Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

These stories of judging at shows are quite amusing.

 

One little tip when you see the judges coming round. Make sure you bribe the right judge.  Mr Wright was stood in front of my mate's layout with clipboard in hand at the Glasgow show, last year. He was offered some sweets which he took and thanked us for then explained he wasn't judging my mate's layout. 

 

I am by nature non competitive so when I have been invited to exhibit a layout, I have done so just being happy to be asked. I find it strange when other modellers get upset their train set has not won best in show, in fact sometimes funny when you hear them moaning that the judge has a bias to a certain railway or doesn't like their form of model traction etc. The public vote is even stranger, another layout I was helping with came second to the Lego layout, my friend was not over impressed.

[great central]

5 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

These stories of judging at shows are quite amusing.

 

One little tip when you see the judges coming round. Make sure you bribe the right judge.  Mr Wright was stood in front of my mate's layout with clipboard in hand at the Glasgow show, last year. He was offered some sweets which he took and thanked us for then explained he wasn't judging my mate's layout. 

 

 

 

Distraction tactics and unobtrusive judging?

We get a certain amount of unobtrusive as well as properly monitored assessments over the course of the year as part of our continued competence compliance.

[rowanj]

Re the earlier posts about pre-grouping (ex-NER) in LNER Brown in BR days ...

 

The photo below has a 1956 date, and shows an ex-NER Brake/Comp in Brown... and quite dark at that!. I.m not sure what colour the coach ends are, but the one you can see looks black. Note that the central footboard between the bogies has gone, and the numbers are yellow, BR style, at the RH end. 

 

My own efforts have now lost the N from the NE, but I may relocate the number on the brake.

[juke]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Syd,

An enlightening post indeed.

What I find a bit disconcerting (not with your post, I hasten to add) is that a high-quality and highly-priced vehicle (or vehicles) should need attention from the owner(s) in order for it (them) to operate successfully.

When I pointed out to the proprietor the poor running/derailments on the Coronation set I had to assess, he said 'It's your trackwork which must be at fault'.  I replied by stating 'So, are you saying, that your train will not run without problems over track made and laid by the finest exponent of the craft, nor will it run over the 'industry standard (Peco)?'.

As I say, I heard nothing more, the set was returned and my review was 'pulled' (it would have done nobody any good). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I would have liked to see your review Tony. It was interesting to hear that even LB's trackwork didn't suit these coaches. Proves they need sorting (the coaches that is).

If he does manage to get back into business maybe he'll listen to you this time.

My track is the first I had laid so a few areas did need sorted but there is definitely other forces between the couplers (body mounted) and the bogies yet to be resolved.

 

Syd

[geoff west]

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I get all my wheels from Markits direct.................. 01923 249711.

 

Mention me, and Mark will commiserate with you!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

He does with me every time.

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Many thanks to everyone who’s offered advice on my A1 valve gear. It proves what a remarkable resource RMWeb and this thread in particular is. I’ve fastened up (hard) the tiny nut at the bottom of the drop link which was loose on both sides. This seems to stop it flopping about. I’ll solder it firmly in place once I’ve fully test run it for a few weeks. 
 

The eccentric crank was very loose so I had to dismantle that part and resolder. That also seems to have worked and the while valve gear now looks fine when running.

I have to say it’s very confusing with lots of different terminology not all matching Tim’s excellent diagram. I begin to see why people are attracted to the GWR ‘Russian Dolls’!

 

Now onto Tony’s other home work which should be straightforward! 

 

 

 

Afternoon Greenie,

 

that's because the bits you're interested in are not marked on the diagram. Now, if you were building your own locomotive, you would soon get up to speed.................. I'm trying to pick my favourite train formation from your images that move. The Elizabethan is quite nice looking but everybody has one of those, well, at least the RF and TO apparently, even if they are unlikely to have been built. The car sleeper is pretty cool, a similar formation started running from the Marylebone to Edinburgh in the same year. There was also a second car sleeper formed of LMS stock that ran from Marylebone to Glasgow at the same time. I think the four wheel CCTS,  that you have used, actually look better than the later bogie vans. Anything of yours with the Gresley sleeping cars looks pretty brilliant. I think your 02 needs putting down though!

