Simond Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ray excellent link, thanks Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Anyway, have just completed 6 months catch up on Dock Green and the fire escape and the view blocker factory are a masterpiece Chaz. Thanks for that, Paul. It was a scary model to make, and I had thought long and hard but the result was as good as I hoped it would be (thanks in large part to Peter Harvey's etch design work). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 A couple of weeks ago I was in the position of having 10 months of RMWeb to catch up with. An impossible task really, but Dock Green was one of the few threads which did get my full attention, and well worth it too. Thanks for that. The positive and helpful comments from (bluddy good) modellers is always an encouragement. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I fit brass tie-bars to the Slater's vans and wagons. What brass strip do you use, Chris? Sourced from where (who?)....The tie bar on the Parkside MOGO is 1.3mm wide, the microstrip supplied by Slaters is 1.8mm - but I can't find a dimension for the prototype. I think the Parkside dimension looks right. Chaz PS - off to the Reading trade show on Saturday so should be able to find some suitable brass strip there. Edited November 30, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 All my modelling time this week has been used on making wire armatures for trees for the FVRR, but I did snatch a liilte time yesterday evening on the MOGO. The door clips are a tiny fragment of plastic. Before I do anything to parts this small I cover a section of the bench with cloth. You only get eight of these in the kit and you need them all. Should one find its way on to the carpet..... I found the fixing pins on these too big for the holes. measuring the pins showed the to be fatter top to bottom than they are side to side. in the end I decided to reduce their height a little with a fine tooth needle file (#4) and to open the holes out to 0.8mm. Don't overdo this - it's good if they are a snug fit before they are welded in place with solvent, it makes setting them upright easier and they should be more firmly fixed. Thanks to the cloth none of these tiny fittings were grabbed by the carpet monster and all are safely in place on the van. Chaz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I am always surprised when there are no spares for very small parts which can easily fall prey to the carpet monster. The marginal cost of making a mould tool which has spares of small parts surely must be small compared to the overall costs. Unfortunately not so, the cost of injection mould tools are enormous and are in the thousands of pounds (say, £3K - £20K for a 1-16 parts tool with a run of 1000+ over several years) whereas the cost of a replacement sprue with the lost parts on is literally pence or even fractions of a penny, depending on the size of the run. Andrew Hastie at Parkside explained it to me once when I lost some locks from an SR van, and the figures knocked my socks off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately not so, the cost of injection mould tools are enormous and are in the thousands of pounds (say, £3K - £20K for a 1-16 parts tool with a run of 1000+ over several years) whereas the cost of a replacement sprue with the lost parts on is literally pence or even fractions of a penny, depending on the size of the run. Andrew Hastie at Parkside explained it to me once when I lost some locks from an SR van, and the figures knocked my socks off. I would imagine that adding an extra small part say 9 on the sprue instead of 8 would not make a significant cost to the tool seeing as it is a copy of the others and probably these days would be added by a Computer controlled machine. Providing they had the foresight to do it at the time of making the tool. Compare that to the cost of handling and posting out extra sprues. If it was adding another part which was different the cost would be high. Don Edited December 4, 2015 by Donw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 I am always surprised when there are no spares for very small parts which can easily fall prey to the carpet monster. The marginal cost of making a mould tool which has spares of small parts surely must be small compared to the overall costs. Van looking good Chaz, up to your usual high standard. In my experience you are much more likely to get spare "little bits" in an etched brass kit than in a plastic one. Connoisseur kits come to mind. Still taking care can avoid the need for spare bits. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Unfortunately not so, the cost of injection mould tools are enormous and are in the thousands of pounds (say, £3K - £20K for a 1-16 parts tool with a run of 1000+ over several years) whereas the cost of a replacement sprue with the lost parts on is literally pence or even fractions of a penny, depending on the size of the run. Andrew Hastie at Parkside explained it to me once when I lost some locks from an SR van, and the figures knocked my socks off. So maybe a sensible move would be to include an extra sprue of these tiny parts (which I think are ABS mouldings) as a routine move? