Wright writes.....

[Focalplane]

    Not meant or being being negative at all.  I wasn't referring to Tony ,Larry or anyone else of similar standing .

 

    Perhaps I should have called them "Keyboard Warriors" especially the ones who never show any kind of model they have actually built. But are always very good at being negative about others efforts whether good or bad.

 

     They are the kind of comments which drive people away from forums in general and even modelling.

You need to go to trainorders.com model railroad section to really understand this!

[Focalplane]

There is a saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".

 

Wrong!

 

That old dog just doesn't know there are new tricks out there.  If he or she did. . . .

[Clive Mortimore]

If "X" is model of something, is a modeller someone who makes it, or buys it?

 

Can anyone be a real tennis player by just buying a racquet and six tennis balls? And would Serena Williams be considered a "Star" or a "Rivet Counter" in the hobby of tennis playing?

 

Andy

Can anyone be a real railway modeller by just buying from http://www.proto87.com/  ?

 

Railway modelling is a very diverse hobby (thankfully) and I will not say that someone is not a railway modeller if they get enjoyment from their hobby. I might not like what they model but I will not say they are not railway modellers. What and how they model might be the future of our hobby.

 

Clive

 

Who is not a scratchbuilder because I do not turn my own wheels or wind my own motors. Plus I build in plastic not metal.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[Phil Brighton]

Videos from Little Bytham

 

My C1 going round

 

Tony's part built J69 and C2

 

 

A few of Tony's trains

 

 

I have kept the sound on as I think people like that but tried to minimise my annoying voice.

Its not going to win any Oscars unless there is one for best peering closely

[grob1234]

With regard to the future of modelling, perhaps things aren't as bad as they may appear. I think the Internet allows us access to information that in the past may have only been accessible by belonging to a club or society. One of my very good friends who lives opposite me in Hong Kong and is of the same age bracket as me late 20s early 30s and we are both "well into model railways", currently in N but have plans for future layouts in oo as soon as space permits. Generally, we model for our own pleasure, and use the Internet as a resource, just like a club, which effectively negates our need to become a member of a club. We can trade ideas on the Internet, and as long as you take a critical eye to any advice that's given (by keyboard warriors who have never run a model train in their life!) then the web provides most of the answers you need. That said there is sometimes no replacement for seeing something in the flesh!

 

Maybe us boys and some girls will always be interested in trains and big stuff and therefore our hobby will continue to grow. I certainly have no intent on giving up, and cannot wait to crack on with more of my projects, including making more progress with my n gauge layout North Moreton.

Edited June 20, 2015 by grob1234

[newbryford]

 

 

Next month I'm giving a talk to the Chiltern Association (CMRA) in Watford on how I perceive the 'future of the hobby' to be. Any suggestions, please? 

 

DCC?

 

(Sorry Tony - couldn't resist..........   )

 

The younger modellers are out there - check out the likes of Jack374's workbench - he's more than willing to have a go at hacking stuff.

 

I must admit to kitbuilding far less locos these days. For my layout that I built in the 1990's, it had a selection of kit built "preserved" steam. K4, K1, A3, V2, A2, Duchess, MN, Black 5, 8F, BR 4MT tank and tender, Brit, DoG etc. All kit built. Now I can buy very good RTR models of all of those and modify as necessary to represent the current day loco. My last steam loco purchase was a Hornby K1 to renumber and detail as 62005 - a lovely little model. Building the equivalent kit is simply a no-brainer in time alone.

My next likely RTR steam purchase will likely be a Jubilee or Royal Scot (Jubilee is winning the vote as 45690 currently carrying lined black looks rather good). As my main steam focus is current day main line locos, they're all pretty well represented with quality RTR - except the King, but that'll be fixed soon. So that's less "modelling" for me and I've been at it for about 40 years.............