 

I still haven't done any modelling in the current climate, I had an awesome garden fire this morning and burnt all the garden rubbish and I shall now GO mow the lawns. Tomorrow looks stormy, so perhaps then I will return to the work bench.

[jwealleans]

Quote

...another layout I was helping with came second to the Lego layout, my friend was not over impressed.

 

That happened to us at Southwold with Thurston... by 1 vote.   The Lego layout was fantastic, though, with trains appearing and disappearing all over the place.  I had a long chat with the guy who was explaining how he'd sourced packs and parts from abroad to make particular combinations of vehicles and spent literally thousands on it.   We asked him to our show, but the thing took 7 hours to put up so for a 1 dayer it wasn't worth it. 

 

If you build model railways competitively, you're not in the same hobby as most of the rest of us IMHO.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Hi Tony,

 

I love seeing all the passenger trains, but I am a goods wagon tragic.

 

Can we see photos of more goods trains please?

 

Mundane, ordinary stuff... nothing fancy!

 

I am possibly the only person so inclined, but nothing beats a grimy 2-8-0 hauling a nice long train of open wagons and vans

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

Good afternoon Craig,

 

What I'm doing is working through the sequence on LB; which, as dictated by the prototype PTT and WTT is mainly passenger traffic, mostly long and long-distance. 

 

There are a few freights to come. However, even though it's a four track main line, a lot of the slow mineral traffic to and from the Yorkshire pits would have gone down the joint line to Peterborough or to March. Coal traffic through LB would have originated mainly in Nottinghamshire. 

 

 

I arranged this picture based on a Gavin Morrison picture, and it was published in the RM earlier this year. It's odd that empties like this would be given the fast road, but that's how it was in the real picture. This working is not part of the sequence.

 

Not much point rodding present here.

 

 

Another 'arranged' shot, because it's highly-unlikely that a loco (other than that on the pick-up, which this O4 isn't) would be standing in the limestone loading dock.

 

The Austerity is the same as in the previous shot, and will appear again.

 

Are these two grimy enough? The Austerity is my work; the O4 Tony Geary's. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[The Johnster]

It may have been different in other parts of the country, but in South Wales coal empties were given the road if possible and allowed to run.  There was a fundamental imbalance between loaded and empty wagons, because of the time it took for a loaded wagon to leave the colliery before it was unloaded. This may have been waiting for a ship at the ports, or to be unloaded at a steelworks, or, particularly in the case of household coal, being used as a store in the coal yards.  Demurrage was charged of course, but it was often cheaper for the merchants to pay up, eventually after delaying as much as possible in the hope of getting away with it.  

 

Moreover, most South Wales pits were on restricted sites at valley bottoms or along hillsides, so any siding capacity rapidly filled with loaded coal wagons awaiting clearance, several times a day in some cases.  But it was essential to have a supply of empties to put raised coal into as quickly as possible after it was wound to the surface.  No empties meant that the cutting at the faces had to stop fairly quickly and productivity dropped.  

 

So, there was always an urgency to empty coal workings; my abiding memory is of 56xx climbing out of Cardiff on the Rhymney main line with them, rather like terriers straining at the leash, all pull.  Posters urging the swift return of empties were sent out to shunters cabins and signalboxes; it was an issue everyone was well aware of, and our 'across the back' neighbour worked in an office at Queen St. with the task of chasing up empties, so I was aware of it as well even as a child.  The problem was visible, lines of sidings full of loaded awaiting tipping at the docks, and even in the early 60s, storage sidings at places like Crwys, Roath Jc, Cherry Orchard, Aber, Cadoxton, Rogerstone, Alexandra Dock Newport, or Stormstown just as full.  There were always a lot more loaded coal wagons than empties, even MGRs.

 

The Steelworks and Power Stations liked to stockpile loaded wagons, and the pits couldn't get the empties back quick enough.  A train of empties, which you might expect to be at the very bottom of the pathing food chain, was given as much preference as possible and always seemed to convey a sense of urgency.  Perhaps the best illustration of this was Radyr, where late afternoon and early evening would have loaded coal trains backed up as far as Treforest awaiting entry to the yard on the permissive block down goods, but anything heading up the valley had a clear road all the way to Pontypridd on the up goods; you never saw trains queuing there, ever!

