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20 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Today has definitely been one of the most productive modelling days I've had in forever. The underframe is almost done on the full brake.

 

I've ben using the Isinglass drawing as the source of info - I've not got any photos of a real one unfortunately. If anything is in the wrong place, please tell me, however I may go "la la la not listening" if it's a major issue!

 

D154-5.jpg.f35903d80c5c67a7a556bdb2fceb66c9.jpg

 

D154-6.jpg.df4c13d4da40a86de7ec8108d93aee73.jpg

 

D154-7.jpg.8f99a8dd6d4bacb00a64d99c00406248.jpg

 

Spotted when taking the last photo - the right hand bogie is wonky. I shall have to investigate!

It looks all right to me, Rich.

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

The re-animation is complete (bar the gimmick of a smoke unit & a Lambton cab).

 

To move it t'ward the fictional, a new name plate would need to be ordered. Perhaps Frank? (I once temporarily named a loco Kevin) Maybe  Wollstonecraft? or possibly one of her better known quotes. "Go forth & prosper" although I admit to preferring the modern adaptation.

 

Probably better to keep it as delivered and keep the original name, "Hazard".  Just as ridiculous but prototypical.

 

Good evening P,

 

I quite like "Hazard", perhaps with some electrical flashes, for slightly more modern adaptation.

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12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

As usual, one of the cabside windows is 'open'. 

 

Were there any occasions when both were shut?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Only maybe when it's pelting rain or snow in on that side of the engine Tony .

Note also on that last photo on Mike Trices' thread .  Note also the little wooden armrest for the driver in the window opening which hinged down to close the window . But then you probably knew that .

 

Regards , Roy .

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8 hours ago, ScRSG said:

A trio of Trice's,

 

1112111589_IMGP1039(2).JPG.242692ce8873b970cbbaeb18b477ed1e.JPGIMGP1055.JPG.cb2f66b5acad4b88f7d9fd18886defc2.JPG512223963_IMGP1072(2).JPG.dcdbead5f61d33226c0bb7239ac7a79b.JPG

 

Three of Mike Trice's most excellent V2 bodies added to Comet chassis and weathered to typical Scottish Region standards of the early 60's.

A couple of comments on the building of these, if I may, firstly , watch the delicate steps! They are extremely fragile (ask me how I know). Secondly, due to the method of detaching the Comet chassis, the first move is to lower the rear end and then move the chassis backwards slightly to release the front. This, unfortunately can put pressure on the front part of the footplate which can cause a fracture (again, ask me how I know!) So to help this I added strips of brass as strengtheners as shown here -

IMGP1067.JPG.8e823b2782fa71f7c5b864b7934557ee.JPG

 

Hope this helps, but they do all make up very nicely.

 

Chas

Beautiful. If you had not mentioned they were my prints I would not have known.

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10 hours ago, drmditch said:

Good Morning. This thread moves so fast that no sooner do I see something to which I could make a contribution then it it has vanished somewhere in the previous decade/century/millennium!

(Sometimes I can make search engines work and sometimes not but i prefer to spend the time on proper engines with actual wheels!)

 

So, to catch up a bit I've prepared some material which I will put into separate posts to avoid making one very long one and to make reference easier!

(Obviously these can be removed if anyone objects to my prolixity!)

 

There was a discussion about LNER large engine cab/tender doors.

Here are some pictures of the V2 arrangement on 4771.

(I am sure that at some point Mr Trice has probably taken better pictures.)

 

Post_door_01.jpg.df01a3e89f8ee2064c00df8d576015f3.jpg

 

 

Post_door_02.jpg.f6ea1995ecf3312a471763fb8152f334.jpg

 

 

Then the nice simple pintle hinges!

First the 'locomotive side':-

 

post_door_03.jpg.e7711ae9a0d14256f768da53ddbd8fd4.jpg

 

Then the 'tender' side:-

 

post_door_04.jpg.9008dcedeafebb3a13f14ade5e682a74.jpg

 

 

At the moment Locomotion is open Wednesday to Sunday, from 11:00am to 4:00pm, and visitors can climb steps to look into the cabs, but are not allowed into the cabs themselves.

