a1 partwork Flying Scotsman

[Blue Peter]

Thanks ANDY Y

[Stan Owen]

Gentlemen

 

Up till now I've enjoyed visiting the forum and seeing how others are tackling their builds and seeing pictures of some of the excellent results so far achieved. Unfortunately, it does seem that some unwelcome unpleasantness is creeping in which I think is a real shame, given that everyone on the forum wants to build a good model and that this exercise is, after all, supposed to be a pleasurable experience.

 

I understand that there needs to be room for disagreements. Not everyone agrees with me that the plastic boiler is a good thing and they are entitled to their opinion as am I. I'll be entirely candid and say that I do not subscribe to the view that this partwork has more errors that the average locomotive kit. Sure, some things could have been done better, particularly with regards to the instructions and prototype information. Nevertheless, I have difficulty in recognising a claim that many of the parts are substandard - mine certainly are not although there is room for improvement in a very, very few. This would be true for most kits on the market. If anyone has a perception that they have been sold a pup then there is probably nothing anyone can see to disabuse them of this notion. Having, however, tackled some right lemons down the years this partwork is pretty good overall. Sure, some minor (and I mean minor) "fettling" is required, but a multi-material kit is never going to be like sticking together an Airfix Spitfire. If it were that easy, where's the satisfaction? Like some other members, my preference is for etched components but the point previously made about some manufacturers etching everything in sight is a good one. "Etch the flat bits and cast the fat bits" is pretty much a good approach to any kit design.

 

It does seem that some of the rise in temperature is a perception that the advertising was misleading regarding the ability of the model to run on more than a metre of track. I do not possess an O-Gauge layout nor have any plans to build one. My model will, for the most part, sit in a glass case with the occasional excursion out to a club or a friend's layout. Nonetheless, my loco is built to run and I see no reason why any other model should not also have this capability. I did not purchase the controller and motor on offer from Hachette, prefering to source these items elsewhere. A model of this kind is always going to draw a lot of current and I was a little sceptical that the controller on offer was man enough for the job. It does seem that some purchasers of the package may have found this to be the case and where a member reports that the controller cuts out, this may be down to the motor drawing more current that the controller is capable of sustaining. To label a model as "static", however, merely because the controller can not keep up with the demands of the motor for more than a few seconds is, however, somewhat misleading.

 

For those who have yet to make the plunge on these items, I use a Gaugemaster (usual disclaimer) "UO" panel-mounted controller (it is also available, I believe, in cased form) and this can deliver 2amps. With the motor/gearbox I am using (ABC Gears - VML2C 26:1, Maxon Motor) my model has run fine under test conditions. I think the controller and motor set me back around £130 together which is somewhat more expensive than Hachette's offering although obviously the controller is for use with any models I may build. It does sound as though the package controller is more suited to 4mm scale than a 7mm scale "Scottie" (for 4mm scale a controller rated at 1amp is generally sufficient for even the heaviest model).

 

As I said at the beginning, I hope that sanity prevails and the unwelcome "flaming" disappears. This is supposed to be a place to help each other out, after all.

 

Regards, Stan Owen

[Sheffield]

Thanks, Stan, for your remarks, which I support. It is sad to see unpleasantness creeping in to what should be a pleasure and a source of help and advice. While the claims by Hatchett may be seen as misleading, I am still not sure if strictly speaking they are. They claim the loco can be used on a layout. Well it clearly can, and surely an O gauge layout suitable for it will already have a controller able to supply the current this loco will take. The controller supplied by Hatchett is intended to run the loco on the yard of track they also supplied. A loco that is longer than 50% of the length of track it is on is not going to go very far or very fast, and the small controller may be adequate for that. Where they have come unstuck is in not making it clear that the controller is unsuitable for any thing more. Perhaps I was lucky in that the wheels and axles that I received fitted correctly, and so I have avoided one of the worst quality issues. Fitted with a Maxon motor and Slaters gear box I now have a good, but not perfect, model of an A3 late in its life, and a worthwhile amount of enjoyment over the past two and a half years. It has been no worse than many model railway kits I have seen, which may reflect badly on the model railway kit market, rather than to the credit of Hatchett. Would we do another? It would be interesting to know how well the series has sold around the world, and whether Hatchett see it as a success. And don't forget the NRM and the real Flying Scotsman has benefitted by our efforts, which helps to make it worthwhile.