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, rowanj said:

Re the earlier posts about pre-grouping (ex-NER) in LNER Brown in BR days ...

 

The photo below has a 1956 date, and shows an ex-NER Brake/Comp in Brown... and quite dark at that!. I.m not sure what colour the coach ends are, but the one you can see looks black. Note that the central footboard between the bogies has gone, and the numbers are yellow, BR style, at the RH end. 

 

My own efforts have now lost the N from the NE, but I may relocate the number on the brake.

 

 

 

Afternoon John,

 

here's a colour corrected version, with the yellow tint removed, is that Beck hole? I think that the darker brown looks fine, I suggested that a mix, of matt black with a little rust, applied as a wash would bring out the detail in the beading etc and darken the colour if required. The colour could vary quite a bit, I was told by an ex painter, some twenty years ago now, that the colour was a mix of red oxide/bauxite and wagon grey, so as long as it looks like mud, not teak, you should be alright.  As a contrast, the Gresley 5 compartment BT at the back, looks to be in genuine teak.

 

P.s. All ends wood be black.

 

You mean relocate the number on the compo not the brake. Left hand end correct, right hand end likely wrong.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Headstock

[ROY@34F]

19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Butt away Roy,

 

You've actually fired A1s! 

 

I'm slightly puzzled by your description. My understanding is that the return crank leans forwards on A1s (or any LNER Pacific). That is to say, if it's the left-hand side, at bottom dead centre, the crank will be pointing towards half-past ten. On the right-hand) offside) it'll be pointing towards half-past one. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony ,

I was referring to the actual photo where the crank pin is at TOP dead centre where the return crank or eccentric arm/crank (as we were taught) is therefore at 7 o'clock on  the RH side , and at 5 o'clock on the LH side , or thereabouts . Actually 5 o'clock & 7 o'clock is a bit out I reckon , 4 or 4.30 & 7.30 . or 8 would be better . You're quite right of course if the crank pin is at BOTTEM dead centre , the eccentric will be where you say , roughly 10.30 on the left side .

What may have been confusing was when I said the eccentric follows the wheel crankpin position by 1/4 of a turn plus a bit (for lap and lead steam) . This applies wherever the crankpin position is , the eccentric follows it . That is with wheels the rotating forward .

Hope that makes sense .

Pat and I are quite well thanks Tony .

 

Regards , Roy .

[ROY@34F]

20 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Andrew, very useful. There does seem to be a tiny bit of movement in the joint where the drop link attaches to the cross head (if I’ve understood the correct parts!). Is that something which we just ignore in 4mm scale?

 

Andy

 

Andy ,

The drop link or crosshead arm (as we were taught) definitely is fixed to the crosshead and doesn't wiggle about .

 

Regards, Roy.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Greenie,

 

that's because the bits you're interested in are not marked on the diagram. Now, if you were building your own locomotive, you would soon get up to speed.................. I'm trying to pick my favourite train formation from your images that move. The Elizabethan is quite nice looking but everybody has one of those, well, at least the RF and TO apparently, even if they are unlikely to have been built. The car sleeper is pretty cool, a similar formation started running from the Marylebone to Edinburgh in the same year. There was also a second car sleeper formed of LMS stock that ran from Marylebone to Glasgow at the same time. I think the four wheel CCTS,  that you have used, actually look better than the later bogie vans. Anything of yours with the Gresley sleeping cars looks pretty brilliant. I think your 02 needs putting down though!

 

I still haven't done any modelling in the current climate, I had an awesome garden fire this morning and burnt all the garden rubbish and I shall now GO mow the lawns. Tomorrow looks stormy, so perhaps then I will return to the work bench.

I have built my own valve gear (with some help from Tony). But I’ve only done it twice, and I think I’d need to do it several times in close succession to really embed the learning.

 

Thanks for your comments on my Gresley Jn train sets. My favourites are the Elizabethan and the three sleeper trains (Car sleeper, Aberdonian and Night Scotsman). What’s wrong with the O2 - is it just because it’s RTR?

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

12 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have built my own valve gear (with some help from Tony). But I’ve only done it twice, and I think I’d need to do it several times in close succession to really embed the learning.

 

Thanks for your comments on my Gresley Jn train sets. My favourites are the Elizabethan and the three sleeper trains (Car sleeper, Aberdonian and Night Scotsman). What’s wrong with the O2 - is it just because it’s RTR?

