Wright writes.....

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi,

Further to Mick's post I thought it worth mentioning that Chris Gibbon of High Level has sourced two new coreless motors for use with his gear boxes.  They are a 12/19 (£27) and a 13/20 (£29.50) , these have 8.5mm mounting centres and a 1.5mm drive shaft.  The 13/20  has enough power for the largest of 4mm locomotive, and the 12/19 is also a very powerful unit.  Coupled with Chris's gear boxes these are now my first choice drive units for the loco's I'm building for Clayton, unless I have a  suitable 2nd hand (quiet) Portescap unit available.

 

 

I've been on to the High Level site this morning and according to the information some of Chris's gear boxes still utilise final drive gears without grub screws.  Like Tony, unless you are an experienced modeller, I would avoid using these, but there are plenty of alternate configurations available where the final drive gear has a screw to hold it on the axle.   I can't imagine a scenario where one of these motor/gearbox combinations can't be completely hidden within the boiler and firebox of a model without protruding into the cab or being visible under the boiler.

 

Frank  

 

A while back Chris told me all the gearboxes were grub screw fit - he just hadn't had a chance to update the website. I believe the ratios changed slightly as a result of the redesign so if the ratio you want is critical I would suggest you check with Chris before ordering.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Bucoops
Ratios not rations!

[Barry O]

A friend gets items posted to me. I pack them into a box with several items then post them on. Delivery to Oz is fairly quick at the moment..

 

Baz

[2750Papyrus]

I have been pondering the earlier discussion regarding the language and the accents of television presenters.  I am of the same vintage as Tony and get in trouble from my other half for shouting at the television!

 

When I was growing up, “BBC English” was universal and I can remember broadcasts by the likes of John Snagg and Alvar Lidell, so researched both on the web.  Apparently Lidell wrote an article for The Listener in 1977 criticising the pronunciation of then-current BBC presenters, prompting an enquiry by the BBC! 

 

It would seem that there exists a tradition of mature listeners querying the language and delivery of younger presenters.

[Tony Teague]

38 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

It would seem that there exists a tradition of mature listeners querying the language and delivery of younger presenters.

 

I get the point that langauge evolves over time, but I feel that with the advent of radio and then TV there has been both an opportunity to at least maintain some kind of standard, or equally a risk of accelerating a decline.

To me it seems that the latter course has been taken, perhaps in the name of wider inclusivity, but the result is a significant decline and the normalisation of some kind of street banter.

 

[James Fitzjames]

50 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I get the point that langauge evolves over time, but I feel that with the advent of radio and then TV there has been both an opportunity to at least maintain some kind of standard, or equally a risk of accelerating a decline.

To me it seems that the latter course has been taken, perhaps in the name of wider inclusivity, but the result is a significant decline and the normalisation of some kind of street banter.

 

Probably also an increasing desperation to be 'relevant' to young people, who don't follow the 'watching telly' habits of their elders. I can honestly say that, of those under-25s I know, not one of them has a conventional televisual setup, and wouldn't thank you for one. Personally, I think the television channels are fighting a losing battle anyway, so would be as well setting some kind of linguistic example for the remainder of their existence

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi,

Further to Mick's post I thought it worth mentioning that Chris Gibbon of High Level has sourced two new coreless motors for use with his gear boxes.  They are a 12/19 (£27) and a 13/20 (£29.50) , these have 8.5mm mounting centres and a 1.5mm drive shaft.  The 13/20  has enough power for the largest of 4mm locomotive, and the 12/19 is also a very powerful unit.  Coupled with Chris's gear boxes these are now my first choice drive units for the loco's I'm building for Clayton, unless I have a  suitable 2nd hand (quiet) Portescap unit available.

 

 

I've been on to the High Level site this morning and according to the information some of Chris's gear boxes still utilise final drive gears without grub screws.  Like Tony, unless you are an experienced modeller, I would avoid using these, but there are plenty of alternate configurations available where the final drive gear has a screw to hold it on the axle.   I can't imagine a scenario where one of these motor/gearbox combinations can't be completely hidden within the boiler and firebox of a model without protruding into the cab or being visible under the boiler.

 

Frank  

 

 

 

     

 

    

Thanks Frank,

 

With the motors at the price you quote, what does a High-Level gearbox cost, please? I suppose I could look it up myself, but the interweb is still a mystery. 

 

Despite their being 'easy' to assemble, I have come across some examples where a complete mess has been made, effectively rendering the drive useless. This is not the fault of the product, but that of the guy/girl who's tried to put it together and didn't have the necessary skills. 

