Pug experiment

[Horsetan]

cheers Horsetan, best place to get some do you know?....

 

>>Here is a stockist

[Michael Delamar]

thanks ill get some of that.

 

Ive been giving it a bit of a facelift.

 

I never liked the smokebox door with its moulded dart, the door seems to be modelled on a different style than all the Liverpool ones ive seen pictures of, also the moulded tap pieces either side of the door (not sure what they are meant to represent) didnt look very good being oversized and in the wrong position.

 

so ive cut it off with a round scalpel, the whitemetal door is from my Agenoria avonside and the overall shape and diameter seems to be about right,  so I will make a copy of it in resin, but will alter the bottom door strap to be shorter and the hinges to be a bit finer.

 

it will get a Gibson door dart and 247 developments 27A Bank Hall shedplate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ian J.]

Modifying the 'face' of the Pug was something I never got round to, but then I could never find a suitable replacement part for those tap things so have just let them be. Does no-one produce an accurate replacement door for the L&Y Pug?

[Michael Delamar]

im not sure but its worth looking into. at Alexandra palace the 3mm stand had a selection of nice whitemetal smokebox doors around the right size but didnt get one because I didnt have the loco with me to check.

 

those tap things, I may just make from bits of brass probably whistles, unless someone knows what they are and if there is any available replacements.

[PenrithBeacon]

...

 

those tap things ...

Aren't they lubricators for the cylinders?

 

Regards

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

the tap things are called Furness (or maybe furnace) lubricators. in that it was a hydrostatic type of lubricator. Steam and oil. Just think about how it will work. Oil on top of water.

 

OzzyO.

[Michael Delamar]

thanks,its interesting to know what the pieces are,although  I wouldnt expect those to be available as brass spares so ill just make them as I say from some brass or something like a whistle.

 

looking at those shots I wasnt happy with the step down in the turned brass chimney, so I thought id smooth them out, to do this I threadded a 1 1/4" long 10ba bolt through the chimney with a washer and bolt at the top of the chimney to keep it tight, then put it in a drill and smoothed the step down with a cardboard nail file, the bottom step is there on the real thing so didnt smooth that down all the way.

 

I also drilled the hole for a mid sized handrail knob which will hold the swivel smoke deflector, not putting that on just yet as itll be delicate. i soldered that in using London road models solder paste, soldered with my RSU.

there was also a moulding around the area of the top lamp bracket, not sure what it was supposed to be but its cut off now.

 

Ive also reduced the cylinder overhand where I extended them out to clear the coupling rods.

 

I wasnt confident in cutting right through the plastic cylinders as I thought it may affect the slidebars inside.

but I had a spare set so it was worth a try on one of those first, I cut with a carborandrum disc through just outside of the centre line of the cylinder, doing this reveals a cavity in the side of the cylinder but luckily the slidebars wernt affected or loosened, I put a thin piece of plasticard in and then smoothed the top and bottom edges of the cylinder to get the curve back. also adding evergreen putty filler to smooth it out.

 

it was something I wasnt looking forward to doing but i couldnt leave the cylinders sticking out the way they where, they now stick out the same as before they where widened, with the result the slidebars are further out which isnt noticable.

once smoothed out a bit more and painted should look fine , will also add things like cylinder taps.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ian Fisher]

Good attention to detail...

 

Is Jimmy going to be on it ? You could reenact his trip from Bank Hall to Fleetwood!

 

Best use a HO figure tho

 

Ian

[PenrithBeacon]

Hello all,

 

the tap things are called Furness (or maybe furnace) lubricators. in that it was a hydrostatic type of lubricator. Steam and oil. Just think about how it will work. Oil on top of water.

 

OzzyO.

Not sure about this. My understanding, which might well be in error, was that the Furness lubricator was a device which held a discrete charge of oil, the flow of which was regulated integrally and was not a hydrostatic type of equipment where the flow of lubricant was controlled from the cab. The lubricators shown in Michael's photo appear to show a form of lubricator which is very different from my understanding of the form of the Furness lubricator, but my view may well be wrong. I'll try to look up some photos.

 

Regards

 

Edit: I've added a photo which I took of SECR 65 on the Bluebell in 2007 but it's not in the right place! The Furness lubricator is the brass thingy on the side of the smokebox

 

 

Edit 2: This is a cropped version of photo of mine of Aerolite in the NRM 2012. It too shows what I believe to be a Furness lubricator. The oil is in the 'ball' and the union held a screw fitting which was used to regulate the flow of oil

[Michael Delamar]

closer view..

 

[Horsetan]

Looks similar to the SECR Wainwright / Ashford door, but may not be same diameter.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

by my use of the word of hydrostatic lubricator, I should have said a type of condenser type, in that a small amount of steam is admitted in to the the "Furness" lubricator, and then when it cools it turns to water and then displaces the oil.  

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. if anyone has any drawings of how these work, please post them up. I think that they work like a syphon lock. That you would use when brewing wine etc.  