 

 

 

 

 

Andy,

 

judging by your surprised response, if must have been a problem with the playback, it made it  look like the locomotive was jerky, I shall go watch it again. I was only joking on the valve gear, of course, you will have to make it fully working now, don't forget about the nogin giblet prong.

[ROY@34F]

21 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

If you can picture a tiny crosshead working in slide bars for the piston valve, then the combination level moving forwards and backwards travels round a unequal arc, in that the pivot is near the top, so the long part at the bottom moves much further than the short bit above the piston valve. As the length on that link is fixed, the bottom of the combination lever swings round in a back and forth arc. The union link has to be able to move up and down a bit in relation to the crosshead and the bottom of the combination lever. Most model valve gear has pivots at both ends of the union link but doesn't mimic the full movement as there is usually no movement on the valve.

 

In model form, very few have a working piston valve and most are modelled in mid gear, so the piston valve would not move if it is modelled at all. The combination lever makes sure that the two sources of movement, the crosshead and the expansion link, "Combine" (hence the name) to create the right amount of movement of the piston valve, in the right direction at the right time!

 

I hope I have that about right. It was how Malcolm Crawley explained it to me many years ago. 

 

I don't know if all valve gears were like that. Some railways may have had other dodges to take account of the arc of movement but that is how it was done on proper railways like the LNER.  

Your description sounds spot on Tony . I agree with all you've said and you've explained it far better than I could . You had a good tutor and friend in Malcolm . I remember many interesting conversations with him .

Regards , Roy .

[RLBH]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A train of empties, which you might expect to be at the very bottom of the pathing food chain, was given as much preference as possible and always seemed to convey a sense of urgency.

 

It's worth noting in this context some figures from the first Beeching report: in an average trip, a coal wagon spent 3.7 days in terminal working (loading and unloading), 1.7 days moving whilst loaded, and just 1.2 days moving whilst empty. Meanwhile, it spent 4 days sitting idle somewhere that wasn't either terminal!

[Tony Wright]

With talk recently of GAM's carriages, I think it's only fair to show how beautiful they look.

 

 

This is a pair from the West Riding, in OO. 

[grahame]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With talk recently of GAM's carriages, I think it's only fair to show how beautiful they look.

 

 

 

Interesting. And nice.

 

The livery looks like it may well have inspired the blue/grey BR corporate one and the boxed in underframe between the bogies appears to look like it was replicated by the BR Mk3 coach, while, of course, the Eurostar class 373 has shared bogies. Presumably they all also quality as beautiful when in such pristine condition.

 

 

[glo41f]

Thanks for all the lovely pictures Tony which are very cheering in these difficult days. You mentioned the stoppers or Parlys which called at LB. I wonder what the passenger take up for these was as it is such a small place. Is there any records of the passengers starting or finishing journeys there?

 

Martin Long

[Tony Wright]

I mentioned earlier that I'd post more pictures of LB's sequence tomorrow. 

 

Well, I've told a fib. I thought I'd do a bit more point rodding today but the enthusiasm was lacking. So, what to do? Arrange/take more pictures........................

 

 

The next train is the Down 'Flying Scotsman'. By rights, 'The Elizabethan' should be going north as well, but, as mentioned, practicalities/resources mean I cannot represent every train; not without using stock more than once that is - OK if it's a single set like 'The Master Cutler' or 'The Tees-Tyne Pullman', but I still can't have (nor want, really) a model of every train which ran through LB on a given summer's day in 1958, especially where trains have two sets. To run the sequence takes about two and a half hours. To run the whole BR timetable would take days! Or even weeks. 

 

 

I was asked yesterday for an overall view looking south, so here it is. The train is still 'The Flying Scotsman', but the sharp-eyed might note, even though the loco is the same one, the headboard has changed. I'm pleased with the point rodding, but there's still a gap. Tomorrow? 

 

 

 

The next Up train is a morning Newcastle-Kings Cross express. The first two cars originated from Newcastle Tyne Commission Quay and linked with an overnight boat train. They were brought from the Quay by a V1/V3 and attached to the front of the train at Newcastle Central. 

 

The catering was provided by the ex-'Silver Jubilee' triplet set. 