(Footplates were not designed for 'social distancing'!)  If you do want to come and visit, then it it is advisable to book a ticket first. These are free of charge, but the ticketing system is sensible not only for traceability, but to allow control of the number of people in the building at one time.

 

Bookings available here

 

I am back to being on-site on Fridays, welcoming people and explaining and discussing where required.

If you do visit on a Friday do say hello!

 

(Remember, unlike our 'big sister' at York, car parking is free!)

 

Caroline Middleditch

 

 

 

 

 

Super photos there Caroline , of cab doors I was trying to describe some pages back when the discussion was on  . I remember them well . Thanks 

 

Regards , Roy .

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7 hours ago, jrg1 said:

Assistance, please.  I have acquired various models form a deceased estate, and this includes the enclosed horsebox, for which there are no instructions or any means of identification.  Can anyone supply details of the vehicle in question, and the model manufacturer, please?

20200912_141552.jpg

Hi John

As others have said this is the Parkside kit and is Dia 5. I actually bought one from the same estate to join one I already had. I finished mine from the estate earlier this year and it actually had a run on Spirsby yesterday! Later today I'll send you instructions and other info I have.

Andrew

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33 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi John

As others have said this is the Parkside kit and is Dia 5. I actually bought one from the same estate to join one I already had. I finished mine from the estate earlier this year and it actually had a run on Spirsby yesterday! Later today I'll send you instructions and other info I have.

Andrew

 

You might also find my version and notes and links helpful........ See here.....

(Although I missed the rainstrips as well!)

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On 11/09/2020 at 09:59, Tony Wright said:

 

1. There's been a diminishing of folk actually making things, particularly locomotives and, to a lesser extent, rolling stock (ironically, Covid might have had the opposite effect, but I can't tell first-hand). This might be because of improved RTR (which, to be fair, is now often better than what many could make for themselves; and, it's usually considerably cheaper). 

As far as locos are concerned I think the improvements in RTR have cut down making it yourself. For my own particular modelling area and timescale I can only think of two regular performers not available RTR or announced by the mainstream sources. Those would be the Johnson 2F and Stanier 3P. Some of the others are a little long in the tooth but mostly not too bad with e bit of embellishment.

Coaching stock has improved a lot but from my point of view there is a big hole with LMS Open stock, which I have built using Comet sides, and Period 1/2 stock some of which was around from 1925 to the mid-1960s. I've also just started on some Gresley Opens for my ER excursions set.

Wagons have also improved a lot, but we still only have a generic 5 plank and tank wagons. Again many are a good basis for a bit of improvement but to get the variety I want I have a lot of kits from Parkside, Cambrian and Chivers amongst others. Some are from now-defunct sources but can be picked up if you look and wait.

 

2. The number of new kits being made available (again, particularly locomotives) has also diminished (cause and effect?). 

I think full loco kits have diminished although I don't usually build complete locos myself, only a bit of alteration to RTR. The range of carriages and wagons that it is possible to build if you are doing about WW2 to 1964 is quite extensive.

I think modern methods such as 3-D printing may change the market with made to order copies of things people have produced for their own modelling.

 

3. Far more layout I see at shows and in the press seem to be much the same; again, with regard to locos and rolling stock. And, in several cases, there's a proliferation of RTP buildings/structures. The corollary of this is the smaller number of scratch-/kit-built items, and this is not just in OO. 

I would agree that what is on display is now quite repetitive. I am not 'turned on' by a layout full of 16T minerals with a 9F and a standard brake van or lots of the same 12T box vans

 

4. The general standard of layouts in general at shows has never been higher in terms of presentation/appearance/lighting. However, I wish I could say the same for the running on some of them. Many of these layouts represent the BR steam/diesel transition period. That's why it's refreshing (at least to me) to see, say, a pre-Grouping depiction where, out of necessity, much more will have been made. More and more layouts are controlled currently by DCC (which doesn't always improve the running!) and many now have (annoying?) sound, often too loud!

