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1 hour ago, Clem said:

Ah thanks Andrew. I'll get on to Shapeways. The functional but undetailed 10'6" bogies I've got in are actually Bill Bedfords via Eileens Emp. It's important that I expand the variety of my carriage stock to reflect what was actually running on the Nottm-Derby GN line in 1954-5, so (a) GC matchboard strengtheners is a must as soon as I can get to it. If I can produce something half as authentic looking as yours, I'll be well happy! 

 

Clem

 

Good morning Clem,

 

the new Parkside hoppers have  definitely reignited my interest in building authentic trains.

 

Re matchboard strengtheners. Don't forget, these ex GC carriages were also an integral part of a number of sets that ran over both our lines. My five set, containing the ex GC BT(7), was one of several operating as three sets in your time period. As well as working services on the Nottingham Woodford Rugby axis, they also worked Nottingham Mansfield Grantham services. I also notice that one of the Nottingham Grantham ex GN double twin sets has an ex GC T (10) sandwiched between them.

 

In addition, there are a number of one off sets that only turn up in photographs. An almost full ex NE set, an ancient ex GC set and a complete set of ex GE carriages. 

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1 hour ago, Clem said:

Ah thanks Andrew. I'll get on to Shapeways. The functional but undetailed 10'6" bogies I've got in are actually Bill Bedfords via Eileens Emp. It's important that I expand the variety of my carriage stock to reflect what was actually running on the Nottm-Derby GN line in 1954-5, so (a) GC matchboard strengtheners is a must as soon as I can get to it. If I can produce something half as authentic looking as yours, I'll be well happy! 

 

Clem

Well, I've just been on the shapeways site and found the cosmetic GC bogies. A bit of a shock really. By the time the shipping from the states is included, the bogies alone cost considerably more than the kit itself. What the hell has happened to Shapeways? It used to be that its products were quite reasonably priced. Hey ho. I'm going to look elsewhere.

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5 minutes ago, Clem said:

Well, I've just been on the shapeways site and found the cosmetic GC bogies. A bit of a shock really. By the time the shipping from the states is included, the bogies alone cost considerably more than the kit itself. What the hell has happened to Shapeways? It used to be that its products were quite reasonably priced. Hey ho. I'm going to look elsewhere.

 

I must admit, I was a little taken aback by the increase in cost. I was going to get some Restaurant car fan vents, care of Mike Trice..... I shall scratch built them instead.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

You raise and interesting point, Dave,

 

That is who (or what) is to 'blame' for a loco kit not being built properly. A personal story might illustrate this....................

 

Some 57 years ago, my oldest friend was given a K's Pannier tank kit as a birthday present. He asked my advice on it (the fool), and we were both 'seduced' by the fact that the kit contained 'everything to make a working model' (except adhesive/paint/etc.). My recollection is that the wheels were already quartered and were to be fitted into a sort of keyhole arrangement in the frames, retained with a keeper plate. The motor was a K's Mk.1, Aralidited together. He (we) started on the body, using the original slow-setting Araldite, holding the parts together with elastic bands. Naturally, over the curing period, the parts had moved slightly, but we carried on. But, when it came to making it go, no chance! I'd already solved the 'how to make it go' problem, by making Wills or BEC bodies to go on Tri-ang chassis, but this was a step too far. The motor just cogged, we found it impossible to mesh the worm gears (the worm wasn't drilled true!) and the wheels just wobbled along. It did eventually 'go', but it was incredibly noisy, jerky and, practically, unusable. His elder cousin, a doctor in Stoke, was building a model railway (hand-built track, as well!), and trying to run it on that was just an embarrassment. My friend never tried to build anything with regard to model railways again, and was 'lost to the hobby' (many, in their teens, are lost, anyway), but, being more bloody-minded, I carried on............................ He still comes over to run Little Bytham, but he's merely an 'observer' of the hobby now, and has been all those intervening years.