 

 

Not all the trains are long or long-distance. Next in line is a trip freight from Essendine to Grantham, conveying tractors in its consist. 

 

 

I suppose this really is a summer Saturday extra Kings Cross-West Riding service. I pored through many photographic books and this sort of mixture (entirely kit-built) was typical, including a horse box as the leading vehicle (not kit-built).  

 

 

Another freight going north. This one sets back into the Down north lay-by during the sequence.

 

 

While it does that, the southbound 'Yorkshire Pullman' belts through. 

 

Closely followed by the northbound 'Queen of Scots'.

 

 

 

The freight is safely tucked away as Pullman glides past. Though a bit wobbly in places, I'm happy enough with the rodding.

 

 

A northbound light engine diesel will overtake the freight. 

 

 

The freight has left the lay-by and the Down 'Northumbrian is next. The catering set in this train is the ex-1938 Scotsman PV triplet. 

 

More tomorrow.......

 

 

[Tony Wright]

12 minutes ago, glo41f said:

Thanks for all the lovely pictures Tony which are very cheering in these difficult days. You mentioned the stoppers or Parlys which called at LB. I wonder what the passenger take up for these was as it is such a small place. Is there any records of the passengers starting or finishing journeys there?

 

Martin Long

'Is there any records of the passengers starting or finishing journeys there?'

 

Only anecdotal, Martin; from villagers I've spoken to, some, sadly, no longer with us. 

 

To go longer distances, a change would probably have to be made at either Peterborough or Grantham after taking the train from Bytham. One common trip was to take an Up train to Essendine, change there, then take the train to Stamford East return, particularly on market day. Such a service today (in normal times, of course) would be wonderful, and there is definitely a need now for a 'parkway' station on Stoke Bank, such has been the growth of Bourne and the some of the surrounding villages. 

 

However, Little Bytham Station was not greatly-used back just before closure. In every prototype picture I've got of it there are no passengers! 

 

Thanks for your kind comments.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[BoD]

It is interesting to see how that, in most photographs, the backscene blends in seamlessly yet one photo shows it to be, in parts, quite separate from the layout. It just goes to show that, with careful design, the eye can be easily deceived.

 

A while back you started to discuss the techniques you used when photographing your layout. Would it be rude to ask you to share the lighting set up you use for photography?  Without revealing too many secrets of the trade of course.

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I am by nature non competitive so when I have been invited to exhibit a layout, I have done so just being happy to be asked. I find it strange when other modellers get upset their train set has not won best in show, in fact sometimes funny when you hear them moaning that the judge has a bias to a certain railway or doesn't like their form of model traction etc. The public vote is even stranger, another layout I was helping with came second to the Lego layout, my friend was not over impressed.

 

If I'd been there my laughter would have been heard miles away.

 

The earlier comment about competition-standard rolling stock being unable to roll reminds me of concours events at classic car shows.  Suspicious that many regular entrants' cars weren't actually drive-able, some organisers stipulated that the car must be driven to the event.  There were soon numerous reports of immaculate cars being unloaded off trailers in quiet streets a mile from the showground.

 

I could never see the point of a "Who's polished their car the most?" contest. 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, RLBH said:

 

It's worth noting in this context some figures from the first Beeching report: in an average trip, a coal wagon spent 3.7 days in terminal working (loading and unloading), 1.7 days moving whilst loaded, and just 1.2 days moving whilst empty. Meanwhile, it spent 4 days sitting idle somewhere that wasn't either terminal!

Not just idle; cheap storage for the customer at the expense of the railway, which for it’s pains was being constantly badgered by the Coal Board for ever more empties, yesterday, at the same time as the same Coal Board continued the pre-nationalisation game of resisting any attempt by the railway to improve efficiency with larger capacity vacuum braked wagons that could run faster. 
 

 

[Erichill16]

The thread is moving quickly, I was going to show off my A3, but posting moved on to K3 but by the time I got chance to look for my K3 thread moved on again! Getting a bit jealous about how much modelling is getting done. By the time this virus business is over my home will need quite a lot of ‘housework’ doing and the garden will be the same so modelling time may be at a premium.

Anyway it’s encouraging that armchair modellers are beginning   to rise from their Shackletons.

Goodnight everyone,

Robert