 

However, I've put the saved time from building the K1 to good use and modified/repainted a set of Mk1/Mk2's to tag behind it.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Focalplane]

Videos from Little BythamMy C1 going roundhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SH8syy9X28Tony'spart built J69 and C2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2eJ9rq-JhkAfew of Tony's trainshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCa1xr01UnwI have kept the sound on as I think people like that but tried to minimise my annoying voice.Its not going to win any Oscars unless there is one for best peering closely

Watched all three videos outdoors in southern France with a nice glass of Fitou, having dined on Cajun spiced lamb cutlets and parsley flavored potatoes, mushrooms and tomatoes. Magic! And the musical accompaniment seems quite appropriate, Chuck Berry. Life can be very very good! Thank you.

 

I should add that I didn't have the soundoif the video on, Chuck Berry was already "on stage". Also, Venus, Jupiter and the Moon were watching from above and they liked the videos too!

 

Edit to add the last paragraph.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Focalplane

[APOLLO]

Life can be a bitch also - Watched same vids in Wigan, June and it's cold, pi**ing down, beans on toast (no sausages) for tea, listening to the birds coughing up phlegm, drinking warm, flat Tetleys bitter !!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist, actually, the rain stopped at 4 o'clock and it's a nice warm balmy evening, just finished having a barbie drinking the odd lager and the wife's superb home made burgers.

 

Wish I could make models as good as the wife cooks !!

 

Brit15

[runs as required]

Here is an interesting thread - about to be violated by an idiot.

 

I'm not far off my 80th year. None of the generations behind me will remember the Big Four, nor even BR in its various liveries or Epoch III in Continental H0.

But they will happen across steam (real) railways through history - which will seem as remote as motte and bailey castles, battle re-enactments or even fanatasies like Game of Thrones.

 

I'd like to think there will be oddballs out there modelling atmospheric railways, early plate ways meeting canals - with working boats and horses, Blenkinsop racks; Rowland Emmet's 'Far Tottering and Oyster Creek', maybe even my own atavar - Brunton's Steam Horse, the cause of the World's first railway disaster  - blowing up and killing 13 people at a reckless 30 mph in August 1815 at a celebratory fair in Newbottle Sunderland.

dhig

Edited June 20, 2015 by runs as required

[S.A.C Martin]

There's an excellent model of the Gresley A4 Pacific available in OO from Hornby. But it never really did it for me. So I tried doing something different and using cheap body shells from a magazine coupled with a variety of chassis to get a model A4 in the form I wanted for my model railway. Additions include after market buffers, washout plug and access hatch etches, handrails, my own formulated paint, Fox Transfers lining out and many more besides.

 

Tony' seen my first and second attempts first hand, here's the fifth and probably last as I'm happy with the colour, the chassis choice, the parts used and the etches I commissioned to get it to be the right model exactly.

 

The question is, what do you think of the colour of Empire of India, Tony? Different pictures give different shades. Compared to the original Silver Fox - darker, but not much darker.

 

 

 

 

Those videos above are fantastic by the way. Really enjoy seeing trains running on Little Bytham.

[APOLLO]

Nice A4 there. Blue is one of those "funny" colours that is always difficult to match. It also has a tendency to fade & weather in the sun. Don't I know, I have a 1973 Zircon Blue Rover, close to BR rail blue but can I get a perfect match ? - No.

 

I suppose it was the same with the real LNER blue pacifics, Hop back in time and view a couple side by side and I bet they would not perfectly match, unless they were repainted on the same day, last week !!!!

 

Re the vids, and the fine food / barbeque references. Back in the late 50's early 60's when Tony's prototype trains were prolific, we all ate simply and indoors. Now we are mostly a bit more well off, we generally live better, but life has changed. I barely looked up at the Pendolino's flying past my house these days. Now if a stream of A1,2,3 &4 hauled expresses (or in my case Duchesses, Brits, Jubs, Pats & Scots) where thundering by - that would be a different, but it doesn't happen as an everyday occurrence, and that's why most of us build model railways, via the ready built or via the soldering iron !!!