Standards of construction have gone up. Maybe this is because improved RTR stock has given more time for the infrastructure. Operationally some excellent looking layouts are abysmal. My particular bugbear used to be badly loaded wagons. I remember one particular layout I have seen at least three times and has featured in the mags which has a conflat loaded with an A type container firmly fixed at one end. To me in instant fail. I enjoy pre-1948 layouts as they need a lot more work both in finding information and building sufficient stock of the right types.

My pet hate is DCC sound fitted TMD layouts with 12 Class 66 all in different liveries which wouldn't be around together in timescale or location. I seems a pre-requisite of these layouts to show how clever you are by setting all of the locos to produce maximum noise at the same time.

Besides that sort of thing why do we have to have lots of DCC train noise and no background sounds? just listen to those great old Transacord discs. Railways in reality have urban or rural background noise, traffic, station staff talking to the crew during a stop, block bells from the signalbox window............

 

5. Though I have no 'hard' evidence (other than talking with the manufacturers) most kits (particularly those for locos) are never finished to complete satisfaction. This is substantiated by the number I've seen bought off eBay (not by me; it's as mysterious as nuclear physics!), where many are just a mess. When I say 'complete satisfaction', I admit, that's subjective, but many I've seen don't run well, are glued together and are painted with tar! 

It took me a long time of fiddling with kit bashing and painting to get to an acceptable level of modelling. Some people just don't have the patience to do it.

When I made the model of my Grandad's Lineman's Cabin which appeared on Black Country Blues it took me a whole day to produce the three window frames to a standard that I thought was needed for a layout under the glare of publicity like that was. There is only one known photo which I took in 1967 and no drawing to work to, so getting it to look right was a long process over about two months.

 

6. There is more of a reluctance now for folk to 'alter' what they've bought (in case it decreases the value?). 'Oh, I've just spent £XXX on that model and by improving/altering/renumbering/renaming/weathering it it'll be devalued. Anyway, if I keep it mint/boxed it'll appeal to collectors'. What has happened to the notion of 'improving' something?

I don't like that collector approach myself. very little of what I have is pristine, my first modification job was to weather a Hornbt Dublo 8F. My railway runs in the days of Urban Grot, so I want the trains to fit in with that.

 

7. Where 'personal' alterations to RTR stuff have taken place (particularly with regard to weathering), the results can be stupendous. This is an area where things are better than they've ever been (at least in my view).  For someone to be almost 'apologising' for not building kits is nonsense. 

Nonsense, when weathering like this brings a pair of (modified) Bachmann RTR locos to life; the work of Tom Foster. 

I certainly think that a lot of RTR can be improved by slight additions and subtle weathering as long as it is not overdone and in the right shades for the type of stock and period. 

The colour of 'track dirt' has changed over the years with the change in traction, materials carried and type of brakes. You get a different type of grot from old fashioned Iron on wheel rim brakes to that from modern composite disc brakes, and of course fitted freight stock with the brake pipes actually connected was a rarity before the 1960s. 

The stock on the railway was also a mixture of new build, complete overhaul and local patch up. My stock is evolving from pristine through about ten stages to unidentifiable grot. For example 16T minerals were still being built in my setting so were between ex-works and about 15 years old so are painted up accordingly and mixed in with 7-planks varying from done up quite well to ex PO with a few bits of name showing, mostly a dirty coal dust colour with a few unpainted new planks around.

 

8. More folk seem to be paying to have their modelling done by others for them, even to the extent of not being able to fit decoders themselves! 

