Wright writes.....

[grahame]

3 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

Without doubt this is an exquisite model, Tony, but something just didn’t seem right as I was perusing your most excellent photographs.  Then I realised that they were completely devoid of people... not one human figure is visible anywhere!  Maybe there should be some post-apocalyptic tumbleweed blowing across the sidings instead?

 

Seriously though, I accept that the model was probably unfinished when these pictures were taken, but it serves to show that there is usually something still that can be done, even with the very best modelling!

 

Yes, there doesn't appear to be any drivers in the locomotive cabs or road vehicles. Unless it's my eyes.

 

G

[Dave Hunt]

If I may add my two pennorth to the discussion on the present and future state of railway modelling, I think that Tony is largely right in what he states whilst others also make valid points. As well as personally being in the pre-grouping camp (although that in no way diminishes my admiration for layouts and models of other eras) I am or have been involved with other modelling disciplines and I think that there are parallels to this hobby in aeromodelling, model boats, military modelling etc. Whilst many modellers wish to portray what they see before them today, a good number of the older generation are more taken with what they remember from their youth. Then there are those who depict scenes from bygone days that they have never seen but which hold a fascination for them. I suspect that the second category are in the majority, although I have to admit that I have no direct evidence of that other than what I see and hear at exhibitions, on RMW, in conversation with friends etc. but that the other types are also well represented. What has and most obviously is changing, though, is what Tony often discusses and that is the decline in the number of those who actually make things rather than depending mainly or wholly on RTR, which again has parallels in other modelling disciplines. I suppose that the bottom line to these ramblings of mine is that yes, the hobby is changing, and in the eyes of those of us who derive most pleasure from the 'modelling' aspect not necessarily for the better, but as an activity is reasonably healthy in the number of participants. Even old dinosaurs like me who like to scratchbuild models of more than a century ago can still enjoy the hobby and I think (hope?) that we will continue to do so in the company of those who also enjoy it, albeit with different emphases. 

 

I hope that that some of the above makes sense. If not, please put it down to the ramblings of the aged.

 

Dave

[4630]

Unless it’s my eyes, lamps are missing from the locomotives too.

 

[t-b-g]

The whole business model of manufacturing has changed in line with modern practice.

 

The days of a model being produced for many years, staying in he catalogue for decades and being held in stock by many model shops ended some time ago. Now it is a case of producing a batch that is big enough to turn in a profit but small enough to sell out quickly. Models sitting unsold on a shelf are not giving the instant profit that everybody wants and needs.

 

So it is not surprising that they sometimes sell out fast as they may be produced in tiny numbers, sometimes in the hundreds rather than the thousands.

 

Going back to the 1960s, firms brought out perhaps one new loco a year. Just look at reviews on old magazines. hat model would still be around 10, 15 or more years later. Now, every month has page after page of reviews of new products. Often these are sold out before the review appears! So things have changed on that side of he hobby.

 

I had just spent a couple of weekends at shows, EXPO EM and Railex. The average age of people at both shows was high. However there were some youngsters there with families. I had one 5 year old operating Leighton Buzzard for a while. There were also a decent number of people who were telling me that they were either coming to the hobby for the first time, or returning after a long gap.These good people were in their 60s and 70s.

 

So there is some new blood coming into the hobby, even if it is old new blood!

 

As for Black Lion Crossing, it does seem that here was a problem with he photos in MRJ and that the colours were wrong. For some reason it does seem to be difficult to photograph and capture those subtle colours. I would suggest that in one or two of yours, the grass is a bit more garish than it is in real life. At least you have the roads grey, rather than the off white they were in MRJ.

 

Geoff has always preferred layouts without figures as he doesn't like he idea that the trains move but he figures don't. I don't like too many around and I like them to be either sitting, or standing around rather than being in frozen poses but I can't help but think that at the very least, the locos should have a crew in them. High Dyke and Dunwich were the same.

 

  

[t-b-g]

6 minutes ago, 4630 said:

Unless it’s my eyes, lamps are missing from the locomotives too.