 

Times change.

 

Brit15

[gr.king]

Can anyone be a real tennis player by just buying a racquet and six tennis balls? And would Serena Williams be considered a "Star" or a "Rivet Counter"  

Andy

Not many people play real tennis:

 

 

[St Enodoc]

Not many people play real tennis:

 

real tennis.jpg

Usually only two at a time  .

[Andy Reichert]

There's an excellent model of the Gresley A4 Pacific available in OO from Hornby. But it never really did it for me. So I tried doing something different and using cheap body shells from a magazine coupled with a variety of chassis to get a model A4 in the form I wanted for my model railway. Additions include after market buffers, washout plug and access hatch etches, handrails, my own formulated paint, Fox Transfers lining out and many more besides.

 

Tony' seen my first and second attempts first hand, here's the fifth and probably last as I'm happy with the colour, the chassis choice, the parts used and the etches I commissioned to get it to be the right model exactly.

 

The question is, what do you think of the colour of Empire of India, Tony? Different pictures give different shades. Compared to the original Silver Fox - darker, but not much darker.

 

11650915_10155730773140710_1006774335_n.jpg

 

11647219_10155730773305710_1629726811_n.jpg

 

11651311_10155730773515710_1446513170_n.jpg

 

Those videos above are fantastic by the way. Really enjoy seeing trains running on Little Bytham.

 

Blue m

 

Nice A4 there. Blue is one of those "funny" colours that is always difficult to match. It also has a tendency to fade & weather in the sun. Don't I know, I have a 1973 Zircon Blue Rover, close to BR rail blue but can I get a perfect match ? - No.

 

I suppose it was the same with the real LNER blue pacifics, Hop back in time and view a couple side by side and I bet they would not perfectly match, unless they were repainted on the same day, last week !!!!

 

Re the vids, and the fine food / barbeque references. Back in the late 50's early 60's when Tony's prototype trains were prolific, we all ate simply and indoors. Now we are mostly a bit more well off, we generally live better, but life has changed. I barely looked up at the Pendolino's flying past my house these days. Now if a stream of A1,2,3 &4 hauled expresses (or in my case Duchesses, Brits, Jubs, Pats & Scots) where thundering by - that would be a different, but it doesn't happen as an everyday occurrence, and that's why most of us build model railways, via the ready built or via the soldering iron !!!

 

Times change.

 

Brit15

 

 

I know how that goes. Every time I wash my Electric Blue outfit it just gets lighter and lighter.

 

Andy

 

PS Who knows the railway connection with this?

[edcayton]

Blue m

 

 

 

I know how that goes. Every time I wash my Electric Blue outfit it just gets lighter and lighter.

 

Andy

 

PS Who knows the railway connection with this?

 

Was that supposed to be the original colour for the AC electrics?

 

Ed

[raymw]

from wiki -

 

In a move that caused a public outcry in Britain, it was then sold to the American railway pioneer Henry Edwards Huntington for $728,800 (£182,200), according to Duveen's bill,^[5] a then-record price for any painting. (According to a mention in The New York Times, dated 11 November 1921, the purchase price was $640,000, which would be over $8.5 million in 2014.^[6]) Before its departure to California in 1922, The Blue Boy was briefly put on display at the National Gallery where it was seen by 90,000 people; the Gallery's director Charles Holmes was moved to scrawl farewell words on the back of the painting: "Au Revoir, C.H.".^[7]

[Andy Reichert]

from wiki -

 

That's the first half.

 

The clue is up and left.

 

Andy

[Andy Reichert]

Can anyone be a real railway modeller by just buying from http://www.proto87.com/  ?

 

Railway modelling is a very diverse hobby (thankfully) and I will not say that someone is not a railway modeller if they get enjoyment from their hobby. I might not like what they model but I will not say they are not railway modellers. What and how they model might be the future of our hobby.

 

Clive

 

Who is not a scratchbuilder because I do not turn my own wheels or wind my own motors. Plus I build in plastic not metal.

