Dock Green

[chaz]

The grip isn't incredibly strong, certainly nowhere near as strong as a screw or spring clamp could be, and I don't know how it compares with yours Chaz, but they are certainly useful and do the job.

 

The magnets I use are strong and with the plastic parts clamped to the steel block they are unlikely to move. Indeed the grip is tight enough with two magnets in place to make adjusting the fit require a quite deliberate force to move the parts.

 

Looking at the photo you posted I suspect that the difference is down to a different type of magnet and the fact that they are stepped back a little from the edge of the clamps - the inverse cube law rears its head!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz. I could just about squeeze another van/wagon in but gets tight in the fiddleyard then.

 

But then it really doesn't matter. Your train lengths match the size of the yard - much like the seven plus brake do for Dock Green. Nobody at a show has ever said "those goods trains are all too short". It's all in proportion - trains and space.

 

ATB

 

Chaz

[raymw]

Looking for my double angle clamp thingy (which I previously mentioned), I came across something I'd made earlier. A length of 1inch ali angle with the corner cut out for most of it's length in the centre 3 or 4 inches. The angle is the sort of stuff sold by B&Q, and others, about 1.5mm thick web. This still had a few wooden clothes pegs, with the pointy ends cut off, clipped onto the ali. Said angle is easily adjusted to be exactly at 90degrees, and it can be fitted either inside or outside of the bits you want to glue or solder and allows easy access to both sides of the corner/edge you want to join. If needed, the aluminium is thin enough that magnets could be used both sides, or fix a bit of steel/tin can to it. Not quite as stable as a steel block, I guess, but easy enough for anyone to make/use, at minimum cost. Plenty of ways to skin a cat.

[chaz]

Looking for my double angle clamp thingy (which I previously mentioned), I came across something I'd made earlier. A length of 1inch ali angle with the corner cut out for most of it's length in the centre 3 or 4 inches. The angle is the sort of stuff sold by B&Q, and others, about 1.5mm thick web. This still had a few wooden clothes pegs, with the pointy ends cut off, clipped onto the ali. Said angle is easily adjusted to be exactly at 90degrees, and it can be fitted either inside or outside of the bits you want to glue or solder and allows easy access to both sides of the corner/edge you want to join. If needed, the aluminium is thin enough that magnets could be used both sides, or fix a bit of steel/tin can to it. Not quite as stable as a steel block, I guess, but easy enough for anyone to make/use, at minimum cost. Plenty of ways to skin a cat.

 

Thanks for that; as you say there are plenty of ways to skin this particular cat.

 

Now when I start making buildings in card and wood for the FVRR I will be assembling them with PVA.....PVA doesn't stick to steel....

[chaz]

A final entry for the brake van fest?

 

 

This was taken on Dock Green before the brickwork received its layer of sooty grime. The unfitted van on the left is from the Slater's kit. The fitted (actually only piped) van on the right is a Connoisseur brass kit.

 

Why are the duckets different sizes? Which one is right?

 

Apologies to Buckjumper - those rain strips - YUK!

 

Chaz

Edited December 11, 2015 by chaz

[Siberian Snooper]

A final entry for the brake van fest?

 

 

This was taken on Dock Green before the brickwork received its layer of sooty grime. The unfitted van on the left is from the Slater's kit. The fitted (actually only piped) van on the right is a Connoisseur brass kit.

 

Why are the duckets different sizes? Which one is right?

 

Apologies to Buckjumper - those rain strips - YUK!

 

Chaz

Those rain strips look terrible, when I have been on chimney sweeping ( shove a thin stick down the pipe) duties on a standard brake, I don't remember them being anything like that.

[chaz]

Grabbed the time for a couple of small jobs on the van this morning. I put all the bits I have not yet fitted inside the van and weighed it - 88g. I cut a piece of 1.4mm lead sheet to approx' 60 x 40mm - this weighed 40g. I fixed it to the middle of the floor inside with self-tapping screws.

 

 

I don't mind the heads of the screws showing - it's in line with my if "you can't see it when it's on the track" attitude...

 

 

I also cut a piece of 2.1mm (80 thou') HIP to fit as a spreader to try to correct the bowing sides. The thickness is not that important but it wants to be thick enough not to bow itself when fitted. A strip 36mm wide fits nicely inside the doors. I initially cut it to 56mm long and then trimmed it to get the required effect. 55.4mm seems about right.

