Camden Shed

[LNER4479]

20 hours ago, 92220 said:

When you haven’t built any track for at least 6 years, you start with a straightforward B7 tucked away in a corner of the goods yard that will be modelled non-functionally, don’t you? You know, ease back into it?

 

Sheer muppetry ...

 

But looks to be a great outcome!

[KeithHC]

Now if you want to do a B7 it will be getting very easy. As the ham fisted modeller I managed to build the British Finescale turnout kit in less than an hour. Can’t wait for them to be released......

 

btw cracking layout

 

Keith

[92220]

Thanks Keith, yes I have been looking with some excitement at Wayne’s planned new releases.   Plenty of the pointwork in the shed area is simple enough - a lot of B7s as would be expected, I guess.  So if I can save some time it will help a lot because these 2 long crossovers were errr...... somewhat longer than that to build.  I think they sound very cost-effective regardless of the time saved as well.  
 

So, a couple of updates:

 

I will start with the boring bit, but it’s necessary.

 

The gate had to be reliable in terms of running etc but also foolproof that I couldn’t accidentally run a train into the gulf of emptiness above the hard floor.  My first effort at Sir Bill a few years ago already bears the scars of being dropped a few years ago, and I think it’s fair to say it didn’t do him a lot of good.

 

So:

 

The red zone is the gate section that swings open.

 

 

It is always live, but fed by the blue section.  
 

when the gate is closed, the two green sections are fed by making connections:

 

At the storage end, the gate closes and makes these choc blocks connect.

 

 

 

At the scenic end, there are 4 bolts and locks, and each one makes good the circuit to that green section.  So you have to close the gate and make all 4 connections to get trains to run within 18” of the gate.

 

 

Hopefully it makes sense and might even work.  I made it up myself.  There will be cleverer ways, but there are certainly cleverer people.
 

Going to have to split this up I think.

 

Iain

[92220]

Now I have some much bigger news.

 

We have........a full circuit!  
 

 

At least on the up fast and up slow/DC.  So the only sane thing to do is to put a few of the existing buildings and structures out and run some trains.  Bear in mind that I have not fully wired up the slow so I only ran a few on the up fast.  I just picked out a few carriages - 4 rtr, 4 kits and a hybrid, so not a representative train.  

 

46245, 46248, 46251, 44687, 46145, 92220 all made an appearance.  None have turned a wheel in anger for at least 4 years.  Some need a service and a spot of oil.  My videoing and editing techniques need refinement.

 

But this was such a genuinely exciting moment that I just took a few clips and wanted to share them.

 

 

 

Iain

[pirouets]

Its at about 1min in the video you get a sense of the scale of the layout as the train really does shrink in to the distance for that shot. Think how far you could get if you ignore the golf clubs this year   (I'm sure you mentioned that game some time back in the thread and I'm guessing where ever you play is in good nick as it hasn't been hammered for the winter)

[LNER4479]

None of the reaction buttons can possibly do this justice - bl00dy well done is what I want to say!

 

That looks great Iain, really smooth running. I'm sure that laying the running tracks on the foam sheet past the depot is absolutely the right thing to do. 

 

I suppose you'll be wanting your stock back now ...

[LNER4479]

Actually,  one critical observation. Overall the sweep of the main lines past the depot looks fantastic - but, on the first clip there looked to be a comparatively sharp change in curvature on the Up fast between the two crossovers. Obviously not an impediment to running,  just more of a visual thing.

 

Is that a trick of the light or what?

[46256]

Iain totally agree with the comments...even flinched when you described Sir Bill doing a sky dive..

 

The layout great work a real credit to you.

 

 May I ask are you a one person band or are others involved? The scope and scale of this layout is immense. Apologies if you have answered this in earlier posts, and secondly do you use any RTR chassis, or are they all replaced ?

 Very best wishes Brian

[BMacdermott]

Hello Iain

 

Superb work! For me - as someone who knew the place in the late 50s/early 60s - it really works!

 

A milestone reached.

 

Brian

[92220]

Thanks Brian x 2 (46256 I feel I really ought to call you Bill but anyway) and Steve.  
 

To answer the qs, I’m not a complete one-man band here no, although I guess not far from it.  
Graham gave huge assistance with the overall plan (make the scenic part diagonal to create the space to get in and out, then take the curves under the bench).  Then he also came for a couple of days in early Feb 2020 to basically lay the north end of the storage yard and sneakily in the process teach me about Peco products that I had never used before.  Including bending and splicing. Then I did the rest so far.  I learned a lot from several experts many of whom are on here - including but by no means exhaustively, Graham himself, Tony Wright, Norman Solomon and Geoff Taylor (mainly via the DVDs), Mike Edge, Vincent Worthington, Mick Moore, Tony Gee, plus many others I’ve missed off for sure - for some of those listed they might not even know how much they have helped but simply being in the presence of some of them seems to allow wisdom to percolate.  Sometimes I am a quick learner, but not always. 