[Michael Delamar]

even though its not really ready for paint, I painted the cylinders so I could see what needed to be smoothed off etc, couple of coats and they look good, also couldnt resist painting the body, the brass parts will be sprayed primer and painted but I did the body brushed in matt humbrol, reason being Id already handpainted the inside and outside of the cab and didnt fancy priming over it or masking it and the glazed cab windows, the thin brush coats give it that nice sooty weathered look too. havent done the chassis as that needs finishing off with brakegear etc, but have painted the sides of the portescap motor.

I was also was sick of looking at that Hornby weathering and bright yellow late crest and then with the  green filler it looked horrible.

 

[Michael Delamar]

and thought id put the crests on, Ive noticed theyve modelled the rivet area on the side of the tanks different to all the prototype shots ive looked at, the panel the crest is on should be higher than the 2 either side, not lower, it doesnt bother me just thought id mention it.

 

I thought I had some numbers but cant find them, but again its not really ready for them but it can be a job to get out the way. another thing ive noticed with the numbers, in the 50s they seem to have large cab numbers, the ones that lasted later into the 60s seemed to get smaller sized numbers.

 

quick bit of primer on the chimney too.

 

[Horsetan]

It just occurred to me that sticking the RG4 into the Pug is a bit like shoehorning a V8 into a Mini Metro......

[Ian J.]

I have a Wills/SEF H class with a Portescap RG4 and gearbox, it's a wonderful little motor/gearbox combination and very quiet. Certainly quieter than the Mashima in my Pug!

[Michael Delamar]

I used to have a vauxhall corsa with a v6 in it

[46444]

It just occurred to me that sticking the RG4 into the Pug is a bit like shoehorning a V8 into a Mini Metro......

 

MG Metro 6R4 1980's rally car springs to mind-though think that was a V6.

 

Lovely work on your Pug Michael by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Michael Delamar]

its gotta haul, video clip on the last page proves that they could pull, at least 10 wagons in that clip and ex drivers Ive known said they would pull a lot more, people get into the idea that because they are not pushed to their limit on preserved railways or that a rtr model of the same size cant pull that the real thing couldnt.

its also nicer to have power in reserve rather than it stalling or slipping, the weight makes the key too.

 

and its reassuring to know that Itll run round without the gears stripping(touch wood) or the wheels coming out of quarter.

[PenrithBeacon]

Re Furness lubricators ... http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8dPXhX288TYC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=furness+lubricator&source=bl&ots=nB8YcOvjUr&sig=6pszT4VbW5QkpBQ8aaOBKolz_o0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pRt5UaCAJoqx0AX0_YDoCA&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=furness%20lubricator&f=false

 

Regards

[Michael Delamar]

Chimney painted and a bit of thinned down black over the crests to weather them.

 

 

 

here are 2 shots of the same loco 51206, in 1955 and 58 sporting different sized cab numbers, Interesting in the later shot its gained the cab side sheet, the only shot ive seen of one of them on a Liverpool loco, ive got other shots of this loco at different times and it doesnt have it.

my period for this loco will be pre-1956, before the Overhead railway closed.

 

http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/image.htm?img=HU00084&jpg=HU00084.jpg&srch=&page=

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=22293

 

 

 

[Michael Delamar]

doing a bit on the chassis, made a square piece of brass to cover the hole in the side of the chassis, I think its a sliding piece on the real thing to get at the valve gear, dont know why I didnt do it first time round but its done now, covers up the gearbox and lead on the model.

 

also the brakes, Ive no idea what happened to them, weather they where damaged and thrown away or ive just lost them, its been so long, think it was 2005 I first got it.

so ive cut off the Hornby/Dapol ones, filed them down a bit, drilled through, soldered wire to the chassis, threaded them on and they will be glued , need to get some superglue later so I can secure them and for things like the resin leaf springs too.

didnt take long, probably not the best solution would have preffered brass but at least they wont short out if too close.

[Ian J.]

Does anyone reading this think it would be a worthwhile idea me going back to my Pug thread from the last RMweb incarnation and bringing into being on this version of RMweb? I am a bit worried about what might happen to the images as they are currently on a flickr share I think, and I'd rather they were hosted by RMweb itself.

 

Here's the original thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=43547

[Michael Delamar]

if you didnt finish it Ian yes, ive been looking back in that thread over the last few days so I could remember where all the underneath bits go, its been very useful.

 

did a bit more, made the smoke deflector, was a spare buffer still on the etch from my Judith edge Hunslet, I had a few different sizes and this was the largest and best sized, I cut it with the pip still on it, drilled through that rather than just solder the wire to it so its got a bit of strength in it.

and then bent the buffer down around the edges, im not quite sure how the bottom of the rod is secured, ie does it go through the middle top handrail knob or beside it on a bracket? 

 

also made the motion bracket, Id lost the high level etch one but had the thick plastic Hornby/Dapol ones, while not very nice looking because they are very thick, they do have slots and pips on the inside so secures the slidebars nice.

I was ready to copy these in brass, then I thought id try filing the plastic ones down wafer thin and it seems to have worked, so they are glued on.

 

also painted the chassis, and ive been the clubrooms tonight and left the Agenoria smokebox door setting in rubber so it can be cast in resin, aswel as some more leaf springs and gubbins for under the saddle tanks, will get them back on Tuesday night.

 

 

 

[Michael Delamar]

as is always the way, the etched brakegear has just turned up oh well.