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 There must be some point in the spectrum, either of volume of sales, or of volume of the additional part, where the curves cross: one way it would be cheaper to add the extra bits within an existing tool, and the other it's easier/cheaper to hand out (or include, or even sell) spare sprues. I'd have thought that in this case, it might have been worth sinking a couple of extra cavities when they were making the existing tool, but it certainly wouldn't be worth thinking about modifications. Injection moulding tools are ferociously expensive for sure. If they are as much as £20k for a van, and if production runs are of the order of 1000 pieces, it does somewhat justify the kit prices - twenty quid of amortisation (plus finance costs) in every box! And of course, Chaz is right, don't lose them in the first place ! (Counsel of perfection!) Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 There must be some point in the spectrum, either of volume of sales, or of volume of the additional part, where the curves cross: one way it would be cheaper to add the extra bits within an existing tool, and the other it's easier/cheaper to hand out (or include, or even sell) spare sprues. I'd have thought that in this case, it might have been worth sinking a couple of extra cavities when they were making the existing tool, but it certainly wouldn't be worth thinking about modifications. Injection moulding tools are ferociously expensive for sure. If they are as much as £20k for a van, and if production runs are of the order of 1000 pieces, it does somewhat justify the kit prices - twenty quid of amortisation (plus finance costs) in every box! And of course, Chaz is right, don't lose them in the first place ! (Counsel of perfection!) Best Simon It is indeed not a cheap business. A couple of years ago I asked for a quote for an 0 gauge RTR unfitted 4 wheel van and wagon on a common chassis. Design and tooling was approximately £38K based on a minimum run of 1,000 vans and 1,000 wagons. On top of that goes the per piece cost of production, packaging, shipping and, of course, Mr Osborne's 20% appropriation. That said, it adds little to the price if uncomplicated extras are planned into the original design and tools. This is what we did with the accessory tool kits for the Ixion Hudswell Clarke and Fowler diesel and the extra safety valve bonnets, bell and toolbox on the Minerva Peckett. Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2015 It is indeed not a cheap business. A couple of years ago I asked for a quote for an 0 gauge RTR unfitted 4 wheel van and wagon on a common chassis. Design and tooling was approximately £38K based on a minimum run of 1,000 vans and 1,000 wagons. On top of that goes the per piece cost of production, packaging, shipping and, of course, Mr Osborne's 20% appropriation. That said, it adds little to the price if uncomplicated extras are planned into the original design and tools. This is what we did with the accessory tool kits for the Ixion Hudswell Clarke and Fowler diesel and the extra safety valve bonnets, bell and toolbox on the Minerva Peckett. Regards, Chris That's what I mean by foresight Chris. Taking that bit of trouble to consider the modeller. The end result is customer satisfaction. Also Chaz is right thinking about putting a cloth down before the small bits go AWOL. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 There is a small psychological bonus to putting a cloth on the bench. When I was cutting the parts from the sprues I was determined not to damage the cloth. So I used a very light slicing action, from both sides. The bonus? A light action, with a number of gentle passes eliminates the risk of such tiny parts pinging away, never to be found again. The cloth will not help if the part is launched into the jaws of the carpet monster. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Went off to the Reading GoG trade show with tree stuff (for the FVRR) in mind - I was determined not to buy any more kits, too many piled up waiting for attention already. BUT I saw Pete Waterman on his JLTRT stand with some very nice SR vans. I talked to him for some time and he showed me a kit. The moulded body is all one piece, the floor and underframe another. there are just a few extra bits to add and these all fit into pockets or holes. Pete said he could build and paint one in an hour. Sounds like the next best thing to RTR, does it not? Avid kit makers might think that these are cheating - but if time is short and you want to increase the number of vans on your layout then these excellent models are the bizz. They are produced in a number of variations, for instance the bodies come in even planked, uneven and plywood. At £40 each one of each of them did not do too much harm to the wallet! I