Grovenor Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 AFAIK they use the same chassis The 3F and 4F chassis are significantly different, even drive on a different axle, like you I have only test run my 4F light engine pending conversion to P4 but it was smooth and quiet. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I doubt there's anything wrong with the haulage potential. One thing I have noticed with Bachmann's steamers is that they often take a fair amount of running before they pull as well as their weight would suggest they should. Don't know precisely why, but I believe the tyres have to get polished up nicely to maximise the traction. With the 3F and C class 0-6-0s both good for fifty RTR wagons on level track these are more than good enough tractively. On the 4F, I believe there are tender wheel wiper pick ups? Back these off to very light contact. If more is required Bach's loco construction makes the substitution of a denser ballast like lead for the mazak weights relatively easy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 On the 4F, I believe there are tender wheel wiper pick ups? Back these off to very light contact. The tender wheels are split axle and the wipers run on the axle stubs not the wheel backs so have very little braking effect. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I bought one. Nothing to do with my normal interest but it is the very type that worked at my local station when I was a lad. Just needs a change of number and a shed plate, other than that correct down to the last detail as far as I can tell. At the moment it trundles up and down with 8 or 9 wagons. The real thing never did handle much more than about 14. The only review I read was by Tony Wright and he seemed to like it. Bachmann do seem to be aiming higher with every new release. I would be interested to hear just what adverse comments are being made. Cheaper than the other version in absolute terms. In value for money terms it's got to be at least twice as good. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have just bought one of these,43875. Very happy with it. Overalk look is spot on. 43875 was a Bath loco in 1950 and I have found a couple of photos of it which suggest it is 'right'. In his review Tony Wright is unsure of the firebox as modelled. From the photos it seems ok but it is partly obscured by another 4F. Another photo shows the tender vents fitted. As to haulage, it is not troubled on my S&D branch. Very nice. Saving for the Fowler tender version.......... Rob. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Picked up 43875 too, being an S&D loco it was a must! Must say it's a beauty! But sadly it did have a few problems. The first was the one of the rear drive wheel pick-up was out of alignment and rubbing on the spokes. It also seem to be a bit of a loud runner. Has anyone else had these problems? Still it's an amazing model , just a shame mine had issues. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have just bought one of these,43875. Very happy with it. Overalk look is spot on. 43875 was a Bath loco in 1950 and I have found a couple of photos of it which suggest it is 'right'. In his review Tony Wright is unsure of the firebox as modelled. From the photos it seems ok but it is partly obscured by another 4F. Another photo shows the tender vents fitted. As to haulage, it is not troubled on my S&D branch. Very nice. Saving for the Fowler tender version.......... Rob. If your going to renumber the Fowler tender version as an S&D loco be carefull. I havn't yet found any S&D right hand drive 4F that has this Fowler tender !!, and I've studied 50+ publications ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I keep thinking about buying one, but my eye is continuously drawn to the horizontal join in front of the firebox. Does this unsettle others? Maybe a bit of grot will blend it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Higgi Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I keep thinking about buying one, but my eye is continuously drawn to the horizontal join in front of the firebox. Does this unsettle others? Maybe a bit of grot will blend it out. That seam above the middle splasher? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have not yet bought a Bachmann 4f as I am confused by the conflicting reviews in the big 4 magazines. (I guess I am also hoping the price drops after Christmas). The haulage claims vary as do the comments on quality, running and just how robust this model is. One factor is the advertising revenue from manufacturing companies prevents the mags from being too critical. This does not apply here as we have a free press. You just can’t beat the help from rmweb so please comment. I wouldn't hesitate Alan - go and buy one. I've got two. Here's one of them hauling 12 wagons plus brake with ease. Good performance straight out of the box, getting better after an hour or two on the layout! Jeff 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted October 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2013 Nice weathering, and that viaduct looks pretty impressive too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Super weathering! She certainly looks the part! Might give mine a dusting in the future. Here's my one in action. As I mentioned early she sounds a tad loud, tell me what you think. (That's if you can hear her over the double header 7F's)! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted October 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2013 88.....No issues with mine at all. Double headed 7F look the business....very nice. Combe Martin....noted your comments re the tender but I am not that worried. The Armstrongs aquired various fowler tenders towards the 60's. Also others ran on the S&D....44102 springs to mind. In essence what we have here is a very fine model of the 4F. I intend to enjoy mine and use it on my personal dollop of. the S&D and be damned. There are those here who strive for perfection. I say carry on and I will be the first to applaude there very fine efforts. However,my modelling has to fit around family and work. To me the overall picture I look to achieve is more important. