chaz Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 A short video of the coal train moves, shot at Taunton on Sunday morning before the doors opened. Please excuse the distracting background and the extraneous noises off. Chaz 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr2 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Very nice! Thanks for posting the video Chaz - next best thing to being there for those of us still yet to be able to get to see DG... Keith Edited October 30, 2015 by keefr2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Very nice! Thanks for posting the video Chaz - next best thing to being there for those of us still yet to be able to get to see DG... Keith I only wish I had shot more clips, I will try to get more at future shows. I have a mini tripod which should allow me to get some alternative views - like looking down from a bridge. Most of the clips in the coal train video were shot with my compact camera sitting on the track (with a piece of thin card under it as an insulator). One was shot with the camera on a small box to gain a little height (can you spot which one?). I will never, ever shoot video hand-held - one of my pet hates - the results look so amateurish. It's a pity my Nikon is so bulky - it has discouraged me from using it, but the HD video that it shoots is much, much higher quality. I am tempted to give it a go though, a longer lens might well put the view right in amongst the action even though the camera is off to one side of the baseboard. Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Superb Chaz,thanks for posting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fettster42 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi Chas, with regard to wagon weighting the advice given to me was that they should all be of a consistent weight. So if all yours are the same weight they should be ok. The advantage of using a standard, such as GOG, is that it means they are compatible with others should you wish to use them elsewhere. Much like other standards such as coupler heights etc... if you are consistent and don't wish to interact with anyone else then its fine!! Leigh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Hi Chas, with regard to wagon weighting the advice given to me was that they should all be of a consistent weight. So if all yours are the same weight they should be ok. The advantage of using a standard, such as GOG, is that it means they are compatible with others should you wish to use them elsewhere. Much like other standards such as coupler heights etc... if you are consistent and don't wish to interact with anyone else then its fine!! Leigh "if you are consistent and don't wish to interact with anyone else then its fine!!" Well, yes, pretty much. I do have a few brass wagons which, by virtue of the white-metal parts, are a fair bit heavier. I wouldn't want to bring all the stock up to the weight of say my Connoisseur bogie-bolster - that might require a ridiculous quantity of lead! What is possibly relevant is that trains on Dock Green are limited to seven and a brake, so really heavy loads are not a feature. As for interacting, the stock is only run on Dock Green and we never have visiting items at shows - they just wouldn't fit in. A pannier tank in Dock Green Yard? - perish the thought - bad enough someone suggesting in an earlier posting that my Peckett E is a GWR loco. NO IT'S NOT. DEFFO. Let's get that straight once and for all. Oh no, I've switched into rant mode. Must go and lie down. Chaz Edited October 30, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I've been buying plastic O gauge wagons ready built on eBay, and they range from having no added weight, to around 375g. Why anyone would want wagons three times the recommended weight is beyond me, but when I get round to cutting a hole in the floor to investigate, I hope to be able to remove enough to weight the light ones. The heavy one isn't free running, so a train of them must have needed a pretty powerful loco! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2015 Some interesting topics in the above posts. PVA when wet may have some acetic acid in its composition and hence attack the lead (rather like rainwater be slightly carbonic acid) The Guild standard has to cover all makes of wagons and those whitemetal ones like ABS (GWR Iron mink for example) are definitely heavy so the standard is somewhat high. If you do have some extra heavy wagons keeping them near the engine may avoid problems. Typically problems occur when heavy wgons are at the end of a longish train especially of tight curves. Do you check your wheels when building the kits I have found some to be out of gauge when supplied. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 I've been buying plastic O gauge wagons ready built on eBay, and they range from having no added weight, to around 375g. Why anyone would want wagons three times the recommended weight is beyond me, but when I get round to cutting a hole in the floor to investigate, I hope to be able to remove enough to weight the light ones. The heavy one isn't free running, so a train of them must have needed a pretty powerful loco! WOW! Maybe they were trying to get into the Guiness Book of Records? If it's a van it may be more productive to carefully remove the roof. I did know someone who filled (yes almost up to the top edge of the top plank) a Peco open wagon with lead - it was so heavy that the nylon springs, which normally are smile shaped bent the other way to glum setting. Insanity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Do you check your wheels when building the kits I have found some to be out of gauge when supplied. Don Yes, Don I do, but it looks like W28894 might have slipped through. In any case I would have pulled at least one wheel off of each axle as this wagon has WEP compensators fitted. These have inside bearings with the user cutting the axles short with only a small amount projecting from the wheel hubs. So I don't really have any excuse do I? