Wright writes.....

[Michael Edge]

Here's one I built about 14 years ago, cut out mostly from steel sheet - although the radiator and ladders look as if they are from a Jackshaft test etch. This was just as we were setting up Judith Edge kits and might be the last scratchbuilt diesel shunter I made. The customer this was intended for was in some part the instigator of our kits as I had worked through a long list of BR diesels until I came up against some which required etching. For a few, mainly North British, I just etched the louvred casing doors but eventually moved on to etching the whole loco. The Ruston 165DS was the first and the range is now approaching 50.

No photos of it painted, it went to Ian Rathbone for that.

The way I work now usually involves quite a lot of etched parts for a "scratchbuild" order. Is it still scratchbuilding if I design the parts myself?

[Clive Mortimore]

Here's one I built about 14 years ago, cut out mostly from steel sheet - although the radiator and ladders look as if they are from a Jackshaft test etch. This was just as we were setting up Judith Edge kits and might be the last scratchbuilt diesel shunter I made. The customer this was intended for was in some part the instigator of our kits as I had worked through a long list of BR diesels until I came up against some which required etching. For a few, mainly North British, I just etched the louvred casing doors but eventually moved on to etching the whole loco. The Ruston 165DS was the first and the range is now approaching 50.

01-20 15002RF.jpg

01-20 15002BL.jpg

No photos of it painted, it went to Ian Rathbone for that.

The way I work now usually involves quite a lot of etched parts for a "scratchbuild" order. Is it still scratchbuilding if I design the parts myself?

Hi Michael

 

I should have known you had built one..............and there's me thinking I have a shunter that Mr Edge has not made :no:

 

As you can see there is big difference between a homemade one and Michael's.

[gr.king]

Excellent! Some models of DES 1s. You wait for ages in the hope of seeing one, then they all turn up at once!

[Horsetan]

Blue m

 

 

 

 

I know how that goes. Every time I wash my Electric Blue outfit it just gets lighter and lighter.

 

Andy

 

PS Who knows the railway connection with this?

  

Was that supposed to be the original colour for the AC electrics?

 

Ed

"Together In Electric Dreams"?

[coachmann]

The owner of a horse bus company in London once said there won't be a petrol omnibus outside of a museum in ten years time. In other words, projecting present day world onto the future is risky. Talk of fewer young people doing railway modelling may have some bearing on the future but it is not foolproof. I say this because I know I am not the only old person who has only recently taken to building layouts, which makes me a pop-up statistic that didn't exist ten years ago!  Sure I did the toy-train bit when I was young, but then I dropped out and spent many decades painting models for a living. It was a job, nothing more, nothing less and I had no idea what was going on in the modelling and RTR world.

 

RTR models were already very good in 2005 but they were also inexpensive. Look at today's prices. RMweb was comparatively small in 2007 yet look at it today. Who would have projected that Kernow and Hattons would be commissioning RTR locomotives?  Bringing logic into future projections might look cute by the time ten years has passed. So long as people see and hear restored trains, I am sure they will continue to buy models of things that have turned them on. If purchasers of RTR fall, I suspect the initial reaction will be to reduce overheads and reduce prices, but there could be a cut off point and that my friends is when you will find yourselves back where we were when we were young and RTR was irrelevant (to modellers).

Edited June 22, 2015 by coachmann

[unclebobkt]

      Nice A4 there. Blue is one of those "funny" colours that is always difficult to match. It also has a tendency to fade & weather in the sun. Don't I know, I have a 1973 Zircon Blue Rover, close to BR rail blue but can I get a perfect match ? - No.

 

  I suppose it was the same with the real LNER blue pacifics, Hop back in time and view a couple side by side and I bet they would not perfectly match, unless they were repainted on the same day, last week !!!!

 

 

      Red is another colour susceptible to fading, ('Actinic.' is, I believe, the technical word to use?),  as I well-know from having to spend both time & money to find suitable garaging for my 1926 R-R. 'Light 20.', aka. 'Doctor's coupe.', (but that was a long time ago when I was working  and could afford such a luxury - petrol was cheaper, too!),.

        

[Horsetan]

.....Look at today's prices. ....

 

Still cheap compared to Continental European modelling.

[Nimbus]

As for the 'cottage industry' side of the hobby, many of these essential people are fast-reaching (or already have reached) retirement age. Where are the replacements? Yes, there are younger folk developing the new technologies but is there the same number? 

The first flowering of the finescale cottage industry seemed to me at the time to be exploiting the precision engineering skills which were being discarded en masse by the larger 'UK plc' economy. In other words, the products many of us take for granted were the result of their producer's redundancy or early retirement. That was a one-time-only event. When those people take their second retirement, that'll be it, for wheels or gears, anything that needs machining.