 

Yes, I know, and I've seen, K's kits which have been built using only K's components which work very well (Graeme King's 'J' something or other which ran beautifully during the LNER weekend on LB three years ago), but such 'black magic' is beyond me. I wonder how many others have 'given up' trying to make, especially, locos from K's kits, abandoning the hobby as a result, the perception being that it must be their fault?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Tony,

I had a similar experience with a K’s 44XX 2-6-2. The kit was complete with motor, gears and wheels and it was, I recall, relatively cheap. However assembly proved seriously challenging. I’d only built one kit before which was a Wills 2251 class body kit to go on a Triang under frame but the 44XX was much more complicated. The most difficult part was trying to get the motor to mesh with the wheels because there was no gearbox or motor mount, you just had to screw the motor to a frame spacer and then try to adjust it so that it stayed in mesh which it didn’t for very long. Eventually I realised the only way to do this was to get the adjustment right and then glue it in place.

 

I did eventually get it to run properly and it didn’t look too bad. So it turned out to be worth all the effort in the end. The point being I learned an enormous amount about building such a kit and enabled me to build a lot more models so I was less dependant on RTR. There was also the sheer pleasure in overcoming the difficulties and in making the thing actually work and to see it move along the track and haul its first train.

 

I did subsequently change the wheels to Romfords and I fitted another motor with a motor mount. I still have it but it certainly not going to appear on Retford any time soon.

 

Sandra

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3 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Clem,

 

the new Parkside hoppers have  definitely reignited my interest in building authentic trains.

 

Re matchboard strengtheners. Don't forget, these ex GC carriages were also an integral part of a number of sets that ran over both our lines. My five set, containing the ex GC BT(7), was one of several operating as three sets in your time period. As well as working services on the Nottingham Woodford Rugby axis, they also worked Nottingham Mansfield Grantham services. I also notice that one of the Nottingham Grantham ex GN double twin sets has an ex GC T (10) sandwiched between them.

 

In addition, there are a number of one off sets that only turn up in photographs. An almost full ex NE set, an ancient ex GC set and a complete set of ex GE carriages. 

Good morning Andrew. Those hoppers look perfect for the gypsum trains, and yes, you were right about the price of the GC 10'6" bogies. (see post above). Almost £60 after shipping - more than the kit! I think I'll phone MJT and see where they are with theirs....  or see if its feasible to scratch build them. 

 

Your comments here on the sets operating are certainly in line with the photos I have. I now have a kits in for a GC  T(10), a C(4/5) and a BT(6). I've had these recently from Bill Bedford although he doesn't seem to be opening advertising them on his web site. I ordered them by phone. 

 

 I also have a photo of a seaside special which has a gangwayed GE and a standard gangwayed GC carriage (i.e. not one of the Barnum type like the preserved ones) in it.

 

Sorry to be always asking damn fool questions but do you know if anyone does kits for any of the NER non-gangwayed carriages that lasted into the 1950s? They also seemed to appear quite regularly on these lines.

 

I know I have a lot of work cut out for me here but I want to be making a start soon. Your work has certainly inspired me on that front.

 

Clem

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58 minutes ago, Clem said:

Good morning Andrew. Those hoppers look perfect for the gypsum trains, and yes, you were right about the price of the GC 10'6" bogies. (see post above). Almost £60 after shipping - more than the kit! I think I'll phone MJT and see where they are with theirs....  or see if its feasible to scratch build them. 

 

Your comments here on the sets operating are certainly in line with the photos I have. I now have a kits in for a GC  T(10), a C(4/5) and a BT(6). I've had these recently from Bill Bedford although he doesn't seem to be opening advertising them on his web site. I ordered them by phone. 

 

 I also have a photo of a seaside special which has a gangwayed GE and a standard gangwayed GC carriage (i.e. not one of the Barnum type like the preserved ones) in it.

 

Sorry to be always asking damn fool questions but do you know if anyone does kits for any of the NER non-gangwayed carriages that lasted into the 1950s? They also seemed to appear quite regularly on these lines.

 

I know I have a lot of work cut out for me here but I want to be making a start soon. Your work has certainly inspired me on that front.

 

Clem

 

Good morning Clem,

 

I'm afraid my NER non - gangway carriages came via a phone call to Dan Pinnock, at one time he would provide almost anything that you wanted. Again, I don't know what the current situation is as regards D&S, Jonathan W may be able to advise. The kits come up on the likes of eBay on occasion, unfortunately the kit collectors have made them quite expensive for kit builders like me and thee. A shame, as they are a staple for any layout set in the general area of the LE, the corresponding parts of the ECML and your bits about and inbetween .

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Clem, it might be worth giving JCL of this parish a bell, I think they might be his bogies on shapeways, and I think he now has a printer at home....

