Michael Delamar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 this high level chassis is one I started around 5 years ago as one of my first attempts at an etched chassis. it went together well,but I struggled at the wheel and pick up stage. it was at the same time a friend at the Liverpool model railway society also built one successfully, but it became apparent that his loco was just too light,even with lead crammed into every space available such as between the frames and in the cab roof, this did improve his but with mine I am also toying with the idea of dcc and sound. mine will be a Liverpool dock pug which had a warning bell fitted and that is something I would like to recreate. I also like my loco's to be heavy, not only for load hauling but it helps with electical pickup, something that is essential with an 0-4-0. the high level conversion does away with the cast weight in the boiler and fills the firebox and saddletank with motor and gearbox, the motor and gearbox give smooth running but the weight is still an issue. my chassis had been bouncing around the bottom of a junk box getting a bit of rough treatment but ive taken it out now and had a look at using it in another configuaration. I had toyed with the idea of using a black beete to power the pug on the rear axle but the short wheelbase prevented this because the motors are still too long, but I still liked the black beetle layout as it leaves everything above the footplate free for weight and a speaker. the plastic frame does need some careful surgery underneath it as the motor cant fit completley in the frames. the motor is just one i found in a spares box, the smallest i have available and the worm gear will be replaced with a finer one, but it does fit with no loss of detail even taking into account the drive gear diameter. the old Dapol pug does have a skirt under the boiler like the old Hornby black 5 and you can carefully get this away using a dremel and scalpel without disturbing the leafspring and other detail in front of it. for this I will try Ultrascale wheels. it is a long term project but its also an experiment to see if what I need will fit and it seems it will so far. I dont like motors or gearing to be visible in my loco, so the unaltered Dapol version is a no no for me, i like the open cab, the only bit that daylight would be visible is side on between the wheels but the pug does have a plate that covers that. what I would need to work out is a good gear ratio and long down the line is getting a sound file done with the bell noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 108:1 would be a challenging ratio for a shunter like this one; they weren't built for speed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 the motor does run slow and its got to be able to shunt at least 15-20 wagons around curves. it should run slower than a standard Dapol/Hornby one, if not ill rename it smokey joe. the dcc chip should help it aswel. i tried some cogs and worms and sods law i havent got any matching left or right cogs and worm gears threads. it just needed a bit more trimming out of the underneath and a bit of trimming of the cast weight and there is still space in the tank to fill with lead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Have you tried the Dapol plastic kit version, and seeing whether there's any extra space that might be yielded by the boiler / saddle tank section of that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I would imagine it to be the same, I haven't got the kit version but one thing I think it does have is the style of smokebox door the bank hall locos had, the one on the Dapol Hornby rtr one doesn't look like any of the shots I've got of liverpool locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 What is the actual gear ratio that you're using? It doesn't look like the 108:1 that High Level supply as standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 To improve the pick-ups try compensating the non powered axle. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 To improve the pick-ups try compensating the non powered axle. That's how the High Level kit is intended to be built, note the frame cutouts for fitting guides for the front axle. Unfortunately, Michael has had to leave out the frame spacer that holds the rocking pin in order to get the motor between the frames. I suppose a pin could be fitted to the front spacer, but it would probably need the front of the motor to be raised a few mm. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I've no idea what the gear ratio will be as I haven't got a matching cog and worm yet, I've got half a dozen different ones in a spare box from comet and branchlines I think, I think that the motor is the same as in the black beetles which are also solidn, the narrow end helps to clear the front axle, I could have also mounted the motor on the front axle I had to cut out the middle frame spacer but will replace it with one the motor can be screwed to with a u shape so the motor can be removed and also another spacer under the motot that the pickup wire can be soldered to. The supplied gearbox is in 2 parts and goes up the firebox and into the saddle tank, it takes up a bit of space. When I did have it running I did have to loctite and then solder the final brass cog to the axle, in the end I cut it out and have pinched the motor for something else, the 108 to 1 is very pedestrian, having a bit of speed will be useful when running round in the fiddle yards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 I should also point out that this chassis is EM gauge so a 00 version would not be possible with this motor. is there still a 3 month wait for ultrascales? I found an unbuilt airfix kit in the club, but the one bit i wanted, the smokebox front was missing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ....is there still a 3 month wait for ultrascales?.... Not any more. It has recently lengthened to 4 months. That's the problem really: as soon as word gets out that the waiting time is reduced, everyone piles in, and we're back to square one ....the one bit i wanted, the smokebox front was missing Murphy's Law. