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Tony Wright

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Couple of technical questions for the loco builders.  1) when constructing a chassis/motor assembly, do you fix the motor in place (glue) or do you allow it to pivot depending on loco direction? and 2) why is an all brass pin (rivet) recommended for assembling valve gear if one is using the soldered pin approach rather than the riveted approach?  Note I have access here in the GWN (where we are scheduled to get up to 40cm os snow tomorrow) to brass coated steel pins of the correct size but will have to order pure brass pins from the UK.

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2 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Since I was at his house talking 0gauge trams with him last week and having spent my working life as a flight surgeon, I believe I would have noticed if Adrian was dead.

As noted above, I got him mixed up with someone else.

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4 minutes ago, Theakerr said:

Couple of technical questions for the loco builders.  1) when constructing a chassis/motor assembly, do you fix the motor in place (glue) or do you allow it to pivot depending on loco direction? and 2) why is an all brass pin (rivet) recommended for assembling valve gear if one is using the soldered pin approach rather than the riveted approach?  Note I have access here in the GWN (where we are scheduled to get up to 40cm os snow tomorrow) to brass coated steel pins of the correct size but will have to order pure brass pins from the UK.

Thanks

I'd never glue a motor/gearbox in place in a set of frames. I've heard folk advocate the use of silicon bathroom sealant to hold a drive in place, but I can't say I've ever tried it. 

 

Almost without exception, I make a live chassis. This means finding a return route for the electricity from the motor back through the frames. I achieve this by soldering a piece of fine wire (.45mm brass/nickel silver or 15Amp fusewire) between one brush connector and the frames. This acts as a return route and also anchors the motor/gearbox, preventing it flapping about inside the loco body. 

 

506818256_SEFinecastA407.jpg.5313869192a0044807fe14330392f986.jpg

 

The wire here is .45mm nickel silver.

 

575507934_B16motorfixing.jpg.6588f6bd72e366870886e82eae180257.jpg.

 

If I make a dead chassis, I anchor the 'box to the frames with the same type of wire, fixed between the frame of the 'box and the frames themselves; as here.

 

Why all-brass pins for valve gear? Much easier to cut. How many Xurons can one find with the jaws destroyed because of trying to cut steel wire with them?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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28 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'd never glue a motor/gearbox in place in a set of frames. I've heard folk advocate the use of silicon bathroom sealant to hold a drive in place, but I can't say I've ever tried it. 

 

Almost without exception, I make a live chassis. This means finding a return route for the electricity from the motor back through the frames. I achieve this by soldering a piece of fine wire (.45mm brass/nickel silver or 15Amp fusewire) between one brush connector and the frames. This acts as a return route and also anchors the motor/gearbox, preventing it flapping about inside the loco body. 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_02/506818256_SEFinecastA407.jpg.5313869192a0044807fe14330392f986.jpg

 

The wire here is .45mm nickel silver.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_02/575507934_B16motorfixing.jpg.6588f6bd72e366870886e82eae180257.jpg.

 

If I make a dead chassis, I anchor the 'box to the frames with the same type of wire, fixed between the frame of the 'box and the frames themselves; as here.

 

Why all-brass pins for valve gear? Much easier to cut. How many Xurons can one find with the jaws destroyed because of trying to cut steel wire with them?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

That last picture looks suspiciously like a PDK B16/1, Mr Wright. If so,will you illustrate how to organise the leading bogie to go round curves. It took me about 3 attempts.

Best wishes

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49 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Those look amazing Headstock! There is something about Gresley stock that just sings out to me.

 

A similar theme but a different designed and a much earlier item of rolling stock:

 

1493578746_HowldenLavComposite1.jpg.22c3705649447cd287488bb0df235be5.jpg

 

My attempt at an N Gauge Howlden lavatory composite. This has just gone on the printer and is actually two parts (the roof being separate). I've based this on the drawings published by the late Nick Campling in his volume of 'Historic Carriage Drawings' and it is the first of six coaches I need to make to represent the 1934 2:04pm Cambridge-Kings Cross service (there is a clerestory in the set as well!).

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Lovely! Do you mind advising the major component suppliers? Thanks :)

 

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3 hours ago, rowanj said:

That last picture looks suspiciously like a PDK B16/1, Mr Wright. If so,will you illustrate how to organise the leading bogie to go round curves. It took me about 3 attempts.

Best wishes

It is John,

 

The problem is  can't remember how I configured the bogie (I don't own the finished loco). 