 

 

Consulting numerous photos of prototype vans suggests that the tops of the doors are pretty well flush with the edge of the roof. A useful check on the fit of the spreader is to pop the roof in place and have a look, before welding it in place.

 

I will switch my attention to the underframe next, before adding the remaining detail to the body - some of which is quite delicate.

 

Chaz

Edited December 12, 2015 by chaz

[Simond]

Are there some negative vibes with this van? The bowing sides looked rather unpleasant, was that all distortion or a trick of the camera?

 

Best

Simon

[chaz]

Are there some negative vibes with this van? The bowing sides looked rather unpleasant, was that all distortion or a trick of the camera?

 

Best

Simon

 

Not a trick of the camera Simon, the sides, ends and floor have all shown a marked propensity to curve.

 

 

The joint between the sides and ends pulls the ends flat and keeps them flat, similarly the sides keep the floor flat. However it does need the addition of a spreader to push the bow out of the sides at the top. It could be argued that the roof will do that but I can't see how the sides could be held flat for the roof to be added without a spreader of some kind.

 

This is not the first time I have encountered this problem with a Slater's kit - I remember some time ago getting a replacement side from Slater's as one in a kit was badly distorted. However last year I built two of their van kits and don't remember encountering this problem at all with them - so the quality seems variable.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Now why didn't I think of this?

 

 

Somebody (I can't remember who) that I was talking to at the Reading GoG trade show suggested this idea. A small size empty baked-bean can inverted and with a hole for the bottle chain-drilled and then filed with a half-round. A dedicated paint brush with a shortened handle in 5mm hole at the side. Spill proof? Not absolutely guaranteed but you would have to be exceptionally clumsy...

 

Chaz

Edited December 13, 2015 by chaz

[Fettster42]

Hi Chas, here is the link to a photo on the EDM site, similar to the York ones. Although mine are a rather fetching shade of bright yellow plastic!!!

 

http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Scenic/Clamps1.jpg

 

The cement bottle stand is a good idea. My dad always had a block of 2x4 with a hole milled in the for the oblong mek-pak bottle.

 

I use a block of dense foam meant for storing jars, but is a good firm fit. Just don't do what I did which was remove bottle from stand to bring closer to you, knock it over and the wonder what possessed you to take it out of stand on the first place!!!

 

Leigh

[chaz]

Hi Chas, here is the link to a photo on the EDM site, similar to the York ones. Although mine are a rather fetching shade of bright yellow plastic!!!

 

http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Scenic/Clamps1.jpg

 

The cement bottle stand is a good idea. My dad always had a block of 2x4 with a hole milled in the for the oblong mek-pak bottle.

 

I use a block of dense foam meant for storing jars, but is a good firm fit. Just don't do what I did which was remove bottle from stand to bring closer to you, knock it over and the wonder what possessed you to take it out of stand on the first place!!!

 

Leigh

 

Thanks for that Leigh. I think I may have to invest in a set of the clamps the next time I send off an order to EDM. It remains to be seen whether the magnets are powerful enough to pull the bowing sides of a Slater's kit flat while they are welded.

 

I did once knock a jar of solvent over - not good! I have no desire to repeat the experience so I have in the past used BlueTak to fasten bottles to a piece of card but I think the empty can is better.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I am going to have quite a few vans to finish off for the St Albans show on 16th/17th Jan' and only about three weeks to do it in.

 

3 x SR vans (JLTRT) - always assuming they arrive in time

1 x BR standard van (Slater's)

1 x ex-GW MOGO (Parkside)

1 x BR insulated van (Slater's)

 

All but the last will be painted BR bauxite, and weathered if I have time. That little lot should bring up the proportion of vans to opens to more like late 50s/ early 60s levels!

[BG John]

Thanks for that Leigh. I think I may have to invest in a set of the clamps the next time I send off an order to EDM. It remains to be seen whether the magnets are powerful enough to pull the bowing sides of a Slater's kit flat while they are welded.

The magnets look a lot bigger than the York Modelmaking ones. Mine are quite weak (or maybe gentle is a better word as I think that can be a good thing for some jobs), and certainly wouldn't pull anything straight, except maybe a sheet of paper or very thin plastic sheet. I'd be interested to know how powerful the EDM ones are.