 

The Nim.

[DougN]

Well, Tony and all the other readers being one of the fewer modellers in his 40's. I have been one of the few who took up trains as a hobby at the age of 14. As well as being a member of BRMA for about 24 years! I have noticed as Tony pointed out there is a time in people's lives where modelling either becomes economic in the way of time, space, and cash. As has been mentioned comes in around the mid 50's.

As I have been exhibiting for about 20 of the years, as I am a "builder" of kits etc. I have watched the increase in interest with the increase in RTR here in Australia where previously it was either kit build or Korean Brass... So now the number of modellers are increasing where so many comments about the reduction of the hobby here in Australia we are seeing it increase. I would not say that there has been a change in social acceptance as people still deride the hobby openly.

 

I think and hope that the hobby maintains its numbers as people enter and leave it. This is due to interest and or age etc. Personally I hope the numbers continue and we still see new RTR and kits living side by side.

[Barry Ten]

I'm not as pessimistic as some, but it is getting harder to find the basic "bits" needed for kitbuilding, detailing projects etc.

 

At a recent large show, with some excellent layouts and good "RTR" trade support, I only found one supplier offering what I'd called the bread and butter of loco building - handrail knobs, bearings, axles, wheels etc. And I cleaned them out of two packs of handrail knobs, so good luck to anyone who came after me as it didn't look as if they had more in stock.

 

Mainly Trains used to be the one-stop-shop for all this stuff, and their ordering service was second-to-none. Without them I'd have found it very hard to do any modelling at all while living in Holland. But that range is now much reduced, so to get the necessary parts we now need to visit several different suppliers, not all of which are set up to do internet business very easily. Even when you can order something easily enough, it's often not obvious what you're getting - eg I just ordered some crossheads which turned out to be of the wrong kind, despite my best efforts, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having a spares box increasingly full of "wrong" things that were ordered by mistake, but which might come in handy one day...

 

I do agree that the hobby will be different in ten years time, although I'm not necessarily sure it'll be better or worse - just different. But if kitbuilding is to survive, it would be good if the supply of the parts was less fragmented than it is at present. Imagine a kind of "Amazon" of independent suppliers, where you could browse all the available kits, all the available components and materials, and then just click as required ... with the orders still going through the relevant suppliers. Perhaps there just isn't anything like the demand to justify such a thing?

[jrg1]

From Diesel Pioneers-The Colour of Rail 1

Taken a few miles and a few months apart.

[Andy Reichert]

OK, here's the extra info. Not too far off topic I hope.

 

Henry Huntington was the nephew of Collis P Huntington, the Chairman of SP, but lost the fight to succeed him when Collis died. So he moved to Southern California and built the twin Interurban and street car empires of the massive and far reaching "Pacific Electric" (see Avatar up and left - Red Cars) and the inner city "Los Angeles Rwy" (Yellow Cars).  Ironically, the SP fairly rapidly afterwards bought the former from him, but he retained the latter system, both of which lasted into the 60's.

 

His practice of buying large tracts of land relatively far out from the centre of LA, then putting in an interurban line to each, and finally selling the now far more valuable land back as individual home lots, and new small towns, made him very rich indeed. And this history is credited with creating the large decentralized urban sprawl that is Los Angeles today. His considerable wealth enabled him collect a lot of valuable art, which is now housed in his former home as the Huntington Museum and extensive gardens. He also married his uncle's widow, which possibly helped consolidate the fortune. 

 

The  covered portico of his home originally included a private branch track off the main line so that his own private interurban car could arrive actually at his front door and collect him for his daily trip to work! Who knows - with his top hat, he may have been an inspiration for the "Fat Controller".

 

Andy

[glo41f]

That first picture of the prototype Deltic is mystifying in that it seems to be hauling LNER teak coaches! I guess the colours on the film have rather gone awry over the years. It just illustrates though how interesting the railway scene once was and why folk were attracted to it. These days al you would se are a sucession of near identical train sets which do not raise the expectations of old. At the GCR show at the weekend there were a lot of youngsters present which means that some interest is there still. Whether they wi;; ever go one to make the model layouts of the future remains to be seen. It was interesting that the trade there were no offering kits and parts (save one trader) but they all had the same boxes piled high with "bargains". How glad I was that there was nothing in my scale as the goodies these days are so marvellous. It is nice to be able to enjoy a show with feeling the pressure to get a good deal on the latest model!

 

Martin Long

[Focalplane]

We probably shouldn't forget the impact of Thomas the Tank Engine on young railway enthusiasts, potentially bringing them on board as future modelers.

 

The children's TV programs narrated by Ringo Starr and George Carlin were very popular on PBS around 2000 and these movies used real models (possibly O gauge?). Were they also shown on British TV?