 

From memory, I think I restricted the bogie's movement, at the same time giving a bit more sideways slop to the centre and driving axles. It was imperative to make the chassis electrically-dead as well, otherwise there's the inevitable risk of shorts. For good measure, I think I smeared a little Araldite on to the inside outer faces of the cylinders. 

 

The minimum radius it'll go round is 3'. 

 

Hope this helps. 

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Could Jamie Guest get in touch with me, please?

 

I seem to have 'lost' your email Jamie, and I've tried sending you a PM but I keep on getting 'inbox' full' (despite my having just deleted dozens of messages).

 

The reason is, I had a chat with a chap at Doncaster who'd like to obtain a set of etchings for the MR/M&GNR girder bridge you so kindly designed. I told him it would be courtesy to ask you first before contacting Grainge and Hodder.

 

Many thanks in anticipation,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo

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The only supplier of the 5 compartment BTK I could find when I was building them for Grantham was Bill Bedford (Mousa).   Is that the D. 7 Composite as well, the less common type?  I had to source mine from him as well.

 

Ian Kirk used to do one but I understand the masters were irreparably damaged some time ago.

 

Tony, is that the B16/1 which is now in my possession?  If so I'll photograph the bogie arrangement and send John pictures when I'm next at home (which will be in a week's time).  It runs on Grantham and is fine round 3' curves (but struggles a little with the short radius points in the fiddle yards).

Edited by jwealleans
Vestibules.
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1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

Lovely! Do you mind advising the major component suppliers? Thanks :)

 

 

Evening chaps, I've just been chucked out of the software again while composing a reply. Dose anybody know how you report such things, or where the recovery software is? I shall try again later.

 

1 hour ago, Atso said:

 

Those look amazing Headstock! There is something about Gresley stock that just sings out to me.

 

A similar theme but a different designed and a much earlier item of rolling stock:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_02/1493578746_HowldenLavComposite1.jpg.22c3705649447cd287488bb0df235be5.jpg

 

My attempt at an N Gauge Howlden lavatory composite. This has just gone on the printer and is actually two parts (the roof being separate). I've based this on the drawings published by the late Nick Campling in his volume of 'Historic Carriage Drawings' and it is the first of six coaches I need to make to represent the 1934 2:04pm Cambridge-Kings Cross service (there is a clerestory in the set as well!).

 

Lovely stuff, you can see the family resemblance. Some years ago I use to work as a 3d artist in the likes of 3d Studio Max, it's funny that I spend my time in Railway modeling burning my fingers and sniffing glue.

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10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Congratulations to you both!

Thank you.

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27 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

The only supplier of the 5 compartment BTK I could find when I was building them for Grantham was Bill Bedford (Mousa).   Is that the D. 7 Composite as well, the less common type?  I had to source mine from him as well.

 

Ian Kirk used to do one but I understand the masters were irreparably damaged some time ago.

 

Tony, is that the B16/1 which is now in my possession?  If so I'll photograph the bogie arrangement and send John pictures when I'm next at home (which will be in a week's time).  It runs on Grantham and is fine round 3' curves (but struggles a little with the short radius points in the fiddle yards).

 

Evening Jonathan,

 

quick reply, if I type for any length of time I get logged out of the forum.  The BT 5 is the Comet sides but with MJT droplights, it may be the BT 6 that you are thinking of from Bill Bedford. The CK is diag 130 (3 1/2-4), very common on the GC in the five sets post war. I think that they were the only composite of that type on angle iron underframes.

 

P.s. this is the second atempt at posting this, I think I shall retire for the night. fortunatly I copied the text so that I could paste it back in after the forum went up the spout again.

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23 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening chaps, I've just been chucked out of the software again while composing a reply. Dose anybody know how you report such things, or where the recovery software is? I shall try again later.

 

 

Oh nuts :( I can't see anything about it autosaving like it used to. There is a thread here to report issues - 

 

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1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

The only supplier of the 5 compartment BTK I could find when I was building them for Grantham was Bill Bedford (Mousa).   Is that the D. 7 Composite as well, the less common type?  I had to source mine from him as well.

 

Ian Kirk used to do one but I understand the masters were irreparably damaged some time ago.

 

Tony, is that the B16/1 which is now in my possession?  If so I'll photograph the bogie arrangement and send John pictures when I'm next at home (which will be in a week's time).  It runs on Grantham and is fine round 3' curves (but struggles a little with the short radius points in the fiddle yards).

It is the same one Jonathan.