A case of upbringing and changing times? My Grandfather who was the biggest influence on me worked for a cycle builder before WW1. After the was he joined the LNWR in the days when most of the railway on the ground you built up as you went along. Training with him I learned a lot about metalworking and woodworking, and how to keep things running by repairing and making copies of broken parts. He could make something out of nothing so it seemed. The fence at the bottom of his garden was built c1956 from matchboarding recovered during the replacement of Vauxhall and Duddeston signal box. It was still standing over 40 years later. Some window frames and  floorboards made cold frames for the garden. In my shed I am still using a stool which he made in the early 1950s. Following his lead I still do most things myself, decorating, gardening, minor household repairs, etc where I possibly can. 

 

9. An encouraging sign is that there are some fine, younger modellers out there; and I stress the term 'modellers'! Those who actually make things for themselves, are keen to learn and, most importantly, are 'not afraid'. 

I've seen some good stuff around recently. A few of the younger generation are embracing modern technology to make more detailing such as trackside and on-track equipment found on the modern railway.

 

10. in actual terms, RTR items are not more expensive than they ever were (under £200.00 for a forthcoming RTR Hornby A2/3 - half that of a complete kit!). That said, kit components seem to be increasing in price.

Relative to other prices locos have probably not gone up very much especially when you compare the quality of current offerings. Hornby Dublo's late offering of the rebuilt WC retailed at £5 15s 6d in old money. That is the equivalent of about £125 today.

I have noticed an increase in price of some components for my home-spun stuff. Wheels from the big manufacturers have increased out of all recognition and the last pack of wheel bearings I bought had gone up by about 50% 

 

11. The age profile in the hobby has never been at a higher average, which probably means a glut of items coming on the market in the not-too-distant future; at lower prices? Supply and demand?

I think there has definitely been a levelling off in the price of older stuff e.g. fairly common Hornby Dublo items go quite cheaply, although boxed good condition rare stuff still seems to fetch silly prices if two or three people are chasing it.

 

12. Some clubs might not survive for much longer, and not just because of Covid. Which asks the question, how many exhibitions will return?

I think that's a bit of chicken and egg. Clubs promote exhibitions and exhibitions financially sustain clubs.  I think some clubs will go under as the costs of running a venue are too great these days. There are also too many counter attractions. Society is based too much these days on 'Instant Gratification', hence the rise in the amount and quality of RTR.

 

13. We've never had it so good!

As far as what is available RTR we definitely haven't, and with on-line shopping the range of materials and ready made components available is probably as good as ever.

 

Sorry for a long-winded reply, but I think the original post raised many good points and these are some of my own views.

 

Eric

 

 

Edited by TheSignalEngineer
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7 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

When I made the model of my Grandad's Lineman's Cabin which appeared on Black Country Blues it took me a whole day to produce the three window frames to a standard that I thought was needed for a layout under the glare of publicity like that was. There is only one known photo which I took in 1967 and no drawing to work to, so getting it to look right was a long process over about two months.

 

 

 

Eric

 

 

Two months a long process! Come to pre grouping, I have spent a 8 months just cutting out the pieces to make 4 carriages. The build then followed. 18 months from start to finish. 
richard

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4 minutes ago, richard i said:

Two months a long process! Come to pre grouping, I have spent a 8 months just cutting out the pieces to make 4 carriages. The build then followed. 18 months from start to finish. 
richard

Now I understand your signature line...

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12 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

D154-7.jpg.8f99a8dd6d4bacb00a64d99c00406248.jpg

 

Spotted when taking the last photo - the right hand bogie is wonky. I shall have to investigate!

 

Investigations complete - and side frame repositioned so it is straight. Oops :)

 

D154-8.jpg.2542af2fef5670d4d1eaae808b3a3b74.jpg

 

Lots of fiddly bits to do now. I may be some time...