 

 

I will have words with Geoff about that one when I see him! The layout is due out at Wells show this August so people will be able to see it for themselves there. It is worth seeing!

[Tony Wright]

5 minutes ago, 4630 said:

Unless it’s my eyes, lamps are missing from the locomotives too.

 

It's not your eyes, nor anybody else's eyes. They're not there!

 

Nor are there figures, either in the scene or in the cabs of the locos (as others have observed).

 

I've pointed out these things to Geoff (with huge delight, because, even though it's only OO in comparison to Black Lion's EM status, no train runs on LB without lamps or there being a crew present), and, in his defence, it is still 'work in progress'. 

 

If nothing else, it all goes to show how 'realism' can be improved with just a few detail additions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The whole business model of manufacturing has changed in line with modern practice.

 

The days of a model being produced for many years, staying in he catalogue for decades and being held in stock by many model shops ended some time ago. Now it is a case of producing a batch that is big enough to turn in a profit but small enough to sell out quickly. Models sitting unsold on a shelf are not giving the instant profit that everybody wants and needs.

 

So it is not surprising that they sometimes sell out fast as they may be produced in tiny numbers, sometimes in the hundreds rather than the thousands.

 

Going back to the 1960s, firms brought out perhaps one new loco a year. Just look at reviews on old magazines. hat model would still be around 10, 15 or more years later. Now, every month has page after page of reviews of new products. Often these are sold out before the review appears! So things have changed on that side of he hobby.

 

I had just spent a couple of weekends at shows, EXPO EM and Railex. The average age of people at both shows was high. However there were some youngsters there with families. I had one 5 year old operating Leighton Buzzard for a while. There were also a decent number of people who were telling me that they were either coming to the hobby for the first time, or returning after a long gap.These good people were in their 60s and 70s.

 

So there is some new blood coming into the hobby, even if it is old new blood!

 

As for Black Lion Crossing, it does seem that here was a problem with he photos in MRJ and that the colours were wrong. For some reason it does seem to be difficult to photograph and capture those subtle colours. I would suggest that in one or two of yours, the grass is a bit more garish than it is in real life. At least you have the roads grey, rather than the off white they were in MRJ.

 

Geoff has always preferred layouts without figures as he doesn't like he idea that the trains move but he figures don't. I don't like too many around and I like them to be either sitting, or standing around rather than being in frozen poses but I can't help but think that at the very least, the locos should have a crew in them. High Dyke and Dunwich were the same.

 

  

Thanks Tony,

 

I did think about altering the colour of the grass, but left it as the camera interpreted it. I actually don't think it's that far off, though I take your point.

 

I also take your point about new 'old' blood. My experiences (at over 25 shows a year now as a demonstrator) bears out your observation exactly. I call these 'returnees' to the hobby. Those who saw steam first-hand as boys before 'life' got in the way. Now, in late middle-age (though a generalisation) they're retired, they own their own homes, their children have 'left the nest' (or that's not always the case!) and they (theoretically?) are time, space and cash 'rich'. The problem is, in many cases, they're skill 'poor'. I've mentioned this on many occasions, but I'm always asked at shows 'How much is that, please?' as those of more mature years point at a loco I've made (which is never RTR). Very often these are Thompson Pacifics, and the questioner wants a model of one (or two) because he (it's always male in these cases) wants to try and recreate what he saw in his youth. 'I've got Hornby's A3s and A4s, and Bachmann's A1s and A2s, but nobody makes these'. I've built four Thompson A2/2s in the last two years, just for that reason, and a couple of A2/3s. 

 

I suppose the big question is 'how long are these 'newcomers' going to last?' Let's hope for many years yet!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

57 minutes ago, grahame said:

Hmmm, you're sounding a little despondent there, Tony, about the future of railway modelling. It maybe that the spread and future broadens to encompass less steam era subjects but is that really such a bad thing if railway modelling continues? And who knows, maybe steam outline modelling wont fade away but other genres will take off and increase the overall pie size. There's much more awareness now about the hobby with TV programs, the recent sad vandalism news, celebrities championing it and exhibitions like DEMU's ShowCase. As Clive says, some of the doom and gloom is probably a little premature. 