 

I have a very vague connection to the Reverend Awdry's mythical land of Sodor. My PhD fieldwork covered what used to be called Westmorland and Furness. I recognized that there must be a sedimentary basin offshore Barrow in Furness, between Furness and the Isle of Man. I remember that Wilbert Awdry had named his land Sodor, though in fact the Sodor of the Church included many other islands in western Scotland. So my sedimentary basin was named the Sodor Basin but only in my thesis which I never published.

 

Years later I saw that the land of Sodor has been depicted as a shape similar to the Isle of Wight in exactly that position of my sedimentary basin!

 

This goes to show how children's imaginations can last throughout life, so there may well be a future for model railways, thanks to the good Reverend (and those who own the rights!)

 

And, as it happens, British Gas subsequently found gas offshore in "my" basin, which is used for seasonal storage and production.

[coachmann]

I can only speak of my own route, but the more I learned the more I learned. Searching through picture books of trains at the age of five made me realise there was more than just the LMS and LNER (BR hadn't yet happened). By my late teens I was an avid library member getting wildly excited about everything LNWR and Midland in the late 19th Century. If such experiences are common, the lad born into the privatised railway era of the 1990's might end up more interested in the late 1940s once he has 'discovered' it. And the fact that he can still experience steam at work and purchase models must be additional plus factors. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by coachmann

[Zomboid]

We probably shouldn't forget the impact of Thomas the Tank Engine on young railway enthusiasts, potentially bringing them on board as future modelers.

 

The children's TV programs narrated by Ringo Starr and George Carlin were very popular on PBS around 2000 and these movies used real models (possibly O gauge?). Were they also shown on British TV?

 

They certainly were. I wore out the tapes we had of them (Saw one of the recent CGI ones a couple of weeks back, and was appalled; I don't remember a 9F called "Maurice" or whatever they've added since I moved on from Thomas. I'm probably just getting old).

 

The "modern image" at the time I got into railways was BR sectorisation, and what I got to see at my local station were the NSE lines out of Waterloo. I wasn't really aware of what was going on until things like the REPs and Loco Hauled trains were a thing of the past, and for me a 455 was an exciting novelty. I suppose it's hardly surprising that I've subsequently gone through being interested in BR Blue era, and now American railroads...

[petethemole]

That first picture of the prototype Deltic is mystifying in that it seems to be hauling LNER teak coaches! I guess the colours on the film have rather gone awry over the years.

 

The fourth coach looks like a Mk 1 (no visible trussing) so the stock was presumably all maroon.

 

pete

[Tony Wright]

As promised, some pictures of GN Atlantics.

 

 

As mentioned, Phil (Brighton) visited last week, bringing his DJH C1 which he's still in the process of lining. A most laudable effort, wouldn't you agree, especially since it's only his fourth or fifth loco? 

 

 

And a static shot of it running (very, very well) on Little Bytham. Thanks once more Phil for posting the videos. 

Looking at the two pictures, it occurred to me how different the colour renditions are between the D3 (top picture) and the Df (bottom picture), even though the lighting was ostensibly 'white'. Looking at the two shots of the prototype Deltic seen earlier, isn't it interesting how different in colour they are?  

 

 

I've now completed the DJH Klondike, ready to be taken up to run on Grantham the weekend after next. Because of the Code 100 track, I decided to fit the older-style Romford drivers, unlike on the EM version (which has RP25 drivers and is currently being painted). The estimable Mr York was taking pictures on LB this afternoon for use in the forthcoming Bookazine - my photographic skills have now been left miles behind! I was very pleased with his assessment of how the brand new 4-4-2 ran.

 

This is an absolutely cracking kit (though not for those who use springing/compensation). Though I didn't actually keep a time, I'd say it took me no more than 30-35 hours. Less than the J69 0-6-0T written up in BRM some little time ago.  

Edited June 22, 2015 by Tony Wright

[kenw]

The fourth coach looks like a Mk 1 (no visible trussing) so the stock was presumably all maroon.

 

My first impression was the coaches in the first photo appeared to be in LNER teak, having a brownish look.

However, clicking to enlarge for photo for closer inspection, they have the BR lining and numbering style, so they are definitely maroon.

The colour film emulsions from this period can be just as unreliable as the actual paints

[jrg1]

Delighted to see the LB landscaping progressing, and providing an excellent backdrop to photograph the locomotives and trains-More please!

[Andy Reichert]

Lots of lovely pictures.

 

I was an immediate post war child, but I still have vague toddler memories of the first few East London suburban trains I saw whizzing past having some grubby teak finish and the number "3" on the lower doors. And then shortly afterwards being instead a dark brown or or dirty maroon. And of course the Sunday "excursion specials" to Southend, Clacton, etc., were a real mixture of various old creaky panelled corridor stock. But what a treat, to be able to explore the whole length of the train .