 

I am more than happy to accept help from people more expert than me in particular areas, and happy to pay where I can afford it or barter in exchange.  Just not always easy to see where that is possible.  This was always meant to be a long term project!

 

I do use some rtr mechanisms, yes.  Until Hornby bring our their new one, I honestly don’t think there is a better 9F chassis than the Bachmann one.  Even Killybegs had the Bachmann wheels machined to accept P4 tyres on his incredible Bradwell/Bachmann body 9F: there are simply no more accurate wheels out there.  Now the Hornby one may or may not be as good in that department.  There will only be one 9F on Camden except for occasional visitors and it doesn’t take a genius to work out which one.

 

The Rebuilt Jubilee 45735 Comet has the standard rtr mech, as does 44687.  Graham has a few of my modified rtr for use on Shap. 46146, 44684, 92056 and some others I think.  I’ve just completed 46251 using the Hornby chassis as a basis too.  But more and more, I will move towards Comet or similar frames if I use the rtr body.  They just go better and look better.

 

Graham - thank you too.  As for your query, I was thinking much the same.  It does look a lot less severe from most angles but from some, it is not quite right.  It is partly about the realignment of the tracks about halfway along.  At the north end, I goes DF 10’ DS 6’ US 10’ UF.  At the south end the spacings are 6’ 10’ 6’ so there is a geometry change anyway,  I think in most modern times, the entire curve around the shed area (now carriage sidings) is a more constant radius but in those days it does not seem seem to have been so.  But I might yet just realign it very slightly.  These photos show it more clearly.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and the up slow/DC is now fully wired.  45027 on a short local commuter train.  More on the video below:

 

 

Iain

[92220]

 

 

Hang on.

 

 

Done.

 

 

 

 

Better, I hope.

 

 

 

Iain

[MikeParkin65]

Would love to see 46251 when you get the chance

[Penrhos1920]

On 17/04/2021 at 21:12, 92220 said:

Thanks Keith, yes I have been looking with some excitement at Wayne’s planned new releases.   Plenty of the pointwork in the shed area is simple enough - a lot of B7s as would be expected, I guess.  So if I can save some time it will help a lot because these 2 long crossovers were errr...... somewhat longer than that to build.  I think they sound very cost-effective regardless of the time saved as well.  
 

So, a couple of updates:

 

I will start with the boring bit, but it’s necessary.

 

The gate had to be reliable in terms of running etc but also foolproof that I couldn’t accidentally run a train into the gulf of emptiness above the hard floor.  My first effort at Sir Bill a few years ago already bears the scars of being dropped a few years ago, and I think it’s fair to say it didn’t do him a lot of good.

 

So:

 

The red zone is the gate section that swings open.

 

 

It is always live, but fed by the blue section.  
 

when the gate is closed, the two green sections are fed by making connections:

 

At the storage end, the gate closes and makes these choc blocks connect.

 

 

 

At the scenic end, there are 4 bolts and locks, and each one makes good the circuit to that green section.  So you have to close the gate and make all 4 connections to get trains to run within 18” of the gate.

 

 

Hopefully it makes sense and might even work.  I made it up myself.  There will be cleverer ways, but there are certainly cleverer people.
 

Going to have to split this up I think.

 

Iain

 

 

How long are the green zones?  If you only have locos on the front then twice loco length is enough.  But if your banking or emus on the DC lines then they have to be longer.

[92220]

10 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

 

How long are the green zones?  If you only have locos on the front then twice loco length is enough.  But if your banking or emus on the DC lines then they have to be longer.

 
A very good point well made, thank you.  
 

I must admit (I mean I could just lie and pretend it was all worked out) that I’d not considered that.  

 

But, happily all northbound i.e. down banking will cease (banker will drop off) by the middle of the shed or before.  No up banking because it’s down(hill).  As for the EMUs, I was tentatively hoping to have one 6 car 501 set in each direction.  Just one set will take me ages so two might be too much.  In which case I will have to be very careful as even having pickups only on the driving trailer,  which is possible, that will work only in the pulling direction.

 

Double heading was rare but definitely not unheard of. Rod Steele’s book has a few examples and I have a photo of 44687 piloting a Jubilee on the Midlander, which is my excuse for having it.  The green zones will just about work for double heading, but it’s tight.  
 

thanks,

 

Iain

[92220]

 

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Would love to see 46251 when you get the chance

Hi Mike,

of course.   

46251 build starts here

 

 

 

 

goes here:

 

46251 also features heavily in the videos in the two posts above.  I hope soon to get round to painting all of the unpainted bits, turning the Hornby weathering into something more akin to photos, and adding final details like coal etc.  I would normally prefer to put a refined and modified Hornby body on Comet frames but as an exercise in making the standard item  work well, this was worth it.  
 