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22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Paul,

(snip)

 

Could this be more of a generational thing? Certainly, with regard to Bassett Lowke, it would seem that most of the collectors are getting on (have you ever been to a Bassett Lowke Collectors' Society Convention, held every two years in Tewin near Welwyn? I felt like a child!). It would seem that collections keep on coming back on to the market, increasing the supply to satisfy a diminishing demand. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 


I think that’s right, I never got to go to the Tewin event, I think it was a owners group private meeting.  I think BL and early Hornby and German tinplate will retain their value as so little was made (b/l) or stayed pristine (Hornby etc). I think people cottoned on to that hence the Wrenn collectors. However because more people were aware of the ‘value’ of old trains there were more collectors looking to get pleasure+return from those models. As those chaps pass their collections come on the market, but contemporary RTR eclipses them by a country mile, so there’s relatively little interest for layout stock, except for other fewer collectors. When you look at a Dublin/Wrenn Castle vs a contemporary Hornby release, why choose the old one? We know they ran well, but so do the contemporary releases which also look like museum quality, vs the historic ‘toy’ appearance.

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8 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

1. There's been a diminishing of folk actually making things, particularly locomotives and, to a lesser extent, rolling stock (ironically, Covid might have had the opposite effect, but I can't tell first-hand). This might be because of improved RTR (which, to be fair, is now often better than what many could make for themselves; and, it's usually considerably cheaper). 

As far as locos are concerned I think the improvements in RTR have cut down making it yourself. For my own particular modelling area and timescale I can only think of two regular performers not available RTR or announced by the mainstream sources. Those would be the Johnson 2F and Stanier 3P. Some of the others are a little long in the tooth but mostly not too bad with e bit of embellishment.

Coaching stock has improved a lot but from my point of view there is a big hole with LMS Open stock, which I have built using Comet sides, and Period 1/2 stock some of which was around from 1925 to the mid-1960s. I've also just started on some Gresley Opens for my ER excursions set.

Wagons have also improved a lot, but we still only have a generic 5 plank and tank wagons. Again many are a good basis for a bit of improvement but to get the variety I want I have a lot of kits from Parkside, Cambrian and Chivers amongst others. Some are from now-defunct sources but can be picked up if you look and wait.

 

2. The number of new kits being made available (again, particularly locomotives) has also diminished (cause and effect?). 

I think full loco kits have diminished although I don't usually build complete locos myself, only a bit of alteration to RTR. The range of carriages and wagons that it is possible to build if you are doing about WW2 to 1964 is quite extensive.

I think modern methods such as 3-D printing may change the market with made to order copies of things people have produced for their own modelling.

 

3. Far more layout I see at shows and in the press seem to be much the same; again, with regard to locos and rolling stock. And, in several cases, there's a proliferation of RTP buildings/structures. The corollary of this is the smaller number of scratch-/kit-built items, and this is not just in OO. 

I would agree that what is on display is now quite repetitive. I am not 'turned on' by a layout full of 16T minerals with a 9F and a standard brake van or lots of the same 12T box vans

 

4. The general standard of layouts in general at shows has never been higher in terms of presentation/appearance/lighting. However, I wish I could say the same for the running on some of them. Many of these layouts represent the BR steam/diesel transition period. That's why it's refreshing (at least to me) to see, say, a pre-Grouping depiction where, out of necessity, much more will have been made. More and more layouts are controlled currently by DCC (which doesn't always improve the running!) and many now have (annoying?) sound, often too loud!

Standards of construction have gone up. Maybe this is because improved RTR stock has given more time for the infrastructure. Operationally some excellent looking layouts are abysmal. My particular bugbear used to be badly loaded wagons. I remember one particular layout I have seen at least three times and has featured in the mags which has a conflat loaded with an A type container firmly fixed at one end. To me in instant fail. I enjoy pre-1948 layouts as they need a lot more work both in finding information and building sufficient stock of the right types.

My pet hate is DCC sound fitted TMD layouts with 12 Class 66 all in different liveries which wouldn't be around together in timescale or location. I seems a pre-requisite of these layouts to show how clever you are by setting all of the locos to produce maximum noise at the same time.