 

Like you, I find High-Level 'boxes easy to assemble, but despite a chorus from others effectively implying that 'anyone' can make them, I've not found that to be the universal case (though I've seen far more 'mangled' Comet 'boxes and Branchlines' 'boxes than any from Chris). 

 

Though I accept the fact that the DJH 'boxes are bulky, they do represent a way forward for those who struggle to make a super-sweet drive. Granted, if someone can't build a gearbox properly then they'll probably be defeated in trying to make a chassis. That said, unless the 'prime mover' is spot on at source, then they'll struggle anyway. 

 

Of course I can build a gearbox properly, so why should I spend money on something I can make myself? The answer is two-part. One, it saves me time and two; I have a wonderfully-sweet drive at source, with no mucking about.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

High Level here , just click on the link.

 

http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxmainpage.html

 

 

I dont think anyone has ever said on here or anywhere else that I have read " anyone can build a High Level Box" or ever implied as such.

 

Anyone who is competent enough to build a working loco kit, can easily build a HL Box . The first one I built, after taking care and following the instructions, was built without any problems at all. I now build them in under 30 minutes and save about 50% of the price DJH are trying to get for their boxes.

Edited September 4, 2020 by micklner

[Lecorbusier]

54 minutes ago, James Fitzjames said:

Probably also an increasing desperation to be 'relevant' to young people, who don't follow the 'watching telly' habits of their elders. I can honestly say that, of those under-25s I know, not one of them has a conventional televisual setup, and wouldn't thank you for one. Personally, I think the television channels are fighting a losing battle anyway, so would be as well setting some kind of linguistic example for the remainder of their existence

That depends on what you think telly is for ... education or entertainment. Initially it very much served as education and betterment with an emphasis placed upon such things. I would suggest that since the 1980s there has been an increasing emphasis on entertainment and ratings and a systematic dumbing down and cutting of non profitmaking elements ... coupled with this has been the consistant rise of commercial competitors to the BBC. A perfect storm if you like.

 

I am not one who subscribes to the necessity for conformity and linguistic correctness outside the classroom ( the 19th century (I think) French rigidity in the rules and purity of their language is seen by many academics as having been a limitation). As the standards and norms change in society as a whole, it is unsurprising that this is reflected in the present offerings of the media.

 

Would I like the BBC to return to its former remit ... ?

[Chuffer Davies]

37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With the motors at the price you quote, what does a High-Level gearbox cost, please? I suppose I could look it up myself, but the interweb is still a mystery. 

 

 

Hi Tony,

Gear boxes are in the £14 to £18 range.  If you need an additional extender then that's a further £5 - £6.  So for a motor/gearbox assembly the cost ranges from £45 - £53.50  .  

 

I would potentially use a DJH solution if I was building large locomotives, for the reasons you have previously suggested, but the locomotives that ran on Clayton were much more modest.  I would rather use a High Level solution to fully hide the drive system rather than use a DJH pre-assembled unit which protrudes into the cab or can be seen under the boiler, and save some myself £25 in doing so.  My Yorkshire surroundings must be rubbing off on me at last.....

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

    

[mullie]

Night mail by Benjamin Britten

 

or Pacific 231 by Honneger?

 

Martyn

[Theakerr]

I have found that shipping costs from the UK are not standard at all.   As a result I now try to contact a seller and ask the shipping costs.  In many cases they come back with a reasonable cost.  In the case of the DJH gearbox I did not do that because I wanted their gearbox and motor for the current project knowing that it is an excellent unit and knowing that they had a suitable motor for it.  I have used a High Level gearbox for one build and was very happy with it so it is good to know that they now have an alternate motor.   Might even have a look and save the DJH for a planned project later this year. 

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Lecorbusier said:

 

 

I am not one who subscribes to the necessity for conformity and linguistic correctness outside the classroom ( the 19th century (I think) French rigidity in the rules and purity of their language is seen by many academics as having been a limitation). As the standards and norms change in society as a whole, it is unsurprising that this is reflected in the present offerings of the media.

 

 

Indeed l'Académie française is the guardian of all things French.  Established in the 17th century they have among others maintained the purity of the French language.   It results in (to me at least) some rather strange results as I am sat at my ordinateur (filing system) when computer had a perfectly good French root  - compter, to count.  However their insistence on sending courriels instead of emails has been almost universally ignored.  It will be interesting (and perhaps distressing for an older generation) to see how they react to a fast moving realignment of language. 