 

G

Me, despondent, Grahame?

 

Though naturally lugubrious, I'm actually quite upbeat at the moment. 

 

As I said in a previous post, how the hobby continues (and survives?) really won't affect me with regard to how I continue in it from my personal modelling perspective. A bit of 'I'm all right, Jack', I admit. 

 

Returning from Edinburgh yesterday (having watched our younger son and his mate complete the city's marathon on Sunday - well done to all the gasping runners!) I watched a sleek new train overtake us near Cockburnspath, and became more enthused about what I was coming home to finish building. Not some flash electric (despite its looking very impressive), but a DJH 'Princess Coronation', another DJH A1 and a Gibson 517 Class. 

 

Building things, whether they be ancient, from the recent past or right up-to-date, that should be the real future of the hobby in my opinion. Just as those who post on here do!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[grahame]

28 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

As for Black Lion Crossing, it does seem that here was a problem with he photos in MRJ and that the colours were wrong. For some reason it does seem to be difficult to photograph and capture those subtle colours. I would suggest that in one or two of yours, the grass is a bit more garish than it is in real life. At least you have the roads grey, rather than the off white they were in MRJ.

  

 

I got the impression the colour saturation issue was at least partly a result of the printing of MRJ. In the same issue the roads in the pics of the 'Station Road, Faringdon' article also appeared similarly off-white. And, yes, the grass on BLC (in Tony's pics here on RMW) also does seem a little bright and vivid but then a lot of that may be a result of the device type screen it is viewed on. On my tablet it seemed almost neon yet on my laptop the colour was more muted and more natural. I must make some adjustments.

 

G

[Barry Ten]

I hope an update on my Bird class will be of interest to some.

 

 

I do need to improve my riveting technique, as this picture rather cruelly illustrates. I hope it'll all be satisfactory once painted and lightly weathered, though.

 

Dave Stone and I had a very enjoyable weekend at RailEx and were delighted when Dave's layout won best in show. Dave is a bit older than me but we're both

in our fifties, and neither of us (as far as I'm aware) has any direct memory of steam.

 

Dave's layout, set in 1904, went down well with many younger visitors and I've enjoyed learning a bit more about the Edwardian-era GWR from handling Dave's exquisite

models and listening to conversations with knowledgeable types about such learned matters as whether tank top fillers should be painted green on a round-top firebox

Dean Goods and so on.

 

I do have a great deal of confidence about the longevity of the hobby, possibly in slightly more "niche" form, for years to come. I think if railway modelling could weather

the millennium, which it did, then it should be good for a few more decades.

 

Al

[Atso]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

I'm in that boat. Dabbled in my teens, back to it now in my 40s attempting to model 1939 LNER. Attempting as time available still isn't enough lol

 

I'm in that boat as well - although it is still a couple of years until I hit 40!

 

My own interest is the 1934-39 LNER period; despite the LNER having been dissolved some 33 years before I was born. I'm fascinated by  the fact that locomotives and stock built in the 1890's (or earlier) could be seen operating next to the (at the time) latest innovations in design. Rather than a sleek, uniform look to formations, it is the variety of heights, lengths, roof profiles of stock and locomotives that appeals to me.

 

The down side of choosing this period is that, being an N gauge modeller, most of the locomotives and stock required to present a decent representation will need to be designed and built by myself. While the RTR manufacturers might make my life easier by releasing more items that are appropriate, given the smaller size of the N gauge market, I'm not getting my hopes up - nor am I criticising any manufacturers as they are only displaying good business sense.