Besides that sort of thing why do we have to have lots of DCC train noise and no background sounds? just listen to those great old Transacord discs. Railways in reality have urban or rural background noise, traffic, station staff talking to the crew during a stop, block bells from the signalbox window............

 

5. Though I have no 'hard' evidence (other than talking with the manufacturers) most kits (particularly those for locos) are never finished to complete satisfaction. This is substantiated by the number I've seen bought off eBay (not by me; it's as mysterious as nuclear physics!), where many are just a mess. When I say 'complete satisfaction', I admit, that's subjective, but many I've seen don't run well, are glued together and are painted with tar! 

It took me a long time of fiddling with kit bashing and painting to get to an acceptable level of modelling. Some people just don't have the patience to do it.

When I made the model of my Grandad's Lineman's Cabin which appeared on Black Country Blues it took me a whole day to produce the three window frames to a standard that I thought was needed for a layout under the glare of publicity like that was. There is only one known photo which I took in 1967 and no drawing to work to, so getting it to look right was a long process over about two months.

 

6. There is more of a reluctance now for folk to 'alter' what they've bought (in case it decreases the value?). 'Oh, I've just spent £XXX on that model and by improving/altering/renumbering/renaming/weathering it it'll be devalued. Anyway, if I keep it mint/boxed it'll appeal to collectors'. What has happened to the notion of 'improving' something?

I don't like that collector approach myself. very little of what I have is pristine, my first modification job was to weather a Hornbt Dublo 8F. My railway runs in the days of Urban Grot, so I want the trains to fit in with that.

 

7. Where 'personal' alterations to RTR stuff have taken place (particularly with regard to weathering), the results can be stupendous. This is an area where things are better than they've ever been (at least in my view).  For someone to be almost 'apologising' for not building kits is nonsense. 

Nonsense, when weathering like this brings a pair of (modified) Bachmann RTR locos to life; the work of Tom Foster. 

I certainly think that a lot of RTR can be improved by slight additions and subtle weathering as long as it is not overdone and in the right shades for the type of stock and period. 

The colour of 'track dirt' has changed over the years with the change in traction, materials carried and type of brakes. You get a different type of grot from old fashioned Iron on wheel rim brakes to that from modern composite disc brakes, and of course fitted freight stock with the brake pipes actually connected was a rarity before the 1960s. 

The stock on the railway was also a mixture of new build, complete overhaul and local patch up. My stock is evolving from pristine through about ten stages to unidentifiable grot. For example 16T minerals were still being built in my setting so were between ex-works and about 15 years old so are painted up accordingly and mixed in with 7-planks varying from done up quite well to ex PO with a few bits of name showing, mostly a dirty coal dust colour with a few unpainted new planks around.

 

8. More folk seem to be paying to have their modelling done by others for them, even to the extent of not being able to fit decoders themselves! 

A case of upbringing and changing times? My Grandfather who was the biggest influence on me worked for a cycle builder before WW1. After the was he joined the LNWR in the days when most of the railway on the ground you built up as you went along. Training with him I learned a lot about metalworking and woodworking, and how to keep things running by repairing and making copies of broken parts. He could make something out of nothing so it seemed. The fence at the bottom of his garden was built c1956 from matchboarding recovered during the replacement of Vauxhall and Duddeston signal box. It was still standing over 40 years later. Some window frames and  floorboards made cold frames for the garden. In my shed I am still using a stool which he made in the early 1950s. Following his lead I still do most things myself, decorating, gardening, minor household repairs, etc where I possibly can. 

 

9. An encouraging sign is that there are some fine, younger modellers out there; and I stress the term 'modellers'! Those who actually make things for themselves, are keen to learn and, most importantly, are 'not afraid'. 

I've seen some good stuff around recently. A few of the younger generation are embracing modern technology to make more detailing such as trackside and on-track equipment found on the modern railway.

 

10. in actual terms, RTR items are not more expensive than they ever were (under £200.00 for a forthcoming RTR Hornby A2/3 - half that of a complete kit!). That said, kit components seem to be increasing in price.