[Fettster42]

The EDM one are very strong. Perhaps even bordering on too strong as the have a tendency to jump together when they get even vaguely close.

 

I have them out just now so measured them, they are 42mm long on the outside part, the inside part is 30mm

[BG John]

So bigger than the York ones then. Mine are 29mm outside and 19mm inside. I got them to build 4mm wagons as well as 7mm.

[marc smith]

Are there some negative vibes with this van? The bowing sides looked rather unpleasant, was that all distortion or a trick of the camera?

 

Best

Simon

There are sometimes problems with van & wagon sides bowing during construction, and this appears to be most manufacturers

apologies if this has been mentioned before (and it may even have been me that mentioned it

 

But when building plastic box vans, you should really drill a hole in the floor - this is because plastic solvent fumes remain inside the van,

and it can even distort & warp at a later date. Of course, the vents in Chaz's van here should suffice,

and it's a good idea to do what Chaz has done, and use on offcut of plastic card to strengthen the sides in any case

 

Cheers

Marc

Edited December 14, 2015 by marc smith

[chaz]

The EDM one are very strong. Perhaps even bordering on too strong as the have a tendency to jump together when they get even vaguely close.

 

I have them out just now so measured them, they are 42mm long on the outside part, the inside part is 30mm

 

Very strong is good - but too strong? All magnets will jump together when they are brought close enough, you just have to be aware of it. You will note in my snap above (on post #3523) that I put my magnets on the bench spaced far enough apart to make it possible to pick them up without the others joining in!

 

Chaz

Edited December 14, 2015 by chaz

[chaz]

it's a good idea to ..... use an offcut of plastic card to strengthen the sides in any case

 

Marc

 

Quite so Mark. Most people will pick up a van by its doors - it doesn't take much of a squeeze to break the glue joint between the sides and the roof. I have one or two vans where this has happened - the roof isn't going to come off as it's also glued to the ends but handling the model has weakened it. (If the roof ever does detach I will take the chance to glue in a spreader piece to avoid the same thing happening again.

 

Chaz

Edited December 14, 2015 by chaz

[101]

it's a good idea to do what Chaz has done, and use on offcut of plastic card to strengthen the sides in any case

 

Cheers

Marc

I usually use a couple of cut down pieces of sprue to do the same

 

 

Edited to add the missing word "use"

Edited December 15, 2015 by 101

[chaz]

I usually a couple of cut down pieces of sprue to do the same

 

Yes, that would do it. It doesn't really matter what you use, providing it's stiff enough not to bow from the tension in the straightened sides.

 

Chaz

[Strathwood]

There are sometimes problems with van & wagon sides bowing during construction, and this appears to be most manufacturers

apologies if this has been mentioned before (and it may even have been me that mentioned it

 

But when building plastic box vans, you should really drill a hole in the floor - this is because plastic solvent fumes remain inside the van,

and it can even distort & warp at a later date. Of course, the vents in Chaz's van here should suffice,

and it's a good idea to do what Chaz has done, and use on offcut of plastic card to strengthen the sides in any case

 

Cheers

Marc

Agree with the vents as I have seen some nice models start to warp over a short space of time where the builders did not allow the build up to escape. How about using off cuts of wood as a block to space out the sides and to provide some real weight to the wagon at the same time thus dispencing with the lead. As we all stash off cuts of wood for a rainy day as we never know when they might come in handy...

 

Kevin

[Simond]

Return to the old days, wooden van bodies with overlays...

 

I suppose the overlays are a bit more high tech (and quite a bit more expensive) but it seems like a good starting point for solid bodied vehicles.

 

Plus ca change...

 

Simon

[railwayrod]

Hi Chaz

 

When I build my vans I put two vertical internal partitions into the body either side of the door recess. These I cut s couple of mm's short of the top of the sides so that they do not interfere with the fit of the roof.This really keeps the sides upright and ensures that they do not warp. I agree that if the van is totally enclosed a hole in the bottom is essential to allow solvent fumes to escape, a van with vents in does not require this.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Rod

[2ManySpams]

Ditto what the others have said on bracing and holes for vapour to escape - both great ideas and worthwhile doing.

 

Looking at my own stockpile of wagon kits I've also discovered I've not enough vans. Looking through the Slaters and Parkside options, I think I'll be following Chaz into the JLTRT route for further BR and SR variants.

 

Must stop buying opens.