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 I better get ordering then, see you all in 4 months unless someone has an EM nickel set they want to sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think i may have solved the haulage problem. it will fit if I mount the motor at a slight downward angle and trim away the corner of the gearbox that is then sticking up, i also need to cut out the thick plastic bottom of the boiler and then make a new one out of brass maybe, so will need to replace the moulded injectors but that is no problem I think they are in the airfix kit. it wont be visible in the cab in fact the gearbox is quite far forward so the fake firebox can be used for weight, there is also space in the smokebox end for more weight or a decoder. motor is second hand but runs sweet and is quiet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Highly intriguing, given that I couldn't get a 1616 into the space allowed by the plastic kit. Even after carving out as much plastic as I dared, the biggest I could cram in was the Faulhaber 0816. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 This is an interesting one. I was going to suggest adding as much weight as possible, e.g. whitemetal footplate crew, chimney, dome, dumb buffers, brass safety valves, whistle, etc. but the size of that mechanism ought to be enough to weight the pug down! As Ozzyo said, I'd try to compensate the chassis even if it's difficult, as you'll need to do everything you can to optimise pick-up with such a short wheelbase. Please keep us updated on developments! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Highly intriguing, given that I couldn't get a 1616 into the space allowed by the plastic kit. Even after carving out as much plastic as I dared, the biggest I could cram in was the Faulhaber 0816. the overall outer dimensions of the saddletank on the airfix kit pug is smaller than the Dapol one. ive cut down the gearbox, while doing this i masked it up. then hacked at the Dapol body, removing all from underneath the boiler.the porterscap 1219 now fits in snug, I may just paint the motor black to represent the bottom of the boiler. sorry about the mobile phone pics but a few quick ones to show it does fit. I could now spring the front axle as i have the space. still debating on wheels, im not sure if Markits do a small enough wheel even if it was spoked i could put a disc over it, as i like the idea of having one side live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 useful prototype shot showing underside of boiler at Goole, © Copyright Ben Brooksbank and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 the wheels I believe should be 12mm, the nearest Markit I can see is MA472 12.5mm Barclay 10 spoke. so im leaning towards Ultrascale... https://www.ultrascale.com/eshop/products/view/CAT001/85 not sure just yet of correct axle diameter and crankpin sizes to go for. and because of problems ive had in the past with interfearence fit wheels Id be looking to have the ends of the axles knurled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 piece of scrap brass curved so as to cover over the motor and gearbox and represent the new underside of the boiler because the underside of the saddletank and the frame had to be filed out a bit wider for the motor to pass through but it isnt noticable. the side of the gearbox can be filled with lead as its a lot slimmer than the motor. i did think about making this piece to replicate the boiler actually from a strip of lead at first. im also going to glue the cab to the frame so its all stronger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 There's not much that you can't get a High Level mech into Mike! :-) Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 ive decided to try a set of scalelink 12mm wheels having brief experience with their 14mm wheels. same tyre width as gibsons and plastic centred but with romford compatble axle and nice shiny nickel tyres. I will make a thin plasticard cover for them and drill the 2 holes in, or maybe plastic one side and brass the other to have one side live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hello Michael, good to meet up with you at the weekend. Could you use the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby wheels that are on the R.T.R. model? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 they are long gone,think i sold the chassis, plus the wheels are bit wide with deep flanges Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2012 Ian J used Gibsons on his High level Pug chassis. Will be interested to see how the Scalelink ones turn out as a similar project is at he back of my mind ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 this did originally have pinned gibson's on when building chassis as intended but I had a few problems with them, gearbox got damaged trying to get wheels back off so I was left with just the chassis. Any gibsons I use in the future I want straight knurled axle ends for them, but I still feel the romford locking style more reliable, the scalelink seem to be best of both worlds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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