Relative to other prices locos have probably not gone up very much especially when you compare the quality of current offerings. Hornby Dublo's late offering of the rebuilt WC retailed at £5 15s 6d in old money. That is the equivalent of about £125 today.

I have noticed an increase in price of some components for my home-spun stuff. Wheels from the big manufacturers have increased out of all recognition and the last pack of wheel bearings I bought had gone up by about 50% 

 

11. The age profile in the hobby has never been at a higher average, which probably means a glut of items coming on the market in the not-too-distant future; at lower prices? Supply and demand?

I think there has definitely been a levelling off in the price of older stuff e.g. fairly common Hornby Dublo items go quite cheaply, although boxed good condition rare stuff still seems to fetch silly prices if two or three people are chasing it.

 

12. Some clubs might not survive for much longer, and not just because of Covid. Which asks the question, how many exhibitions will return?

I think that's a bit of chicken and egg. Clubs promote exhibitions and exhibitions financially sustain clubs.  I think some clubs will go under as the costs of running a venue are too great these days. There are also too many counter attractions. Society is based too much these days on 'Instant Gratification', hence the rise in the amount and quality of RTR.

 

13. We've never had it so good!

As far as what is available RTR we definitely haven't, and with on-line shopping the range of materials and ready made components available is probably as good as ever.

 

Sorry for a long-winded reply, but I think the original post raised many good points and these are some of my own views.

 

Eric

 

 

You've raised some excellent points, Eric,

 

Can you check on the equivalent price of £5 15s 6d, please? I thought it was more than £125.00 in today's money. 

 

I wonder what a current Hornby rebuilt 'WC' costs today? More than £125.00. That said, the difference in 'accuracy' between the two models is as far apart as possible in my view.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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8 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

1. There's been a diminishing of folk actually making things, particularly locomotives and, to a lesser extent, rolling stock (ironically, Covid might have had the opposite effect, but I can't tell first-hand). This might be because of improved RTR (which, to be fair, is now often better than what many could make for themselves; and, it's usually considerably cheaper). 

As far as locos are concerned I think the improvements in RTR have cut down making it yourself. For my own particular modelling area and timescale I can only think of two regular performers not available RTR or announced by the mainstream sources. Those would be the Johnson 2F and Stanier 3P. Some of the others are a little long in the tooth but mostly not too bad with e bit of embellishment.

 

I'm personally not sure about the notion that almost everything is now available RTR.

My layout covers SR 1938 - 48 and I recently analysed what ex-LB&SCR locos were available in various forms for this era, and I found that of 25 ex-LB&SCR locos that existed in the SR fleet at nationalisation, only 5 have ever been available RTR (of which 3 are 'sort of' current). 

Kits are or have been available for 19 classes (but some of these duplicate those available RTR), and there remain 6 types for which no RTR or kit solution is available.

Since I have set myself the aim of having in my fleet, at least one of every type that SR had on its books at nationalisation, this does present some challenges - and what I have shown above does not include SR and ex-LSWR, ex-SECR, ex-LCDR or ex-SER built locos!

So I still see plenty of room for kits, including new ones or equally, new 3D printed models.

Tony

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11 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I'm personally not sure about the notion that almost everything is now available RTR.

My layout covers SR 1938 - 48 and I recently analysed what ex-LB&SCR locos were available in various forms for this era, and I found that of 25 ex-LB&SCR locos that existed in the SR fleet at nationalisation, only 5 have ever been available RTR (of which 3 are 'sort of' current). 

Kits are or have been available for 19 classes (but some of these duplicate those available RTR), and there remain 6 types for which no RTR or kit solution is available.

Since I have set myself the aim of having in my fleet, at least one of every type that SR had on its books at nationalisation, this does present some challenges - and what I have shown above does not include SR and ex-LSWR, ex-SECR, ex-LCDR or ex-SER built locos!