 

At least they have avoided the anglicisation that I have seen in the German language with a whole host of words arriving such as updaten - to update, which replaces aktualisieren.  When it first appeared I had great fun with colleagues teasing whether the past participle was upgedated or geupdated.  

[robmcg]

On 03/09/2020 at 20:57, Tony Wright said:

 

 

...

 

here's the dilemma - what might it be worth now? The new motor/gearbox is well in excess of half a hundred pounds, so it's probably worth more that the whole loco itself! It now runs really sweetly (despite the K's wheels), and it is rather quaint.

 

 

Note the 'natural' weathering............

 

The ghastly pony wheels will be replaced. 

 

And, here's another reason for the dilemma............

 

 

Bachmann's RTR equivalent. Does anyone know what one of these costs? 

 

 

 

DCC-ready as well. What price the poor old K's thing now? 

 

 

 

Dear Tony,

 

As a result of your interest in models such as these I hold you personally responsible for my re-awakened interest in old branchline workings.

 

As a young teenager my most treasured books were 'Branch Line Album' Vol.1 and 2 by P B Whitehouse, hardcover b+w as all good books should be, and which by some miracle I still own, along with 'The Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain' 1958 edition, by H C Casserley.

 

The smell and feel of such treasures means that the Ivatt 2MT will need to be hunted down, in Bachmann form, and suitable photos taken, that I might re-live the pleasures of those days, Kitmaster, Hornby Dublo, and other things.

 

The DJH 2MT will I hope find a good home.  Makes a change from large express engines, certainly!

 

Best wishes and thanks for this thread.

 

Edit; oh, the Bachmann split chassis s/h 2MTs are about UKP40-80 the later 31-440 and 31-441DC versions are UKP80 up , at a quick glance.

 

Here is an Ebay sample.... UKP80

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by robmcg
addition

[APOLLO]

Well I'd rather have a tatty loco that runs superbly than a superb loco that runs badly. I have a few of both - the bad uns stand at the back or inside the loco shed "awaiting attention" !!

 

My tattyist  superb runner is a 2 rail Hornby Dublo "City of London" from the early 60's. They don't make em like that anymore.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Anyone who is competent enough to build a working loco kit, can easily build a HL Box.

 

Exactly!

 

...... and there's no 'mucking about' - I would hate to see a loco built by someone who can't assemble a High Level gearbox.

 

If one can tolerate gearboxes below boilers and where the firehole door should be, it astonishes me that loco lamps and crew loom so large in one's priorities.

 

However, as is often said here - each to their own!

 

Tony has, after all, built up a very good relationship with DJH over the years, and it's not surprising that he is loyal to their products.

 

John Isherwood.

[Buhar]

3 hours ago, mullie said:

Pacific 231 by Honneger?

 

Martyn

Musical tautology?  Aren't all Pacifics 2-3-1.

Alan

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

High Level here , just click on the link.

 

http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxmainpage.html

 

 

I dont think anyone has ever said on here or anywhere else that I have read " anyone can build a High Level Box" or ever implied as such.

 

Anyone who is competent enough to build a working loco kit, can easily build a HL Box . The first one I built, after taking care and following the instructions, was built without any problems at all. I now build them in under 30 minutes and save about 50% of the price DJH are trying to get for their boxes.

If a HL 'box needs an 'extender', I don't think the saving would be 50%, Mick. 

 

In fact 50% might be the very best achievable, if that.

 

That said, I accept your conclusions. However, the skill factor is still necessary in building any piece of precision equipment (you have it, of course, but it's not universal). Not all who attempt loco kits have that skill and one of the most difficult problems for beginners (and even the more experienced) is getting a silky-smooth, quiet, powerful and free-running prime mover (which DJH motor/gearbox combos give automatically). 

 

I've seen many quite well-built locos which visually run just fine, but sound like a miniature chain saw. 

 

I accept again that the DJH 'boxes are more suitable for larger locos because they're difficult to hide in smaller ones. However, they are beautiful runners, and, to some, for that they'll pay. You don't need to pay 'top dollar'; you can make your own. Not all can.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bucoops]

Well the panels on this body passed having the tumblehomes formed - different sides to the ones I posted previously as I've still not opened out the hinge holes - this one the holes have actually etched properly.

 

So far everything on the body has been soldered with the RSU. However I did a bit of spark erosion when I tried to seam the ends to the sides so I'll fire up the iron for at least those!

 

 

This one is to be a D154 52'6" GE Section full brake.

[APOLLO]

13 minutes ago, Buhar said:

Musical tautology?  Aren't all Pacifics 2-3-1.