[4472]

I see Mallard has been moved from the NRM, was pulled by Tornado up to the Shildon Museum in the North East, its been moved for safety whilst refurb work goes on in the Great Hall, though it seems unclear if or when Mallard will return.

 

An awesome sight to see back on the track!

 

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/A-steaming-double-act-as.6377379.jp

[Bernard Lamb]

As one of the people who tried to help by supplying details of the real thing in the early days, I am saddened by the bickering that has arisen so near to the end. There seem to be two main factors that have caused problems. Hatchette's lack of knowledge of the model railway market and their reliance on DJH to provide technical back up in terms of both prototype information and building methods. My own experience of DJH in the past leaves me not in the least bit surprised how that side of things has gone. Hatchette I think have made a reasonable job of producing the parts and seeing the project through to the end. I would imagine that their profit margin has been somewhat reduced due to having to supply new parts and alter others. They surely deserve credit for trying to put right any problems that arose.

Congratulations to all who have seen it through and produced some very good models.

Those who decided to turn it into a model of a different period merit a special mention. How about a challenge? A model in 2010 condition. I went past York on the train last week and the tender and cab were both out in the yard looking in rather a forlorn state.

Bernard

[pecksniff]

Flying out to India tomorrow to have a word with the Hachette call centre about the plates...

 

Regards

 

Ted.

[ozzyo]

The DJH boiler is pewter. As are the boilers in the initial 2,000 test issues of the part work.

 

Question to all.

 

Do we know of any of the 2,000 test issues having shown up yet?

 

If there was 2,000 test issues how many of the full run was there?

 

2,000 would be a good run for any one loco kit in 7mm in ten years let alone for a test sample.

 

How many people have subscribed to this part-work? Do you know?

 

 

OzzyO.

[4472]

I would hazard a guess at many thousands, its unlikely that partwork series are viable in their hundreds, and not forgetting that series are generally moved around the world, I think the FS series also ended up in Oz and Sth Africa.

 

Though its odd if there were 2,000 test issues floating around that word of this seems not to have landed on the net until the series went on national sale, its only just emerged that a metal boiler was part of the test content, which makes you wonder what else differed, my guess would be the issue 1 cab, because it was noted on the net that it was re-designed for the national series, I bet for the test the DJH cab was supplied which seemingly has cab has rivets as an integral part of the metal, whereas the series cab has holes.

 

You could disect this for ever and a day, the series is at an end and its frustrations over, though like Bernard says, special credit to those who built another loco version from the same kit B)

[30801]

To quote the designer of the cab:

Not the designer for the whole thing, just the cabin parts, Hachette realised there needed to be some last minute changes, and changes to the way the parts went together (photo etch could only be half etched on one side, not two, hence the reason the frames are separate).

 

This was on the PistonHeads forum when the partwork was released, but someone decided to be an arse and have a go at the bloke so the thread got binned along with any more insight into how these things work.

[Sheffield]

Although the series, and the frustrations, may be complete, at least for Britain, the interest remains. If there were as many as 2,000 pilot issues I am a bit surprised that word of it did not appear either in the forums or in the model railway press. And if the boiler was a cast metal one was the tender body was as well? Do we know where and to whom they were offered? Forum members don't seem to miss much and if they were in, say, some WH Smith's shops I would have thought they would have been reported. With respect, but was the number of 2,000 made with authority and definate knowledge, or just hearsay evidence?

Is this why the pictures, presumably taken of a pilot build, in the publications for the start of the main series show a painted boiler and tender body? Not to hide the plastic, but to hide the change of material. And if the pilot builds did not show up the problem with the footplate and main frame mismatch in time to allow the instructions to take it into account at the begining does this mean the pilot builds did not have this problem and it was a manufacturing fault, unnoticed until it was too late, and not a design fault? Were Hatchett let down by their subcontractors? And if DJH were in fact building a pilot is this why they did not catch the defects as we thought they should?

If, as seems likely given the ecomonics of partwork production, many thousands have been sold I wonder how many started kits have become finished locos. Is a LNER pacific now the most numerous O gauge loco? Will we be seeing them appearing on O gauge layouts in the press for years to come? Difficult loco to justify on the sort of O gauge layout most of us have room for!

[pecksniff]

I thought I would give this chap credit from the partworks model forum

 

plenty of partwork kits being built there by some very keen builders

 

Well done Mark whoever you are, and no he prefers B.R green..

 

Ted..