 

In one sentence, you could say the "Stores" is an experiment to save modellers of all abilities from needing to do precision filing of many critical small metal repeated parts . . .  over and over and over and over. . .

 

In looking at Tony's large fine layout and large multiple loco collection, it apparently only exists because dozens of people helping each other provided many of the skills and especially the skilled repetition that I'm trying to make available, in an alternative form, to the average modeller, who would otherwise have to to all that stuff entirely on his own. And probably therefore never get there.

 

I do have a one page fuller explanation for those who care to read it.  http://www.proto87.com/about-proto87-stores.html

[APOLLO]

LNER "Garter" Blue ?

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

Picking up on what's been a very active day or two on this thread, perhaps a few of my personal comments might be of some little interest. 

 

Firstly, many thanks to Phil for posting the videos. Though, because of the limitations of the technology (I assume), some of the trains appear to be 'jerky', this is definitely not the case in reality. At least the moving pictures showed that there were no derailments. The intention is to make a further DVD of Little Bytham later this year as more scenic work is completed. 

 

As for the future of the hobby, I'd give it no more than ten years in its current state. Yes, things have always changed, but, as someone has alluded to, it's very much the baby-boomer generation (wartime/immediate post-War) who form the majority right now, and that generation is steadily disappearing. To be replaced by the next generation of modellers? Yes, but the numbers of those are fewer. And the third/fourth generation is even smaller. One can argue that the pattern has always been -  start off with a trainset as a kid, reach puberty, give up trainsets because of finding  wine/women/song, etc, settle down/marriage/mortgage/kids/divorce, kids grow up and leave, mortgage gets paid off, retirement looms, some extra space becomes available because the 'parasites' have gone, have disposable income, return to being interested in railway modelling, be astonished at how much better things are than your original trainset and spend money. Thus, the hobby continues, but that only works because there was an initial starting point. What is there to return to if you never started in the first place? 

 

As for the 'cottage industry' side of the hobby, many of these essential people are fast-reaching (or already have reached) retirement age. Where are the replacements? Yes, there are younger folk developing the new technologies but is there the same number? 

 

Though there are several clubs who have an active 'younger' section, many are really struggling. I know of at least one which has recently disappeared, and at least a couple of others who give themselves 'two years' - no more. 

 

There is, I admit, a danger of becoming too focused on locos and rolling stock - railway modelling is much more, I agree. That said, because the quality of current mainstream RTR is so good, it does impact on the kit-market (sorry, I know we've been here before). So much so that many will disappear (or already have) and one gets a 'boring' uniformity on exhibition/home layouts. Of course, the current situation makes the hobby more democratic, but something someone has made themselves (whatever it is in the hobby) will always appeal to me much more than something just out of a box. My personal view, which I reiterate, again and again.............. 

 

As for the notion of 'better modellers' (whatever that might mean), some folk will always be better and some folk will always be worse at doing things. Someone has made the connection with sport - a good one. I call myself a cricketer (or used to - I now umpire), and for years thoroughly enjoyed playing the game, perhaps (at least) as much as the professionals. But, here is the difference; nobody ever paid to watch me play, nor (other than at grass-roots level) asked my advice on it. Perhaps that's where there might be a 'difference'; I don't know. Everyone has the right to enjoy their hobby in whatever way they wish, but it's only the real 'experts' (whatever the hobby is) who'll be invited by publishers to write books, give talks/demonstrations/presentations/lectures, make pay-for DVDs, etc, etc, etc. I apologise for the last sentence appearing to be pompous. All the above said, isn't it a delight when articles are published in the model press written by folk who've had a go themselves? Those who might never have considered writing anything before, or having their work photographed. If I've made even the tiniest contribution to this hobby in my 'career', I'd like to be remembered as someone who encouraged such modellers. 