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4 hours ago, Atso said:

 

Those look amazing Headstock! There is something about Gresley stock that just sings out to me.

 

A similar theme but a different designed and a much earlier item of rolling stock:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_02/1493578746_HowldenLavComposite1.jpg.22c3705649447cd287488bb0df235be5.jpg

 

My attempt at an N Gauge Howlden lavatory composite. This has just gone on the printer and is actually two parts (the roof being separate). I've based this on the drawings published by the late Nick Campling in his volume of 'Historic Carriage Drawings' and it is the first of six coaches I need to make to represent the 1934 2:04pm Cambridge-Kings Cross service (there is a clerestory in the set as well!).

Steve that CAD looks terrific, good luck with getting a good print.

 

I built the Bill Bedford 4mm version a couple of years ago and it came out really well.

 

Andrew

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3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Oh nuts https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_sad.png I can't see anything about it autosaving like it used to. There is a thread here to report issues - 

 

 

Good evening Rich and apologies.

 

I shall type elsewhere and paste and post. My standard gangway Gresleys are a cross mix between MJT and Hornby. I can get the Hornby carriages cheap enough that the components that I use gives a considerable saving over sourcing the individual items separately. This is despite effectively scrapping the sides and the underframes. Up until the present time I have constructed around about forty five carriages in this manor plus five full MJT builds.

The basis is the MJT floor pan, these are produced in standard, brake and full brake configurations. The Hornby underfame is dimensional incorrect and is far too much work to make it right. I constructed the carriages like a Comet kit rather than the recommended MJT way so that the body separates from the underframes. I started off building full MJT kits, they are very good, not cheap and very heavy. A friend of mine has had a couple running for many years, he had to replace the original white meal bogies because they sagged under the weight. Much of this weight is in the domed roof ends, the carriage ends, the bogies and the angle iron.

 

My problem, bearing in mind I had no experience of such things, was getting a kit built locomotive to haul ten of these behemoths plus a Tavern car up a continuous 1/75 gradient. When the Hornby Gresleys came out, I thought great, problem solved, a simple brass side job. Imagine my disappointment, having bought one, to discover what a pig in a pope it turned out to be. Eventually I decided to experimentally rebuild my unwanted purchase. It turned out to have quite a silver lining as it was virtually indistinguishable from the MJT builds but had a number of advantages. These were in no particular order, a considerable saving in weight, Quicker to build and cheaper to purchase in the first place. In addition, I had established a standard way of doing things so that all my Gresley used an identical set of components and looked like the product of one companies workshops, rather than a hotch potch of different models purporting to be the same type of carriage.

 

I use the MJT Floorpan and inner ends, the underfame components ( the Hornby components such as battery boxes are dimensionally wrong) and some small white metal components such as roof and door ventilators. From the Hornby I use the ends and roof as one unit, the interior, often remodeled, the bogies and the underfame trussing. The latter is remodeled as Hornby cocked up the dimensions here, a bit of brass angle widens out the distance between the queen posts and two cross trusses are soldered to the top of it  to join the narrowed dimensions between the sole bars. This makes the whole thing nice and solid. I reuse some items such as the vac brake cylinder and the extended buffers on the end of brake carriages but some components such as the gangway is so dimensionally hopeless that they are better chucked in the bin. The sides come from almost any manufacturer depending on the diag required, though MJT are the best IMO. Hopefully this little lot will post and will be of some interest to yourself.

Edited by Headstock
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Sludge wagon for Brighton Junction, made out of spare bits and a GE tender. I have two London Road Models GNR tenders to build which will be coupled with this one. 

 

5AC98D14-2C90-4B31-8FC6-E0279687D234.jpeg.7c05c37df85fcf3cbe7a55e408d31bc3.jpeg

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On 06/02/2019 at 19:50, Tony Wright said:

With my most grateful thanks to Andy York, I'm now inserting (I hope) the second 1958 LB DVD. If you want to know more, may I suggest you buy the current issue of BRM, please? 

 

May I ask, please, if anyone 'likes' it, they make a donation on their own behalf to Cancer Research UK?

 

Many thanks in anticipation.  

 

The road into the goods yard reminds of a time some years ago when i got a call that Little Bytham generator was running at about 20:00. It was of course dark by the time I got there. My son had come along for the ride, and as I swept into the goods yard entrance, I didn't realise that the chap who had leased it had put a chain across the entrance. The people who were standing around outside the Willoughby Arms took a great deal of interest in my Mondeo hitting the chain, flipping it onto the roof and taking off the roof mounted aerial as it scraped over the car from bonnet to boot.  