 

Andy G

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1 hour ago, uax6 said:

Clem, it might be worth giving JCL of this parish a bell, I think they might be his bogies on shapeways, and I think he now has a printer at home....

 

Andy G

 @JCL does indeed have a printer, but bear in mind it is 4000+ miles away and there's likely to be a Bear in the way.....:D

 

EDIT to add I've contacted Jason to see the state of play with the bogies

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44 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 @JCL does indeed have a printer, but bear in mind it is 4000+ miles away and there's likely to be a Bear in the way.....:D

 

EDIT to add I've contacted Jason to see the state of play with the bogies

 

Thats still closer to me than where you are moving too....

 

Andy G

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2 hours ago, uax6 said:

Clem, it might be worth giving JCL of this parish a bell, I think they might be his bogies on shapeways, and I think he now has a printer at home....

 

Andy G

 

Morning @Clem, I didn't realise I still had anything up on Shapeways - it's their regular price rises that led me to buy my own machine. I'm just off the west coast of Canada, so I'm a bit out the way, but If it helps, I also uploaded the sides onto Thingiverse where anyone can download them for free and print them: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3062866 . The file includes buffers as they have a step on the top of them.

Maybe give Gary @Knuckles a shout as he does commissions sometimes.

I've some photos as well. If you're interested, send me your email address in a DM and I'll send them to you.

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10 hours ago, Clem said:

 

 

Sorry to be always asking damn fool questions but do you know if anyone does kits for any of the NER non-gangwayed carriages that lasted into the 1950s? They also seemed to appear quite regularly on these lines.

 

I know I have a lot of work cut out for me here but I want to be making a start soon. Your work has certainly inspired me on that front.

 

Clem

Hi Clem

 

Worsley Works do etches for some of the NER stock. I haven’t built any yet but I understand that they are good etches. 

........it’s just occurred to me that these are clerestory ones which may be too early for your modelling period....

Jon

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6 hours ago, JCL said:

 

Morning @Clem, I didn't realise I still had anything up on Shapeways - it's their regular price rises that led me to buy my own machine. I'm just off the west coast of Canada, so I'm a bit out the way, but If it helps, I also uploaded the sides onto Thingiverse where anyone can download them for free and print them: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3062866 . The file includes buffers as they have a step on the top of them.

Maybe give Gary @Knuckles a shout as he does commissions sometimes.

I've some photos as well. If you're interested, send me your email address in a DM and I'll send them to you.

Splendidly public spirited!  Many Thanks for this.

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20 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

I must admit, I was a little taken aback by the increase in cost. I was going to get some Restaurant car fan vents, care of Mike Trice..... I shall scratch built them instead.

Perhaps Shapeways needs some competition. A while ago I looked at some Deutsche Bundesbahn wagon bodies in N. By the time I had sourced wheels, lettering etc, I would be paying about Euro 100.00, that is for basically a kit. A few months later, I found the same wagon, complete and ready to run from Modellbahn Union, for about Euro 35.00, guess which option I took. 

 

The only thing I have bought from Shapeways is a three-axle chassis for the Fleischmann Whylen crane in N. This was a few years ago, back then I paid a much more reasonable price of Euro 22.00 plus a normal, in my opinion, postage cost. 

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23 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

I must admit, I was a little taken aback by the increase in cost. I was going to get some Restaurant car fan vents, care of Mike Trice..... I shall scratch built them instead.

 

23 hours ago, Clem said:

Well, I've just been on the shapeways site and found the cosmetic GC bogies. A bit of a shock really. By the time the shipping from the states is included, the bogies alone cost considerably more than the kit itself. What the hell has happened to Shapeways? It used to be that its products were quite reasonably priced. Hey ho. I'm going to look elsewhere.

 

For something like a bogie side or a fan vent why don't you simply build (or otherwise acquire) a single good example, make yourself a silicone rubber mould (not at all difficult for something fairly flat with only one detailed face) and cast all the copies you could ever need in resin, or in whitemetal if you must. Isn't that a better economic approach than sending uncomfortable amounts of money to a purveyor of novelty technology in another country?

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9 minutes ago, gr.king said:

 

 

For something like a bogie side or a fan vent why don't you simply build (or otherwise acquire) a single good example, make yourself a silicone rubber mould (not at all difficult for something fairly flat with only one detailed face) and cast all the copies you could ever need in resin, or in whitemetal if you must. Isn't that a better economic approach than sending uncomfortable amounts of money to a purveyor of novelty technology in another country?