 

Is the market declining as older modellers pass away? I'm so not sure. However, I do believe that, as the demographic changes, the market interests will naturally shift. All products have a lifespan and it will be up to the manufacturers (and clubs, exhibitions, magazines) to adapt and encourage new blood into the hobby. Personally, I believe that the biggest future challenges to the current market will be space and money. My generation is expected to be poorer than the previous one and fewer people seem to be able to afford their own homes (which seem to be constantly getting smaller). Maybe the future will be the further development of the train simulators. Why build a space consuming layout of a small section of a railway when you can have drive the entire network (and change periods at the click of the mouse) on your computer?

 

However, I do not believe that 'traditional' railway modelling will die out but it may end up being a smaller number of self reliant people. If the market cannot sustain the current RTR manufacturing, maybe we'll see more of a swing back towards the cottage kit market in the future.

[Steamport Southport]

This weekend I attended the Rainhill "Rocket 190" exhibition and was astonished by the amount of young families, women and children present. Absolutely packed for a smallish event, but hardly an "enthusiast" in sight. Many of the exhibitors were young as well.

 

My niece and nephew (10 and 8) disappeared for a bit and came back with some buildings* and buses as they now want to build a layout themselves. So I think the hobby is still attracting youngsters.

 

 

*A scratch built engine shed and goods shed. Obviously ex layout and built to a reasonably high standard. Only a couple of pounds each but with slight issues such as missing windows. So me and my brother are going to help them improve them.

 

 

Jason

[ardbealach]

As a modeller of the same vintage as Tony W - 3 score years + 10 + a few more - my modelling days go back to the 1950's.  Back then in the 1950's, and sixties, I recall many layouts featured in the Railway Modeller being set in the Pre 1923 pregrouping era, or in the pre-WW2 period of the Big Four, reflecting the memories of the modellers of that time.  As has already been said, many layouts of my generation now reflect the memories of our time up to the end of steam and into the green diesel and 1970's BR Blue period.  

 

I am sure that as time goes by, for modellers of the future the halcyon days for them will be Pendolinos and Voyagers and other multiple units, and even Class 66's.  Model railway manufacturers will continue beefitting from their market research as to what is, or what is not, commercially viable.  

 

Finally, I do recall clearly the doom merchants predicting the end of the railway hobby, both full size and in model forms, when steam ended on BR in 1968.  How wrong they were.  (AM)   

[richard i]

I agree with Atso, smaller markets than the uk survive. Less is offered rtr and it is more expensive. However, it is there. 

I also think he is right about train simulators, people are doing the research to get it right which goes with modeling, and the building, if virtually, how soon before the Star Trek railway experience of a holodeck?

i too model long before I was born. Just like the stuff more, though I have a soft spot for the APT as it was cutting edge when I was a nipper.

richard

[St Enodoc]

16 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I can understand why modellers look for different eras and areas to model. Sometimes it is nice to go the opposite direction to the rest of the herd.

 

 

Sometimes the herd catches up with you. In the early 1970s, modelling the BR steam era was quite an unusual choice. Now it's completely mainstream.

[Long John Silver]

I am old enough to remember steam on BR in everyday service, just, but I was very young - I’m 63 now. I did most of my long-distance rail travel, other than commuting, between about 1974 and 1983, so Blue Era diesel period.  As a result, I am drawn to the early 1960s and also the middle 1970s.

I was also lucky enough to go to a grammar school with a great library, which contained a large number of railway books by the likes of Messrs Nock, Hamilton-Ellis and Tuplin. Through spending far too much time reading these, I discovered pre-group railways, and developed a lifelong interest in pre WW1 railways. I’ve never had the skills or patience to dedicate my self to modelling the Edwardian Era, so I settled on South Wales just before nationalisation, GWR and LMS. This enables me to operate some modern locos of types I remember as lad, plus some old pre-group survivors in their final years. Can’t justify the blue diesels though, perhaps one day.

[CF MRC]

The demise of model railways as a hobby has been predicted many times... Trouble is, the hobby doesn’t seem to realise it. 