 

'My' layout has been mentioned on many occasions, and I'd like to reiterate that's it's really down to a band of highly-skilled modellers pooling resources to 'achieve' success. I'm fortunate to have access to such skills, and to be able to 'trade' mine in return. Today, four old friends (in both definitions of the word) visited and we had a fine time talking trains, running trains and munching at a barbeque (the only thing I can cook!). One of the group said he was 'depressed' after looking at Little Bytham, in comparison with his own layout. The baseboards, the track, the running and so on and so on. His layout is Batley, and it appeared in the RM last year or so. He brought the magazine. But, his was far superior to mine in many ways because he'd done everything himself. Though friends had helped him a tiny bit, he hadn't had the luxury I had of a top team of modellers all helping me - to a far greater degree. There was far greater merit, in my view, in his self-reliant approach and he could say with far greater pride 'I made that'. Deservedly so! He was also reporting entirely on what he'd done, not what he'd paid someone else to do (though I haven't actually paid a great deal because of 'horse-trading'). That surely is what railway modelling is really about. Or at least, it is to me.

 

A younger modeller also stayed over the weekend (he's approaching 40 or so). He's decided to model part of the GC. Why? Because (until recently) there's no RTR support for it. He's thus 'forced' to make things, and he enjoys what he does much the more because of this. If there were more guys like him, the hobby would have a great future I'm sure.

 

Colour of Garter blue A4s? I don't really know. It's so dependent on the lighting conditions (Simon, I don't think you've got your camera white-balance set correctly. Bring them along next time, please, and I'll take some pictures).  

[runs as required]

Picking up on what's been a very active day or two on this thread, perhaps a few of my personal comments might be of some little interest. .....

As for the future of the hobby, I'd give it no more than ten years in its current state. Yes, things have always changed, but, as someone has alluded to, it's very much the baby-boomer generation (wartime/immediate post-War) who form the majority right now, and that generation is steadily disappearing. To be replaced by the next generation of modellers? Yes.....

I can't quite remember whether you intended this thread to be entirely concerned with British railway modelling or with the wider world.

 

Since RTR has only come about through Globalisation, a wider view might be worth a quick glimpse.

 

Last week I read an obituary to India's greatest indigenous architect: Charles Correa, in which it was explained that his fascination with places and addressing complexity had come about by using 'toy' trains as a child - particularly home made track that could be laid and relaid across rooms and the garden.

He went on to tackle (I think particularly successfully) India's most challenging problem - low cost housing mass housing, that may still retain a capability for individual adaptation.

 

What about the 1.2 billion (and growing) Chinese?

A fair few of them will be modelling in the coming century*. Oddly enough I bet some Chinese may even be modelling the GCR and its London extension island stations in 50 years time.

No doubt along with a unimaginable range of other subjects, many yet to appear.

I don't think it should be forgotten that, right at the dawn of railways, experimental working models were first crafted by clockmakers (such as Isaac Jackson at Wylam) before being hammered into being by blacksmiths.

dhig

 

[edit: * the Chinese have a saying "the Large in the Small and the Small in the Large" which succinctly expresses their love of models ]

Edited June 21, 2015 by runs as required

[Tony Wright]

I can't quite remember whether you intended this thread to be entirely concerned with British railway modelling or with the wider world.

 

Since RTR has only come about through Globalisation, a wider view might be worth a quick glimpse.

 

Last week I read an obituary to India's greatest indigenous architect: Charles Correa, in which it was explained that his fascination with places and addressing complexity had come about by using 'toy' trains as a child - particularly home made track that could be laid and relaid across rooms and the garden.

He went on to tackle (I think particularly successfully) India's most challenging problem - low cost housing mass housing, that may still retain a capability for individual adaptation.

 

What about the 1.2 billion (and growing) Chinese?

A fair few of them will be modelling in the coming century. Oddly enough I bet some Chinese may even be modelling the GCR and its London extension island stations in 50 years time.