[Old Time Workshop]

I would guess that whilst there may have been many initial issues of the trial, it is unlikely that it persisted for more than a few issues. Since folks get a taste of soldering & glueing within the first few magazines, that might be as far as the test went for most early subscribers. As has been said before, the partwork came from a mindset more used to display models than working ones. Seeing a trial all the way through to completion would be very expensive and take too long. They started with a finished model design, so waiting another 2 -3 years to bring the magazine to market would not appeal to the bean counters.

 

Simon.

[4472]

Sheffield - Partwork tests seem to be in selected areas of the UK and only seem to run for up to 5 issues or so.

In which case the tender body would not have been seen in the test issues let alone a full build of the intended parts, other than likely a sample model built from DJH parts for such as magazine photos etc, this might explain the painted items of boiler, tender body and cab roof which were all items that differed in material to the normal DJH spec, and in the case of the cab for the national launch, was redesigned which turned out to have shortcomings compared with the DJH version,(which has rivets and window beading as an integral part of the metal).

 

There is no IF about DJH building the model ahead of customers, a copied email from DJH appeared in the old thread of this topic saying their "inspection of components to date is faultless", so they were seeing the Hachette supplied parts in advance of customers, though instuction was provided of how to rectify such as the frame/footplate problem.

 

Anyway its academic and all water under the bridge, though I'll hazard a guess the 'experience' will have put a number off from buying future product from Hachette and DJH.

[30801]

With respect, but was the number of 2,000 made with authority and definate knowledge, or just hearsay evidence?

That came fromt he bloke on the DJH stand at Kettering who told me they did 2,000 pewter boilers for the test run. After the test finished part way through the buyers were refunded.

 

There seems to be a following for the partwork in the Gauge O guild. While I was talking to the DJH bloke I was accosted by a very enthusiastic fellow in a guild shirt, but not being a member I didn't have a clue what he was on about...

 

I'll repeat what I poseted a while back and say that the completed model on the DJH stand was excellent and looked just as good as the other models on display.

BTW the partwork Scotsman was built by one of DJH's CAD designers who while presumably being technically competent was not a modeller.

[Sheffield]

30801 Thanks for that, it explains why no body has appeared on the forum waving a metal not plastic boiler.

[4472]

Not quite, he said people were refunded for the test mags they bought, not that they returned the boilers

 

Would be great if someone posted any photos of the DJH build loco.

[30801]

Not quite, he said people were refunded for the test mags they bought, not that they returned the boilers

Yeah, I didn't think to ask if they had to return the issues to get the refund...

 

A bit strange really as IIRC the boiler appeared relatively late in the production version and knocking up 2000 pewter ones for a test can't have been cheap.

[4472]

Now that looks superb, love the aging of the backhead, thanks for the link slimited B)

 

You mentions CPL for the dial face decals which are a nice touch, can you provide the contact info for CPL or where they might be found?

[Bernard Lamb]

Now that looks superb, love the aging of the backhead, thanks for the link slimited B)

 

He mentions CPL for the dial face decals which are a nice touch, anyone know who CPL are or where they might be found?

 

 

I would imagine Carl Legg. 0 Gauge is not my scene but I have come across some of his items.

Bernard

[Blue Peter]

well done Slimited,

You must have been going like a "train" to finish it,

Personally, I have my doubts on the Running gear!

White metal-whitemetal??,I too also are an engineer and I put the moving

parts in brass! (should last a wee bit longer)-on the 1-mtr track I was

sent.

Anyway,well done you for looking at this partwork, other than F.S,---ROB

[Sweedy]

Now that looks superb, love the aging of the backhead, thanks for the link slimited

 

You mentions CPL for the dial face decals which are a nice touch, can you provide the contact info for CPL or where they might be found?

 

For your information

 

CPL Products are at 4 The Glade, Newbury RG14 7AT. Tel 01635 44001. They do not have a website so far as I know.

 

They produce Scale Couplings, and various other bits and pieces, much of it aimed at GWR O Gauge modellers, so that doesn't include me. My catalogue is now several years old (2005) and does not list the dial transfers, so they must have been introduced subsequently.

[4472]

Thanks B)

[Calsash]

It is great to see despite all the moans and groans there are some good models finalising.

As someone who is playing catch up, do I take it that the pick ups mentioned in issue 104 came with the Hatchette motor and if so where can I get these pickups as I am using a second hand motor purchased on ebay?

Any help on this will be appreciated.

Cheers.

[30801]

You can get the pickups from Slaters part no 7157

[Calsash]

You can get the pickups from Slaters part no 7157

Many thanks for that.