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Did any of the versions produced by Bachmann run on the Midland & Great Northern? They had some 4F but I have no idea of which type. Felix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I keep thinking about buying one, but my eye is continuously drawn to the horizontal join in front of the firebox. Does this unsettle others? Maybe a bit of grot will blend it out. Until I read this I had not seen this. Now I can not see anything else on the 4f! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I have not yet bought a Bachmann 4f as I am confused by the conflicting reviews in the big 4 magazines. (I guess I am also hoping the price drops after Christmas). The haulage claims vary as do the comments on quality, running and just how robust this model is. One factor is the advertising revenue from manufacturing companies prevents the mags from being too critical. This does not apply here as we have a free press. You just can’t beat the help from rmweb so please comment. Haulage is a bit variable. On a you tube review a 4f struggles on 24 wagons, on my layout Tony's 4f pulled 27 with a slight slip. Edited October 30, 2013 by Bob O Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Higgi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Until I read this I had not seen this. Now I can not see anything else on the 4f! me too but it's just a bit of careful filing. If ever I buy something and not have to repaint/renumber/add weight/retender/rechimmney/detail or modify it in someway I'll give up the hobby! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted October 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2013 Did any of the versions produced by Bachmann run on the Midland & Great Northern? They had some 4F but I have no idea of which type. Felix Allocations in BR days can be found here: http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=105&type=S&page=alloc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Combe Martin....noted your comments re the tender but I am not that worried. The Armstrongs aquired various fowler tenders towards the 60's. Also others ran on the S&D....44102 springs to mind. Fair enough if your not bothered, but for the benefit of others who may be reading this, ALL the photographs (where the difference can be seen) of right hand drive 4Fs with Fowler tenders on the S&D (including 44102) show them attached to the 'earlier' type tender (not the Bachmann one) without the huge coal doors into the coal space. Also, the position of the water vents is different, though that would be easy to change. There are NO pictures showing the 'later' Bachmann type tender. The only S&D 4F with the Bachmann type tender is 44222 which is a left hand drive loco (Hornby model). Photos of this loco show it with this tender definitely from 1963, but it may have acquired it before then. I'm not saying Bachmann have produced an incorrect model, they havn't. They've clearly stated it's based on a preserved 4F. I'm just frustrated that I can't correctly renumber it ! And if anyone can find a picture that shows different to the above I will be very happy. Edited October 31, 2013 by Combe Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Higgi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks for that. I would have gone with the preserved one as it was a Barrow Road one and worked up throgh Yate. More research! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Do the pick ups on the tender preclude closing up the gap between the engine and tender? Are they permanently coupled? David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted November 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2013 Do the pick ups on the tender preclude closing up the gap between the engine and tender? Are they permanently coupled? David C The tender coupling is a slider with adjustment from virtually touching the loco to a scale 2ft or more. The pickups don't interfere with the coupling though I had to carefully tuck the wires away from the first tender axle as they were dragging it. The tender can be uncoupled by unplugging the pick up wires from their tender sockets though it is a fiddle.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Thanks for that info. Back to contemplating what form my next layout will take - it is likely to be LMS. David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Haulage is a bit variable. On a you tube review a 4f struggles on 24 wagons, on my layout Tony's 4f pulled 27 with a slight slip. The Railway Modeller claims 28 and Midland or were they LMS Fowler 4Fs? - RMweb here claims 34 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Of course it all depends on how free running 'your' wagons are. I don't think it's a good indicator for people to quote haulage with their own wagons as all it needs is one or two to have a stiff wheelset and the test is out the window. I have a train of Bachmann and kit built minerals sitting on the layout and make up the numbers to 45 for test purposes. All new locos are tested to haul this lot and most will with ease, even a Bachmann 2MT being converted to EM and only the front halves of the rods fitted i.e. a 2-4-2 and it could move the train. If my Bachmann 3F is good for 45 then I don't see a problem for the 4F which is slightly heavier. I'll let you all know when I've converted mine. Another thing to check, as already mentioned are the tender pick-ups, they should be as light as possible against the axles. I won't mention the fact that the converted locos have steel wheels and the modern Bachmann wheels are a slippery chrome plated tread which needs some wearing in. Old Airfix 4F on the test train. 'Perseverance' compensated chassis, no extra weight. Dave Franks 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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