No doubt along with a unimaginable range of other subjects, many yet to appear. I don't think it should be forgotten that, right at the dawn of railways, experimental working models were first crafted by clockmakers (such as Isaac Jackson at Wylam) before being hammered into being by blacksmiths.

dhig

Most interesting comments; many thanks. 

 

It's not up to me, anyway, to decide where this thread goes, and my observations were directed at the British modelling scene. Since I know little of the global hobby, I don't feel qualified to comment. 

 

I don't think RTR has come about because of Globalisation. Higher-quality RTR might well have done, and that's why manufacturing was moved to the Far East. That, and the much lower production costs (though those are now rising, of course). 

 

Having said I know little of the global hobby, I do know, in conversation with manufacturers, that the home railway modelling hobby in China is minute (taking into account the overall population). There are some models of Chinese prototypes, but it's not a mainstream hobby in the way it is in the UK. Does anyone know what the most popular hobbies in China are? Many Chinese assemblers must be puzzled as to what they're actually making, railway modelling-wise, especially as the same fine skills are necessary for the manufacture of the most recent phones/tablets/computers, which sell in their millions, not just thousands. Indeed, there is some concern that, because making railway models is so relatively small to the Chinese economy, the most nimble-fingered assemblers (mainly young females) are most likely to be making electronic gadgets (which do sell to the indigenous market), leaving the less-lucrative jobs (making trains) to older and/or less able workers, with the risk of a potential decline in quality. 

 

Regarding rising prices (tangential, I admit), why should the 'decadent West' (us) have the luxury of superb RTR/RTP models on the backs of what was a sweat-shop system in some cases? 

[Focalplane]

I own a Japanese made Balboa SP Daylight, made in the 1970s. I also have a Chine made Broadway Limited SP Daylight, made in the late 2000s. The former is brass, the latter is plastic but has more detail and also has DCC Sound. Both run extremely well. Asian brass started in Japan, moved to South Korea and now the centre of gravity is almost certainly China. With rising costs I am not sure where the industry can move to. Africa? Not a possibility from my twenty years of experience working all over that continent. China is probably the country where model making will continue but costs will inevitably rise. Does this mean there is the possibility of home grown kits making a resurgence? I would like to think so, particularly with 3D printing having a promising future.

 

The latest 3d cad of Dave Jone's Hatton Kings looks quite remarkable, full marks to him and his suppliers when they release the real thing. They will pull it off, of course, but whether all the details translate into an OO model remains to be seen.

 

I would agree that the model railway world as we know it is probably gong to disappear within 10 to 20 years. What replacements will be there will be interesting but many of us won't be around to find out, sadly.

 

So, enjoy what we have while we have it. Enjoy the videos but better still, have a go!

Edited June 22, 2015 by Focalplane

[St Enodoc]

Blue m

 

 

 

I know how that goes. Every time I wash my Electric Blue outfit it just gets lighter and lighter.

 

Andy

 

PS Who knows the railway connection with this?

It's "The Blue Boy" by Gainsborough, and of course Gainsborough is the location of one of the finest 0 gauge operational layouts ever built.

[Clive Mortimore]

Having mentioned that I make my own locomotives I thought I might take the opportunity to share my only homemade LNER loco. As far as I am aware there has never been a kit for it, and I cannot recall seeing another model of it or the other 4 in the class. Not the best of models as the camera shows.

The body is plastic card, the chassis has brass frames, I cannot remember what make the motor is, it has a Branchlines gearbox, with 1in 60 gears driving Romford wheels. Many might suggest I use a commercial 350 hp 0-6-0 shunter chassis, no the LNER used a different wheelbase to all the other railways (and English Electric) and the wheels were 4ft 1ins not 4ft 6ins as found on an 08. It hasn’t run for a few years but after a quick oil up it ran as well as many of my RTR 0-6-0 shunters.

 

Clive

Not a scratchbuilder as I do not turn my own wheels or wind my own motors. Plus I build from plastic not metal. And they are diesels.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Clive Mortimore