 

 

Iain

[millerhillboy]

Great progress here Iain, looks like you are building up a bit of momentum here and heading quickly towards something that's operational to some degree. Great work.

[LNER4479]

On 18/04/2021 at 14:27, 92220 said:

Hang on.

 

Done.

 

 

Better, I hope.

 

Iain

That looks more betterer!

 

I hadn't appreciated the bit about the transition of track centres - interesting.

 

Looking forward to next updates ...

[92220]

23 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

That looks more betterer!

 

I hadn't appreciated the bit about the transition of track centres - interesting.

 

Looking forward to next updates ...

Yes, I imagine it was all to do with aligning the up and down DC/slow lines for the dive under at the north end by the bridge.  
 

At least this is how I have interpreted various maps and photos, and it wouldn’t be the first time I’d done either of those wrongly!

 

Thanks again for your help so far Graham.  Hopefully it is beginning to take shape as you imagined, albeit somewhat more slowly than a Red Leader project!  Definitely don’t need any stock just yet and I am sure we can work out loaning arrangements anytime there is a show where Shap is appearing.  Indeed, I might have a whole load more (locos especially) that you might want to utilise.  

 

Iain

[92220]

Planning a few things for the area occupied by Primrose Hill Station at the NW end and Camden Goods Station at the SE end.  I see this area as a main part of the backdrop to the layout, so rather like a 3D backscene, but with a small amount of movement possible on some parts of it.   Like an occasionally moving diorama.  
 

Regents Park Road bridge should have, under its main span, the 4 mainlines, one line through Primrose Hill Station and two lines, albeit with some quite complex S&C, for the goods yard.   On the real thing, these two lines would I imagine have been in and out, but they diverged to well over 45 roads.  Clearly I am only going to be able to show a very small number of those roads as they approach the goods shed.

 

However, my bridge only has room for 2 lines in addition to the mainlines, not 3.  
 

 

The other line to the station on the prototype passes left of the bridge pier on this photo.

 

So a slight dilemma.

 

Do I do as here, and take one line through the station and leave just one line for in and out of the goods yard, or shift the station building left and run that line left of the bridge pier?

 

I’m not keen on building another bridge, I’ll just throw that out there,  

 

I am leaning towards the former - only a few roads within the goods yard can be modelled and even those will be largely static.

 

That leaves some sort of diverging pointwork like this:

 

 

Any thoughts welcome.

 

Iain

[92220]

Then, at the far end, the Goods Station was much slimmed down on the previous version due to space but here I can model it more in proportion, even though there will only be just over 11% of its total width.

 

 

There are wagon turntables (fairly obvious from the loosely placed track I expect)

 

So the old goods shed needs rebuilding.

 

Which begins with dismantling - I built this too solidly to make this easy, and I really wanted to retain both the roof detail and the side wall because they took ages, and both look right apart from the spider debris.

 

Then building a new shell from 3mm card 

 

 

 

Iain

[Barry O]

The 3 lines under the bridge should be fine. No new bridge required! The jobisagoodun!

 

Baz

[BMacdermott]

Hello Iain 

 

I fully agree with your plan.

 

Having looked back at the actual track plan of the goods shed area, there is a multitude of difficult track formations at the throat. Fine to make if you were building the whole site, but you are having to compress anyway.

 

Much better to 'give an impression' of the track there but concentrate the work effort on the running lines and shed.

 

Brian

 

 

[92220]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

The 3 lines under the bridge should be fine. No new bridge required! The jobisagoodun!

 

Baz

You reckon I should fit both goods lines and the NL DC in there Baz?  Seems too tight to me....  This is at 44.67mm track centres

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Iain 

 

I fully agree with your plan.

 

Having looked back at the actual track plan of the goods shed area, there is a multitude of difficult track formations at the throat. Fine to make if you were building the whole site, but you are having to compress anyway.

 

Much better to 'give an impression' of the track there but concentrate the work effort on the running lines and shed.

 

Brian

 

 

 

That was what I was leaning towards, yes.  There is quite a complex formation in the space of those 2 lines that I would never dream of trying to replicate.

 

Thanks Brian and Baz.  Appreciate your thoughts and any others.

 

Iain

[Barry O]

Iaian.. I meant.. a maximum of three lines there.. .. one for the goods lines..

 

Baz

[92220]

Thanks Baz yes, so left of the dive under there will be the up fast, the goods yard line and the line through the station.  Sorry, I thought you meant 3 in addition to the up fast.  I think that will work ok.  

A couple of hours blitzing the new goods shed today:

 

 

has become:

 

 

 

Apart from making it very narrow as a backdrop on the previous layout, I also made a couple of errors that I will try to rectify this time.  

 

This photo on John Turner’s Flickr stream shows just how enormous the real thing was.  
 

Hopefully this iteration will capture more effectively the imposing backdrop to trains passing Camden No. 1 box and beginning to “descend the bank to Euston” (in my imagination!)

 

Iain