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

Those shots of the prototype Deltic and the difference in the colours made me dig through my library of model railway pictures to see how the various manufacturers have interpreted its appearance. 

 

 

This is the Bachmann/NRM model running on the late Dave Shakespeare's Tetleys Mills. I'm not sure if this is the pre-weathered one, but, knowing Dave, he would have probably added more muck. He's fitted all the bufferbeam detail.

 

 

The same item (though a different example) on Gilbert Barnatt's Peterborough North. This might be a pre-weathered one as well - if not, it'll have been weathered (by Tim Easter?). 

 

 

 

Farish's N gauge prototype Deltic in pristine condition.

 

 

 

Hugely impressive, the Loveless Deltic in gauge O. Note how the colour is darker than the Bachmann or Farish interpretation.

 

 

My own Kitmaster/Lima model from getting on for 40 years ago (when did the Lima Deltic first appear, for that's what its chassis is?). I painted this, mixing up the blue to the colour I though correct, then, years later, my elder son as a mid-teenager weathered it for me. 

 

Though referred to often in print as the 'Ice Cream Cart', I never heard it referred to as that - just the 'Deltic'. I must admit, I didn't pay much attention to it. It couldn't be underlined in my 1956 Ian Allan abc Midland Region half crown book after I'd seen it at Hartford, because it wasn't in it. The last time I saw it in action (or rather in-action) was at Retford in 1960, when it broke down and had to be towed towards Doncaster complete with its train by Retford's B1 'Rocket'!

Edited June 23, 2015 by Tony Wright

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

That first picture of the prototype Deltic is mystifying in that it seems to be hauling LNER teak coaches! I guess the colours on the film have rather gone awry over the years. It just illustrates though how interesting the railway scene once was and why folk were attracted to it...

This was the fantastic moment in the UK's railway development: the best part of a century of its complete history still on view, while the traction and stock was changing to what would be standard for the next fifty years. Never again would such variety be on view. Carriage stock that was pre-group in concept was still working out of KX - in fact DP1 would go out of service well before the Quad-Arts - and DP1 out on the ECML would pass locos like Hitchin's J15 of a design that dated to the mid 1880s.

 

Born too late to see the LNER's stock in varnished teak, a railwayman I asked about it pointed to a Gresley full brake which was covered in dust and thus grey brown all over, no trace of the BR paint. "Once the varnish was badly worn, that's pretty much what it looked like" said he.

[Izzy]

I believe the first Deltic shot is basically correct as regards depicted colours, there is no obvious colour cast cause by the film stock or lighting conditions, and the leading coaches teak/brown in tone. The second shot has a noticeable majenta cast, indicating that perhaps this was taken on Kodachrome, of which this was a feature. Remove this in a photo editor and the blue of the Deltic becomes the kind of faded blue often seen after a period of use and exposure to sunlight/weather, but the coaches are obviously maroon/crimson&cream.  I would thus surmise the first was taken early in it's life, hence the mating with the Gresley's, the second much later.

 

Izzy

[coachmann]

It wasn't that film emulsions could not be trusted; each manufacturer's product produced different results. Kodak Kodachrome 25 tended to be 'warm' while Kodak Ektachrome was cool and so both delivered different hues. I exposed thousands of slides between 1977 and 2000 before going digital and seeing as they were published at the time they were taken, the human eye and mind accepted the differences in colour because everyone knew what colour railway equipment was anyway. If one takes into consideration the interpretation of colour by the film emulsion, the exposure used by the photographer, the colour of light at a given time of the day, then add in the vagaries of scanning said slides for publication and then the inks used on varying quality of paper, the whole thing about published colour can be a veritable minefield if one takes things too seriously.

 

Digital is no different and is affected by the camera chip (Canon produces bright reds bordering on pink while Nikon plays red down to carmine for a given exposure). Post-editing on a PC adds its own vagaries. 

 

Speaking as one who has spent most of his life painting model locos and coaches for others, the best advice I can give is use Precision Paints as the gold-standard. Blood & custard was the new exciting livery when I was a young boy.  60-odd years on I might not remember the "exact" shade of fresh paint but I know when a restoration project has got it wrong. On the other hand it might also be down to handling railway colours on a daily basis long past the time when they stopped being used by real railways. To me such liveries as SR dark olive, GWR prewar green, LNER Doncaster green, BR loco green, blood & custard or LMS/BR lake are as fresh in my mind as if they were still in daily use simply because of my day job. But as my self-imposed cut off point is pre-Corporate blue, I wouldn't know if rail blue or any of the colours that followed are correct or not and I would have to depend on Precision Paint.

Edited June 23, 2015 by coachmann