combo, surely would have saved alot of shunting?? That's a good question - Until you consider the fact that the non ETH locos didn't have through cabling for the ETH supply from the Ethels! *"D'oh"* But, seeing that the Ethel had to be next to the carriages - Why shunt it from one end to another after every working? edited to clarify - " That's a good question - Until you consider the fact that the non ETH locos didn't have through cabling for the ETH supply from the Ethels! *"D'oh"* " I did actually go through that line in my mind hence the "d'oh" (note to admin - is there a suitable smiley?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2011 Until you consider the fact that the non ETH locos didn't have through cabling for the ETH supply from the Ethels! Fair enough, I wouldnt have known that the cabling was seperate from the ligthing/other electrical circuits.... just assumed the extra alternator was required for a bigger current draw of the heating on top of other electrical demands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2011 Fair enough, I wouldnt have known that the cabling was seperate from the ligthing/other electrical circuits.... just assumed the extra alternator was required for a bigger current draw of the heating on top of other electrical demands. ETH cabling on the BR system is carrying 800 volts - with a likely load of 300 amps or more as it leaves the loco, hence the quite substantial cabling which is used for the ETH connections between vehicles. There is no other sort of electrical feed between locos and hauled stock. The only through ETH cabled locos which I'm aware of were the Eurostar Class 37 fleet which were through cabled in order to work the generator van triplets for the ENS sleeper services on non-electrified lines; the triplets would have been formed Class 37 + generator van + Class 37 the idea being that such a formation would avoid running round etc problems when shunting or reversing and also provide a potential replacement loco in the event of a failure. However the ETH on the ENS stock was to the UIC design, not the BR type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A word to the people who are planning to model an ETHEL, why try and remove the inner workings? Why not just run the 25 masquerading as an ETHEL in multiple with a class 37 or other appropriate engine? If using DCC, the engine sound could be used and the main locomotive for the train could shunt the ETHEL around without actually being innacurate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2011 A word to the people who are planning to model an ETHEL, why try and remove the inner workings? Why not just run the 25 masquerading as an ETHEL in multiple with a class 37 or other appropriate engine? If using DCC, the engine sound could be used and the main locomotive for the train could shunt the ETHEL around without actually being innacurate The ETHEL would normally operate with constant half-revs. If you drive it in multi with the 37, the revs will change, as well as brake release sounds etc. I've done an idling 66 for top'n'tail engineers workings. I simply removed the driveshaft and top worm from the bogies. Top tip, once removed, tape the drive shaft bits down inside the loco so you don't lose them if you need to reinstate the loco to powered operation. We had an IC liveried ETHEL back on "Moore" in the early 1990's - now where's that photo? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Catkins, The reason you maybe missed the ETHEL at the Railfair was that it was on display at the station with a rake of mk3 sleepers. The old dear on the left is obviously a major fan given that she has dressed to match the loco. Perhaps she was called Ethel..... Bruce Strangely I remember this with grey panels on the nose ends - very similar in size and shape to the small yellow panels carried by the green livery. Is memory playing tricks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteen 12by 10s Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hi Don't take this as gospel, but at first the ETHEL's power units just idled at one speed, but problems were encountered with oil distribution around the power unit. A modification was carried out, to throttle the engine revs up with the powering loco. This would mean, that the regulating air pipe (0-50 psi proportional to the power control) would need to be connected between the powering loco and the ETHEL, this is why they were always between the powering and the train. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The only through ETH cabled locos which I'm aware of were the Eurostar Class 37 fleet which were through cabled in order to work the generator van triplets for the ENS sleeper 31/6 are through cabled too Mike. C6T. And now, back to the advertised programme... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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