Hi Graeme,

yes that would be a reasonable approach but when you're trying to build a layout single handed to a reasonable standard, it becomes a time thing. And my resin casting components ran beyond being useable so they were disposed of. In other words their would be a substantial overhead to it. If all else fails of course that's exactly what I'll do. one thing for sure, I won't be pursuing the Shapeways solution. I can't justify paying those prices. I am looking at promising alternatives at the moment.

On another subject, you've done quite a lot of GN and GC boiler mounting castings. Did you ever do a casting for the LNER produced later utility dome as used by a majority of the O4s from about 1940 onwards?

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12 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Clem

 

Worsley Works do etches for some of the NER stock. I haven’t built any yet but I understand that they are good etches. 

........it’s just occurred to me that these are clerestory ones which may be too early for your modelling period....

Jon

Hi Jon,

 

yes that probably would be the case. But thanks for the tip.

 

Clem

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16 minutes ago, Clem said:

Hi Jon,

 

yes that probably would be the case. But thanks for the tip.

 

Clem

 

Good morning Clem,

 

Ex NER Clerestories were cascaded to the Southern area. However, this is the kind of carriage that you would require.

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/lner/other/hA0F0D341#ha0f0d341

 

40 minutes ago, gr.king said:

 

 

For something like a bogie side or a fan vent why don't you simply build (or otherwise acquire) a single good example, make yourself a silicone rubber mould (not at all difficult for something fairly flat with only one detailed face) and cast all the copies you could ever need in resin, or in whitemetal if you must. Isn't that a better economic approach than sending uncomfortable amounts of money to a purveyor of novelty technology in another country?

 

I don't think that anybody is thinking of paying those prices. In my case, I only require three fan vents and they are now complete and are about to be fitted. I would have a crack at a GC bogie though. With Clem in mind, perhaps some clever way of utilising resin casting could be used to replicate his LMS Iron stone hoppers?

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1 minute ago, Headstock said:

Good morning Clem,

 

Ex NER Clerestories were cascaded to the Southern area. However, this is the kind of carriage that you would require.

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/lner/other/hA0F0D341#ha0f0d341

Yes. Thanks Andrew, you've nailed it. That's exactly what I'd be looking for. And yes, as far as I know, there were NER clerestories knocking around the East Midlands but I fairly sure they'd disappeared 5-10 years before my era although it's possible some survived in departmental use. 

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12 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I don't think that anybody is thinking of paying those prices. In my case, I only require three fan vents and they are now complete and are about to be fitted. With Clem in mind, perhaps some clever way of utilising resin casting could be used to replicate his LMS Iron stone hoppers?

I've done some resin casting, but I really haven't got the expertise to produce something quite as complicated as an LMS hopper although I admit I did go through the thought process. The scratch building isn't too difficult in plasticard (15thou for the body) and I used Archers rivet transfers to detail the reinforcing strips. But if it was done in brass, that might be better to use as a master as it is more rigid. That might be worth pursuing.

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2 hours ago, Clem said:

Hi Graeme,

yes that would be a reasonable approach but when you're trying to build a layout single handed to a reasonable standard, it becomes a time thing. And my resin casting components ran beyond being useable so they were disposed of. In other words their would be a substantial overhead to it. If all else fails of course that's exactly what I'll do. one thing for sure, I won't be pursuing the Shapeways solution. I can't justify paying those prices. I am looking at promising alternatives at the moment.

On another subject, you've done quite a lot of GN and GC boiler mounting castings. Did you ever do a casting for the LNER produced later utility dome as used by a majority of the O4s from about 1940 onwards?

 

I probably still have a mould for this sort of dome Clem. Whether it is the size it should be for an O4 is for you and others to judge:

STA76108w.jpg.d112541d89a9adb3b0be68edcf5873fc.jpg

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Is there a chance you could take a picture of the shouldered screws you use for the bogie please Tony  (and a picture to show how you mount them up please)? And also who your supplier is please? 

 

I hate limp bogies, on the old triang style flappy strips, I prefer to have my bogies doing the work they are supposed to do, but am always looking for ways to do it easily...

 

Ta

 

Andy G

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