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 WOW! Maybe they were trying to get into the Guiness Book of Records? If it's a van it may be more productive to carefully remove the roof. I did know someone who filled (yes almost up to the top edge of the top plank) a Peco open wagon with lead - it was so heavy that the nylon springs, which normally are smile shaped bent the other way to glum setting. Insanity? It's a Parkside NB van, and their NB coal wagon that has a load. The coal wagon needs new wheels fitted as the axles bent in the post, so I'll go in underneath that one while I'm working on it. I don't think they bent under the weight, as it would have shown up in the eBay photos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2015 Having seen some of the sometimes appalling builds on the GoG second hand stall, I'm not sure I'd take the risk of buying a ready built kit off the interweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Having seen some of the sometimes appalling builds on the GoG second hand stall, I'm not sure I'd take the risk of buying a ready built kit off the interweb. The ones I've got aren't bad, but all have faults. I study the photos carefully before bidding. They're not up to the standard I'd like to achieve, but for starting out in a new scale, and at around half the price of the unbuilt kit, they're OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Melt? Sounds potentially hazardous! I think I would rather cut the lead before glueing it in place. it's not the water that's the problem it's the PVA that produces Lead Acetate as the PVA can break down to Acetic Acid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yes, Don I do, but it looks like W28894 might have slipped through. In any case I would have pulled at least one wheel off of each axle as this wagon has WEP compensators fitted. These have inside bearings with the user cutting the axles short with only a small amount projecting from the wheel hubs. So I don't really have any excuse do I? Chaz I have found sometimes that having removed a wheel it doesn't seem to hold the axle so well when re-fitted. Perhaps a drop of something on the axle would help one of those Loctite numbers would suit if I could remember which number did what. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) I have found sometimes that having removed a wheel it doesn't seem to hold the axle so well when re-fitted. Perhaps a drop of something on the axle would help one of those Loctite numbers would suit if I could remember which number did what. Don You may be right Don. I always paint the axles and I would have thought that a good "shoulder" of paint in the corner where the wheel and axle meet would do the trick. It is only since the coal train started running on DG - so the last show - that W28894 has been in use. I will keep an eye on it to see how it fares in the future - and there will always be spares in case it needs replacing. It is one of my favourites so I am keen to include it. Chaz Edited October 31, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2015 How are the couplings standing up to exhibition use Chaz? I started fitting them to a couple of my wagons but had concerns about their robustness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 How are the couplings standing up to exhibition use Chaz? I started fitting them to a couple of my wagons but had concerns about their robustness. Very well. I have taken a few simple precautions. I have simple wire "lifters"... ...so that a coupling which is pushed hard against a stop block has its loop lifted clear. The couplings are reasonably well protected whilst the wagons are in cassettes. Most of my couplings have been in use for some ten years. In that time a few loops have needed adjusting and two or three glue joints (10 minute Araldite behind the buffer beam) have come loose and needed fixing. I can only recall replacing one coupling. So, I would say that provided you take care of your stock Dinghams are a good choice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Having seen some of the sometimes appalling builds on the GoG second hand stall, I'm not sure I'd take the risk of buying a ready built kit off the interweb. I always have a quick look and usually, after an involuntary shudder, pass quickly on. I did pick up one LNER unfitted van which had been assembled reasonably well but had terrible paint. Repainted and weathered it now trundles about on Dock Green. I suspect that anything "tasty" might be snapped up before it gets to the museum of junk GoG second hand stall. A reasonable perk for the volunteers who sort it all out, I think. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 I found P208460. I had popped it back into one of the coal train cassettes, to get it home. I weighed the wagon with no load - 96gm - and checked the back-to-backs - well within tolerance. it has Slater's wheelsets with their shouldered axles so the wheel spacings should be right. The fact remains this wagon is prone to derail. There is one other possible cause that occurs to me - when I fit Dingham couplings I set them so that the hooks don't project beyond the buffers - but this wagon has very light buffer springs (as Slater's wagon kits invariably do) and when it is being propelled in a rake they might well compress enough to cause the hooks to project. As the wagon negotiates a curve (on a Peco point say) the projecting hook might foul that of the adjacent wagon resulting in a derailment. I will try converting the buffers to a rigid setting by putting some paint around the fixing nuts and the back of the buffer housings (guides?), locking these together. I have never worried about sprung buffers overmuch - as long as they look like they might spring that's good enough - and if converting them to rigid cures the problem so be it. On other possibility is that the compensator (an etched-brass one included in the kit) is causing the problem. This could be tested very simply by inserting some packing pieces between the brass cradle and the underside of the wagon floor so that compensator can no longer rock. I will try rigid buffers at the next show (St Albans in January) and if that fails to cure the problem the compensator can be locked. If the wagon is still naughty after that.... well