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x487826d539cf4391:0x43294187795e340b!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/willoughby%2Barms%2Blittle%2Bbytham/@52.7435945,-0.4924935,3a,75y,25.68h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211s0UPkvPzL1KV7chjmZV5sfw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x487826d539cf4391:0x43294187795e340b!5swilloughby+arms+little+bytham+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2s0UPkvPzL1KV7chjmZV5sfw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW7MiT8rTgAhUKQRUIHb8yDf0Qpx8wCnoECAYQCw

 

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5 hours ago, 96701 said:

The road into the goods yard reminds of a time some years ago when i got a call that Little Bytham generator was running at about 20:00. It was of course dark by the time I got there. My son had come along for the ride, and as I swept into the goods yard entrance, I didn't realise that the chap who had leased it had put a chain across the entrance. The people who were standing around outside the Willoughby Arms took a great deal of interest in my Mondeo hitting the chain, flipping it onto the roof and taking off the roof mounted aerial as it scraped over the car from bonnet to boot.  

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x487826d539cf4391:0x43294187795e340b!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/willoughby%2Barms%2Blittle%2Bbytham/@52.7435945,-0.4924935,3a,75y,25.68h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211s0UPkvPzL1KV7chjmZV5sfw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x487826d539cf4391:0x43294187795e340b!5swilloughby+arms+little+bytham+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2s0UPkvPzL1KV7chjmZV5sfw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW7MiT8rTgAhUKQRUIHb8yDf0Qpx8wCnoECAYQCw

 

I feel your pain Phil. I once drove into New Cross Gate Yard around midnight in my MG Midget to see to a derailment. All the usual suspects were already there, so I swung round through 90 degrees intending to pull up just in front of them and leap out, ready for action. I pulled up all right - when the sump hit the remains of a telegraph pole sticking up about six inches out of the ground. It took me a long while to live that down - in fact I'm not sure that I ever did.

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Jesse,

 

Snap!

 

palvan-sludge-carrier.jpg

 

Using LRM tenders to make some more is a bit of a pricey way to go - you'd be better off (IMHO) using those with locos like your D2 and making the NuCast one into the carrier.  I have a feeling this one started behind a Stephen Poole E4 which now tows a Gibson tender.  Brass tenders are lighter and (usually) roll more freely, so your loco isn't working so hard to move itself before you hang all your heavy kit built vehicles behind it.

 

Andrew, are you sure all you've done to those sides is use the MJT droplights?  I don't really look at Comet for LNER carriages any more as having built their and the MJT versions of the same carriage side by side, the MJT was greatly superior to my eye.  I find the Comet sides look slightly squat and their beading can be very wide.  Bill's sides can go to the other extreme - beading like razor blades - but they work well with the MJT components and (minor point, but it helps) he etches in the hinge holes for you.  Those are lovely, as i'd expect from you.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Could Jamie Guest get in touch with me, please?

 

I seem to have 'lost' your email Jamie, and I've tried sending you a PM but I keep on getting 'inbox' full' (despite my having just deleted dozens of messages).

 

The reason is, I had a chat with a chap at Doncaster who'd like to obtain a set of etchings for the MR/M&GNR girder bridge you so kindly designed. I told him it would be courtesy to ask you first before contacting Grainge and Hodder.

 

Many thanks in anticipation,

 

Tony. 

No problem Tony, I'll get in touch.

 

Jamie

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3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Jesse,

 

Snap!

 

https://i.postimg.cc/xTsFmqz0/palvan-sludge-carrier.jpg

 

Using LRM tenders to make some more is a bit of a pricey way to go - you'd be better off (IMHO) using those with locos like your D2 and making the NuCast one into the carrier.  I have a feeling this one started behind a Stephen Poole E4 which now tows a Gibson tender.  Brass tenders are lighter and (usually) roll more freely, so your loco isn't working so hard to move itself before you hang all your heavy kit built vehicles behind it.

 

Andrew, are you sure all you've done to those sides is use the MJT droplights?  I don't really look at Comet for LNER carriages any more as having built their and the MJT versions of the same carriage side by side, the MJT was greatly superior to my eye.  I find the Comet sides look slightly squat and their beading can be very wide.  Bill's sides can go to the other extreme - beading like razor blades - but they work well with the MJT components and (minor point, but it helps) he etches in the hinge holes for you.  Those are lovely, as i'd expect from you.