 

Tim

Edited May 28, 2019 by CF MRC

[mullie]

Like all things society is evolving. I've been involved in community arts as well as education for around 30 years. Lately there has been a decline in the number of adults able/willing to volunteer to help. The consensus seems to be that people are still willing but that many are now looking after grandchildren, collecting them from school etc. so both parents (their children) can work because of the long term stagnation of wages ( now apparently changing though the public sector will never catch up) and the increasing cost of things such as housing. This puts time pressure on those who might otherwise take up our hobby in a more developed way.

 

The hobby will survive but will change as it always has done, many have predicted its demise but we are all still here. I have gone from someone using rtr exclusively although I have always scratch built structures, to someone modelling in finer scale and enjoying building things but not all will want to do that, we are a broad church and can and should accommodate and encourage all comers who may become the kit builders of the future at whatever age.

 

Clubs have had to change. I briefly belonged to a club in my teenage years before exams took over but the rules around DBS checks are so tight that it is difficult for clubs to accommodate young people unless a parent is willing to come with them. Some clubs have thriving junior sections but how many, I honestly don't know? What can we learn from those who have successful youth sections?

 

Like many on here I model periods I don't remember, in my case mainly post war East Anglia late 40s early 50s, though I do have an interest in the late 70s and 80s blue period when I did most of my railway travelling. Increasingly I am also interested in the southern lines out of Waterloo around 1967, the last because of where I now live and research work I've been involved in connected with the railways of the Weymouth area.

 

Martyn

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, CF MRC said:

The demise of model railways as a hobby has been predicted many times... Trouble is, the hobby doesn’t seem to realise it. 

 

Tim

Quite so, Tim,

 

But, has the average age-profile of the participants ever been as high?

 

I've written the 'Tail Lamp' piece in the current BRM, and I mention such things. As an example, throughout Wolverhampton MRC's 46 year existence I've always been around the average age of the membership. I still am! The end result, along with other factors, of course, is that it's unlikely that the club will continue beyond the next 18 months. Yes, only one club as an example (not very scientific, I admit), but it is not unique.

 

Though clubs are not the only way to enjoy the hobby, they are central to it in my opinion, at least where most shows are concerned. 

 

Today, I had a granddad and his 11 year old grandson visit. We had a great time, particularly the youngster, and he very quickly mastered LB's controls (I might need to borrow him!). He's as keen as mustard, but is the only one among his classmates who's interested in railways. Fortunately, he's not 'mocked' by them, but his interest is unique. 

 

The actual highlight of the day? We went up to our best local railway viewpoint, alongside the school at the north end of the village where a grand vantage point of the ECML is afforded. The lad's day was made when a brand new 'Azuma' went past. He took a video of it on his phone, and kept on playing it back to himself, such was his joy. I was reminded of my seeing my first A4 (at a bit younger age than Max), when I felt the same excitement and jumped for joy. Perhaps nothing really changes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[rowanj]

While there is nothing remotely wrong with being in a caravan in Provence for 3 months, it does mean, as Mrs Rowanj does not approve of me soldering or even glueing, my modelling is confined to the brain. On that basis, I wondered if anyone had attempted , and preferably succeeded, in fitting any of the latest Hornby cam motors to Highlevel or alternative gearboxes. I have a few motors from failed chassis, including a couple of A4's. Anyone tried it?  I'm aware the worm would need removing, but I don't recall whether there are screw holes in the motors...

 

 

[johndon]

My 10 year old grand daughter is fascinated with grandad's model trains and comes along every Thursday night when I go to work on the layout.  She's been able to use the DCC controller since she was 5 and is more than happy to stop off at Tyne Yard to see what is there and what is going past on the ECML or to come along to local shows, she even did York show with me a couple of year ago.

 

 

5 years ago I never thought that the interest would last but here she is last week:

 

 

She is also absolutely determined that she will get to drive the first train on the new layout.  Whether the interest will last much longer remains to be seen but I'm enjoying it while it lasts...