it may suffer the fate of all the prototype wooden coal wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Chaz before commiting an irreversible mod on your wagon, why not try wrapping the buffer shanks with a few turns of solder - it'll effectively do the same thing, albeit rather more obviously, but is easy to remove. When you have convinced yourself it is, or more importantly is not, the buffers, a more permanent mod can be arranged. best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Chaz before commiting an irreversible mod on your wagon, why not try wrapping the buffer shanks with a few turns of solder - it'll effectively do the same thing, albeit rather more obviously, but is easy to remove. When you have convinced yourself it is, or more importantly is not, the buffers, a more permanent mod can be arranged. best Simon I could do that Simon but that particular "irreversible mod" is hardly going to ruin the model, is it? I have never been able to understand the enthusiasm for sprung buffers - I have a couple of wagons in my collection which have solid white-metal buffers (the buffers are of an unusual type not easily replaced and I just couldn't be bothered to drill them out and fit steel rams) and carefully painted they look fine. Granted, if you watch them closely in action it is possible to spot their rigidity. It has been argued (by Heather in this topic) that the buffer rams on many wagons moved very little. Chaz Edited November 3, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 True, it almost certainly makes no difference at all - perhaps if you have a majority of sprung ones - I don't know how well it works if the majority are not sprung I still think it's "knowing they work" The less well designed versions are a complete PITA to make work, but somehow I persevere... Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) True, it almost certainly makes no difference at all - perhaps if you have a majority of sprung ones - I don't know how well it works if the majority are not sprung I still think it's "knowing they work" The less well designed versions are a complete PITA to make work, but somehow I persevere... Best Simon "I don't know how well it works if the majority are not sprung" There is one problem that rigid buffers can cause with Dingham couplings, Simon. if two vehicles so fitted are pushed together on a curve it sometimes happens that there is not enough slack to allow the hoop of one to fall over the hook of the other. Were the buffers to be sprung their compression might well furnish enough "give" to allow coupling to be effected. However it's not unknown for even Kaydees to fail to couple on a curve so I have always accepted this as one of the limitations of the couplings. I can live with it. Chaz Edited November 3, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Warning - this is a rambling, but I hope not incoherent posting. I have been looking at Great Northern's topic on his Peterboro' North layout for some time now. This morning Phil (aka mallard60022) said in a posting... "One thing about P North and a few other layouts is the opportunity to relive moments by 'setting up' trains and scenes to photograph. I really enjoy this aspect of our hobby. There are areas of PN (e.g. Fiddle Yard)( that are not photogenic in the same way), however they contain tons of good stuff to look at. Funnily enough I've always appreciated exhibition layouts for their ability (or not) to create a moment in time in my mind's eye. I don't actually worry too much about loads of trains moving about, that is usually but not always a bonus. One thing RMWeb has enabled is the opportunity to see an 'exhibition' every day if one so chooses." It's one of the aspects of modelling that I enjoy too. Of course the scope for variety on Dock Green (16 feet of 7mm model) is severely limited compared to Peterboro' North. There is no passenger traffic, no Pacifics, no long trains, only one signal etc etc but with this necessarily limited scope I have tried to recreate a scene and the movements in it which do reflect the activity in a grubby urban yard. One aspect that I can't compete with (as Peterboro' North depicts a real place and a real timetable) is a variety of accurately modelled trains. All I can hope for (and I think I have been successful) is to create a convincing atmosphere, with some shunting moves to provide sound and movement. Of course neither of the latter are there in a photo! (Video to the rescue?) Phil's comment came after a discussion of the merits or otherwise of Photoshopping digital photos to improve images. When I planned Dock Green I decided that the layout should be hemmed in on three sides by retaining walls. I did also consider topping these walls with buildings. These would have given me an opportunity for some nice modelling and an increase in the atmosphere. Imagine the look of the area around the warehouse extended along the whole 16 feet of the layout. This would have forced us to operate the layout from the front which I chose not to do. Show visitors may have seen us resort to this when shunting the warehouse siding, which is invisible from the back of the layout. The retaining walls are a three-dimensional backscene which nicely frame many of my photos, and mean that often there is no need to tidy up images with Photoshop. Not that I disapprove of this - it's just that it involves time and effort. I do Photoshop some of my images but it is usually a simple task - the top edge of a retaining wall is an easy line to work to when blotting out a venue wall or the upper parts of one of the team! Pictures taken from the back of the layout present a far greater challenge - fences, small buildings and the abrupt end of bridge approaches are next to impossible to Photoshop to a realistic image. I invariably leave these as they come from the camera. The necessarily higher viewpoint, coupled with the low edge (the fence) means that any Photoshopped effect is likely to be very unconvincing, better to leave well alone. Chaz Edited November 6, 2015 by chaz 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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