Alan

 

Bulleid's Southern Pacifics were 21C . (two at the front, one at the back and three in the middle driven (C).

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Tony,

Gear boxes are in the £14 to £18 range.  If you need an additional extender then that's a further £5 - £6.  So for a motor/gearbox assembly the cost ranges from £45 - £53.50  .  

 

I would potentially use a DJH solution if I was building large locomotives, for the reasons you have previously suggested, but the locomotives that ran on Clayton were much more modest.  I would rather use a High Level solution to fully hide the drive system rather than use a DJH pre-assembled unit which protrudes into the cab or can be seen under the boiler, and save some myself £25 in doing so.  My Yorkshire surroundings must be rubbing off on me at last.....

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

    

Many thanks Frank,

 

£45.00 to £53.50? Even at the lower price, to get a saving of 50% (as claimed elsewhere) over DJH 'boxes would mean that the Consett-produced ones would have to be £90.00, which they're certainly not (though I believe some Portescaps go for that, and more!). 

 

It comes down, as always, to personal choice. The HL 'boxes are superb, can be made with relative ease and will fit (invisibly) in even the smallest prototype equivalents. They're also cheaper than the DJH 'boxes. But, and this is what still might stump some, they have to be assembled. And, I'm told that not everyone can.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, mullie said:

Night mail by Benjamin Britten

 

or Pacific 231 by Honneger?

 

Martyn

Magnificent!

 

Many thanks............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Willie Whizz]

On 03/09/2020 at 10:28, Clive Mortimore said:

What is wrong with a pint of Charlie Wells Bombardier?

 

Not a thing.  Perfectly acceptable.  But when it was on as a 'guest beer' in a local hostelry where an old railway enthusiast friend and I met up for a pint a couple of years back, he asked the barmaid for two pints of it - not pronounced like the English artilleryman (Bom-ba-deer), but the Canadian-owned train and aeroplane builders (Bom-bar-dee-eh).  Got us some very funny looks around the pub ...!

[Barry Ten]

I don't think you can underestimate the value of a ready-assembled gearbox when you're starting out.

 

This was my first loco kit - started around 2001 if I remember rightly. It was bought as a package including a fold-up single stage gearbox and open-frame motor. I could never get it to run well but there were so many possible variables that I didn't know where to begin. Living in Holland, too, I was limited in who I could turn to for advice. However, when (after about five years of tribulations) I dropped a DJH gearbox into it, it ran perfectly.

 

 

By the way the bodywork is entirely araldited so must be due to fall apart any day soon.

 

I've since built Branchlines and Comet boxes but I must admit that I like the ease of putting in a gearbox that's already assembled

and proven to be reliable. I look forward to trying a High Level box one of these days,

 

Al

 

 

[Tony Wright]

42 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Exactly!

 

...... and there's no 'mucking about' - I would hate to see a loco built by someone who can't assemble a High Level gearbox.

 

If one can tolerate gearboxes below boilers and where the firehole door should be, it astonishes me that loco lamps and crew loom so large in one's priorities.

 

However, as is often said here - each to their own!

 

Tony has, after all, built up a very good relationship with DJH over the years, and it's not surprising that he is loyal to their products.

 

John Isherwood.

I'm 'loyal' to DJH's products, John, for a very good reason; that being, I've found them to be consistently excellent. And, you're right, I have built up a good relationship with the firm, though I have no 'commercial' connection with it. I'm a happy customer, just like everyone else. 

 

And, if one cannot 'tolerate gearboxes below boilers and where the firehole door should be', it astonishes me that there's a 'blindness' towards a lack of loco lamps and crews. 

 

Each to their own, of course. 

 

As for 'mucking about', you might not have seen as many locos built by others as I have (though I don't know). I can tell you; many have been 'mucked about' with! Too many............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Lecorbusier]

What a strange Gearbox discussion we are all having?

 

From what I can gather the DJH offering is very good and simple to install .... tick. A little on the large side so perhaps only suitabe for larger locomotives? Some say pricey. Perhaps more robust than the High Level?

 

High Level Gearboxes are very good and have a significant range of combinations and can be configured to suit pretty much all applications. They take a touch more skill to put together (though perhaps not if you buy the DJH box in kit form for the lower price - though can't find this option on their website?) On balance they also appear to be a cheaper option when comparing like for like?

 

So two excellent options .... horses for courses perhaps? ... with a dose of personal preference and wallet size.

 

Voila!

Edited September 5, 2020 by Lecorbusier