 

 

 

 

Well I purchased the 2 kits over 2 years ago as a starting point to kit building, if they turned out horrible I was going to use them for the sludge tenders, but you make a good point. The D2 is at Tony’s at the moment, I think it needs a new chassis, thought I’d let Sir fix it, rather then me break it! 

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10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Rich and apologies.

 

I shall type elsewhere and paste and post. My standard gangway Gresleys are a cross mix between MJT and Hornby. I can get the Hornby carriages cheap enough that the components that I use gives a considerable saving over sourcing the individual items separately. This is despite effectively scrapping the sides and the underframes. Up until the present time I have constructed around about forty five carriages in this manor plus five full MJT builds.

The basis is the MJT floor pan, these are produced in standard, brake and full brake configurations. The Hornby underfame is dimensional incorrect and is far too much work to make it right. I constructed the carriages like a Comet kit rather than the recommended MJT way so that the body separates from the underframes. I started off building full MJT kits, they are very good, not cheap and very heavy. A friend of mine has had a couple running for many years, he had to replace the original white meal bogies because they sagged under the weight. Much of this weight is in the domed roof ends, the carriage ends, the bogies and the angle iron.

 

My problem, bearing in mind I had no experience of such things, was getting a kit built locomotive to haul ten of these behemoths plus a Tavern car up a continuous 1/75 gradient. When the Hornby Gresleys came out, I thought great, problem solved, a simple brass side job. Imagine my disappointment, having bought one, to discover what a pig in a pope it turned out to be. Eventually I decided to experimentally rebuild my unwanted purchase. It turned out to have quite a silver lining as it was virtually indistinguishable from the MJT builds but had a number of advantages. These were in no particular order, a considerable saving in weight, Quicker to build and cheaper to purchase in the first place. In addition, I had established a standard way of doing things so that all my Gresley used an identical set of components and looked like the product of one companies workshops, rather than a hotch potch of different models purporting to be the same type of carriage.

 

I use the MJT Floorpan and inner ends, the underfame components ( the Hornby components such as battery boxes are dimensionally wrong) and some small white metal components such as roof and door ventilators. From the Hornby I use the ends and roof as one unit, the interior, often remodeled, the bogies and the underfame trussing. The latter is remodeled as Hornby cocked up the dimensions here, a bit of brass angle widens out the distance between the queen posts and two cross trusses are soldered to the top of it  to join the narrowed dimensions between the sole bars. This makes the whole thing nice and solid. I reuse some items such as the vac brake cylinder and the extended buffers on the end of brake carriages but some components such as the gangway is so dimensionally hopeless that they are better chucked in the bin. The sides come from almost any manufacturer depending on the diag required, though MJT are the best IMO. Hopefully this little lot will post and will be of some interest to yourself.

 

Very interesting thank you, and no need for apologies - thank you for taking the time to run through. It's interesting that you have used plastic coaches as a donor - I've seen it mentioned of course. I think I had also come to the conclusion that the Comet parts weren't what I want to build - but as I am doing the GE section I am quite limited with regards to choice as I need the gangwayed stock on the 51' underframe. RDEB does a few, as does Worsley.

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2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Very interesting thank you, and no need for apologies - thank you for taking the time to run through. It's interesting that you have used plastic coaches as a donor - I've seen it mentioned of course. I think I had also come to the conclusion that the Comet parts weren't what I want to build - but as I am doing the GE section I am quite limited with regards to choice as I need the gangwayed stock on the 51' underframe. RDEB does a few, as does Worsley.

 

Afternoon Rich,

 

I will use anything that gets the effect I want. For example, the Hornby 8'6'' standard bogie is a superb representation of the prototype, I would be foolish to use anything else, especially if it costs more money for a clunkier finish. If I require an 8'6'' heavy duty bogie, or a fox or other Gresley 8' types, then out comes a kit.

 

I wouldn't build complete Comet kits for Gresley carriages, there are better options for many of the parts but I don't have a problem with using their sides. I have only built one RDEB carriage, I found the beading very clunky. Worsley works look pretty good but I haven't built anything of theirs myself. The crucial thing with getting Gresley carriages to look right is getting the end and roof profiles right, and watch out for manufactures who make a hash of the vertical window and lower panel dimensions, Get a good drawing and shop around as many manufactures don't bother with proper drawings. This is why my preferred way of working is to mix and match from various sources to get things looking right. MJT do a 51' underframe that includes the false ends that are to the correct end profile, stick some Hornby bogies under it, source some sides, MJT roof and cosmetic ends and your are well on your way.

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