 

John

 

[Tony Wright]

26 minutes ago, rowanj said:

While there is nothing remotely wrong with being in a caravan in Provence for 3 months, it does mean, as Mrs Rowanj does not approve of me soldering or even glueing, my modelling is confined to the brain. On that basis, I wondered if anyone had attempted , and preferably succeeded, in fitting any of the latest Hornby cam motors to Highlevel or alternative gearboxes. I have a few motors from failed chassis, including a couple of A4's. Anyone tried it?  I'm aware the worm would need removing, but I don't recall whether there are screw holes in the motors...

 

 

How have the Hornby A4 chassis failed, John? 

 

In my experience with these, it's either the gears which have split or the motor itself has failed.

 

The motor is held in place by a collar arrangement at the rear, fixed around the rear bearing and screwed into the chassis block. As far as I know, there are no screws in the motor itself. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Andy Hayter]

42 minutes ago, mullie said:

 

Like many on here I model periods I don't remember, 

 

Martyn

 

 

Tony and many other here are hooked on we model what we remember from our pre-teen/teen years.   As I have pointed out before the irregular analysis of how old we are and what we model shows that at least 50% of us do not model what we remember from that time.   That does not discount the fact that the largest single group of modellers will be those who do model according to that meme.  However if we concentrate solely and exclusively on that meme we come to wrong conclusions.

1.  End of steam as a modelling era is about to end because we are all going to die - over time of course.

2.  Blue diesel is suddenly going to be the next best thing (nothing against the era, but it is relatively short in timespan and will be disadvantaged by that if not by other prejudices.)

3.  Todays railways will only be popular in 20-30 years time.  If you need proof of the dangers of the meme then this is the real one to go for since pendalinos and all other modern stock have been commercial catastrophes for our manufacturers according to the meme whereas they have certainly not been.

4.  No  one models pre-ww2 grouping or pre-grouping - and yet those idiots in Dapmanby keep issuing LNER/LMS/SR/GWR models.  No wonder there are financial concerns in the hobby.  

5.  How many of the kits available from the major kit producers (rather than the specialist firms who tailor for specific needs) produce kits that are outside of the 60s/70s period that the meme would suggest is the prime period?  

 

I am of course drawing extremes from the meme.  I hope however that we can see that it is an over-simplification of what is happening in the model railway world than simply saying that we model what we remember from our youth.

 

In that respect I have sympathy with Clive's question of whether rtr manufacturers are really missing the boat by not issuing 1950/60 liveries with haste.  Yes, as Tony states, if a modeller of that era dies, then that is a sale potentially lost.  However that ignores new modellers coming in, some of whom will chose this period even though it is not the period that fits the model of what we remember from our youth.  If we are saying that the rate of attrition is greater than the rate of recruitment, then there is a factor of losing sales, but how many overall?  I can believe that the factor is there but I currently struggle to believe that it will make the difference between a successful BR livery or not.  

[CF MRC]

In response to Tony’s and other’s comments, the MRC has a vibrant young MRC (yMRC) section.  Parents and / or grandparents have to bring along the child.  We also have DBS checked members.   Our membership numbers are increasing and I would hazard a guess that the age profile is also reducing.  

 

All of the publicity that the hobby has attracted over the last year (recently for terrible reasons) has had a very beneficial effect and I am very keen to promote the hobby: it’s not difficult. 

 

Tim

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by CF MRC

[Willie Whizz]

10 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

...

 

What has and most obviously is changing, though, is what Tony often discusses and that is the decline in the number of those who actually make things rather than depending mainly or wholly on RTR, which again has parallels in other modelling disciplines.

...

 

I think you are quite right, but in a relatively narrow sense, if by "things" you mean non-RTR locomotives and rolling stock.

 

Having been a fairly regular attender of model railway exhibitions for 30+ years, I don't believe the average quality and authenticity of scenic work has ever been higher.  This has been helped by a great increase in the quantity and quality of materials now available of course - in contrast to the general decline in kits for locomotives etc.  Yes, there are 'ready to plant' buildings now available, but when I recognise them as such at all they seem to have been much-modified to blend-in well with their location.

 

Maybe this is the distinction:  some of us tend to make model trains, some of us tend to make model railways; and though there are many honourable exceptions high standards in one don't always cross over to the other.