So I still see plenty of room for kits, including new ones or equally, new 3D printed models.

Tony

 

Pre-grouping prototypes, especially those that didn't last into later BR steam times or preservation, are really the last bastion of the "If I want one I have to make it or pay somebody to make it for me" modellers.

 

Even then, now that the more common later classes have been covered, the RTR people are gradually looking further back into history. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I'm personally not sure about the notion that almost everything is now available RTR.

My layout covers SR 1938 - 48 and I recently analysed what ex-LB&SCR locos were available in various forms for this era, and I found that of 25 ex-LB&SCR locos that existed in the SR fleet at nationalisation, only 5 have ever been available RTR (of which 3 are 'sort of' current). 

Kits are or have been available for 19 classes (but some of these duplicate those available RTR), and there remain 6 types for which no RTR or kit solution is available.

 

 

I'm sure a similar analysis for any division of the LNER and even LMS (especially in Scotland) would yield similar or poorer results for the last ten years of Grouping and, indeed, the first ten or fifteen years of nationalisation.

Edited by Compound2632
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With regards to RTR availability, the big hole in my eyes is pre-grouping coaching stock. My very blinkered view is of the GE mainline and I can't think of anything pre-grouping available RTR. There will be the generic Hattons ones at some point but of course by their very nature they are inaccurate.

 

I know at nationalisation there was still a very large percentage of pre-grouping coaching stock in service - so manufacturers, with livery changes could, do about 60 years of coverage with one set of tooling. A longer timespan than many post-grouping coaches which they do make! So I don't really know why the manufacturers haven't cottoned on to this.

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11 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

I know at nationalisation there was still a very large percentage of pre-grouping coaching stock in service - so manufacturers, with livery changes could, do about 60 years of coverage with one set of tooling. A longer timespan than many post-grouping coaches which they do make! So I don't really know why the manufacturers haven't cottoned on to this.

 

For example: late LNWR carriages - 57 ft elliptical-roofed stock - were in service well into the 1950s. But that on its own wouldn't help recreate a balanced scene (need more LMS P1 stock for that) and wouldn't be much help for anyone wanting to model pre-Grouping LNWR earlier than c. 1917. The same is true of the one instance of genuine pre-Grouping carriages RTR, the SECR Birdcages stock, where the late period 60 ft stock has been modelled; as far as I'm aware that is incompatible with the popular "full Wainwright" liveried locomotives that have been produced.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

You've raised some excellent points, Eric,

 

Can you check on the equivalent price of £5 15s 6d, please? I thought it was more than £125.00 in today's money. 

 

I wonder what a current Hornby rebuilt 'WC' costs today? More than £125.00. That said, the difference in 'accuracy' between the two models is as far apart as possible in my view.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

No idea what year .

 

In 1960 = £134.00 today

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1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I'm personally not sure about the notion that almost everything is now available RTR.

My layout covers SR 1938 - 48 and I recently analysed what ex-LB&SCR locos were available in various forms for this era, and I found that of 25 ex-LB&SCR locos that existed in the SR fleet at nationalisation, only 5 have ever been available RTR (of which 3 are 'sort of' current). 

Kits are or have been available for 19 classes (but some of these duplicate those available RTR), and there remain 6 types for which no RTR or kit solution is available.

Since I have set myself the aim of having in my fleet, at least one of every type that SR had on its books at nationalisation, this does present some challenges - and what I have shown above does not include SR and ex-LSWR, ex-SECR, ex-LCDR or ex-SER built locos!

So I still see plenty of room for kits, including new ones or equally, new 3D printed models.

Tony

Hi Tony

 

I started on the same quest but with diesels many years ago. After having either converted types to another class, for example class 33 to class 27 or scratchbuilt the ones that there wasn't a conversion possible, wallop in no time my efforts were deemed useless as every other train set user could do the same in RTR. What they will never have is the fun getting there on their own. 

 

 Some homemade locos zooming around my train set

 

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