don't have them yet as the kits are made up to order but as soon as I do I will post details of them here. http://www.justliketherealthing.co.uk/o-gauge-wagon-van-kits-southern-region-van-kits-c-7_85.html Chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 I am always surprised when there are no spares for very small parts which can easily fall prey to the carpet monster. The marginal cost of making a mould tool which has spares of small parts surely must be small compared to the overall costs. Van looking good Chaz, up to your usual high standard. There's occasionally spares for small parts on Slaters kits, not so on Parkside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is it the JLTRT kits that folk have had trouble with things like the buffers spacing? I have been tempted myself... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is it the JLTRT kits that folk have had trouble with things like the buffers spacing? I have been tempted myself... Don't know anything about that. Didn't think to check to be honest. When I get the kits I will measure the buffer spacing - if it's wrong I will post here (along with possible strategies). Now about all these damned trees.... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 There's occasionally spares for small parts on Slaters kits, not so on Parkside. Yes, and there are also often a large number of parts that are left over. It's obviously cheaper to produce sprues with lots of parts on, some of which are needed in one kit, some in another. I used to keep all the spare parts but when I had accumulated shoe-boxes full of them I realised the pointlessness. I didn't know what I had or where it was so the space it filled was more useful. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) At the Reading show I also got some nickel-silver strip - 1.5 x 0.5mm - from Phil', he of Hobby Holidays. Should be just right for axleguard tie-bars. I will have a go later today at fitting one of the Slater's vans with these and report back. WTS Chaz PS - ironic that JLTRT also produce the BR standard van, also with their very simplified kit approach - so much less work involved in putting one of these on the track compared with the Slater's kit and a definite time saver. Edited December 6, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 At the Reading show I also got some nickel-silver strip - 1.5 x 0.5mm - from Phil', he of Hobby Holidays. Should be just right for axleguard tie-bars. I will have a go later today at fitting one of the Slater's vans with these and report back. WTS The best laid plans.... Taking up the old stair carpet took rather longer than I expected, so no modelling time yesterday - apart from a little bark grooving - see the next posting on my FVRR topic. I hope to make a bit more progress with the vans today but that pesky carpet must go to the tip.... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Is it the JLTRT kits that folk have had trouble with things like the buffers spacing? I have been tempted myself... They certainly did..... I built the Fruit D whose buffers were a good 'half a hole' too closely spaced and an LMS van which was 'out' but less so. I believe the B.R. vans are also incorrectly spaced. I seem to remember a thread where JLRT is stated to have said that the errors will only be corrected when the moulds need replacing. BTW does anyone know if the CCT also has the same error? Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Chaz, You left your scarf on the Minerva stand at Reading on Saturday. It is being held hostage in the wilds of Wales. The ransom is... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Chaz, You left your scarf on the Minerva stand at Reading on Saturday. It is being held hostage in the wilds of Wales. The ransom is... Chris As I have five others (don't ask!) there is no hurry at all for the return of this choice item... Oh, hang on, could the ransom be the price of a Minerva Peckett, by any chance? Edited December 7, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 They certainly did..... I built the Fruit D whose buffers were a good 'half a hole' too closely spaced and an LMS van which was 'out' but less so. I believe the B.R. vans are also incorrectly spaced. I seem to remember a thread where JLRT is stated to have said that the errors will only be corrected when the moulds need replacing. BTW does anyone know if the CCT also has the same error? Ray. So, does one plug and redrill? In which case plug with what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have not tried this personally, but... If it is possible to lay the buffer plank down level so the outside is lower most, I would be tempted to place thin self-adhesive tape over the outside, lay the plank down, and pour an epoxy resin (with talc filler, maybe) into the holes. Assuming you have degreased & abraded the holes, I would expect a very good bond and a reasonable surface. HTH Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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