East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[phil-b259]

Have you seen some of the road bridges?

OHE would add a heck of an amount to the cost and it's inclusion would probable have been enough to kill the scheme completely.

Bernard

 

Actually it WAS down for electrification as part of the Governments "Electric spine" proposals announced with great fanfare around 5 years ago.

 

Unsurprisingly with various passengers schemes falling behind / deferred / postponed / etc said proposals (which also included replacement of DC with AC between Southampton and Basingstoke) are well and truly forgotten.

 

However that does not mean that the builders will not make passive provision for wiring at a later date - in fact I believe its now standard practice for major projects as it costs very little to do in the overall scheme of things.

Edited December 13, 2016 by phil-b259

[Zomboid]

I suggest you have a read through the GWR or MML electrification threads before commenting further on this aspect as they will aptly explain why it is totally unrealistic at this time.

 

Actually, electrifying a route which is to all intents and purposes presently a greenfield site would suffer from very few of the problems that the GW in particular has had (MML having actually done just about nothing so far other than a few bridge reconstructions, so we can't really draw comparisons).

It's keeping the route open whilst electrifying which has caused many of the problems. Adding electrification would add cost and complexity, but nothing like the cost and complexity that going back later to add it would cause.

Obviously Bicester to Claydon is open to traffic, but it's not really comparable to the GWML.

[Bernard Lamb]

Actually, electrifying a route which is to all intents and purposes presently a greenfield site would suffer from very few of the problems that the GW in particular has had (MML having actually done just about nothing so far other than a few bridge reconstructions, so we can't really draw comparisons).

 

I would hardly call it a greenfield site. The line was still useable until only a few years ago until some xxxxxxx  cut out the rails. ( Insert your favourite word for these people )

Knock down some of the remaining stations and it would be.

I hope they do not do that as there are some very attractive buildings still in existence.

Bernard

[Davexoc]

I would hardly call it a greenfield site. The line was still useable until only a few years ago until some xxxxxxx  cut out the rails. ( Insert your favourite word for these people )

Knock down some of the remaining stations and it would be.

I hope they do not do that as there are some very attractive buildings still in existence.

Bernard

It might not be greenfield, but unless somebody is regularly clearing the shrubery, it is pretty green....

 

If they are serious about making it a faster journey, electrification must take place at the earliest opportunity. Don't want the residents of Winslow kicking up a fuss about noisy diesels running behind their houses...

 

Dave

[ejstubbs]

Just found out that the line behind my house that runs over the flyover is called versity line

 

Or indeed the Varsity Line.  Because it's between Oxford and Cambridge - like the Varsity Match, which took place at Twickenham last Thursday.

Edited December 13, 2016 by ejstubbs

[Pannier Tank]

I suggest you have a read through the GWR or MML electrification threads before commenting further on this aspect as they will aptly explain why it is totally unrealistic at this time.

 

The over spending on Electrification of the "GWR Four Track Mainline" is on a much larger scale than this topic of conversation (Bletchley to Oxford). 

 

Actually it WAS down for electrification as part of the Governments "Electric spine" proposals announced with great fanfare around 5 years ago.

 

Unsurprisingly with various passengers schemes falling behind / deferred / postponed / etc said proposals (which also included replacement of DC with AC between Southampton and Basingstoke) are well and truly forgotten.

 

However that does not mean that the builders will not make passive provision for wiring at a later date - in fact I believe its now standard practice for major projects as it costs very little to do in the overall scheme of things.

 

In providing this"passive provision for wiring" how much more work would be required to complete the Electrification? 

 

Actually, electrifying a route which is to all intents and purposes presently a greenfield site would suffer from very few of the problems that the GW in particular has had (MML having actually done just about nothing so far other than a few bridge reconstructions, so we can't really draw comparisons).

It's keeping the route open whilst electrifying which has caused many of the problems. Adding electrification would add cost and complexity, but nothing like the cost and complexity that going back later to add it would cause.

Obviously Bicester to Claydon is open to traffic, but it's not really comparable to the GWML.

 

I quite agree.

[Pannier Tank]

The line was still useable until only a few years ago until some xxxxxxx  cut out the rails. ( Insert your favourite word for these people )

Due to lack of maintenance,land slips and of course the unlawful removal of sections of track means it's been a good few years since the branch line was usable between Bletchley and Claydon LNE Jcn; even then the line was singled and in poor condition. The proposed Double Tracked 100 MPH line would mean replacing the existing line and infrastructure anyway.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Pannier Tank

[Fat Controller]

I would hardly call it a greenfield site. The line was still useable until only a few years ago until some xxxxxxx  cut out the rails. ( Insert your favourite word for these people )

Knock down some of the remaining stations and it would be.

I hope they do not do that as there are some very attractive buildings still in existence.

Bernard

Whilst it is less of a challenge than the GWML has been, there are all the risks of buried cable runs, pipelines etc, whose exact locations, and even existence, may not be known, given Railtrack's cavalier attitude to records. 

[phil-b259]

In providing this"passive provision for wiring" how much more work would be required to complete the Electrification?

 

.

A lot.

 

Passive provision means making sure all signalling equipment is AC immune and that nothing is put in places where it might cause problems in erecting OHLE as well as raising the parapets of bridges and providing OHLE clearances under them.

 

It does not include piling works, the building of feeder substations etc.

[lmsforever]

Didn't the alliance say that the contractors are all signed up and ready to go so any new company will have the means to carry out the work with little delay .Electrification would be nice but lets get the line and branches up and running as quickly as possible folks in Aylesbury need a fast reliable link to MK for work and pleasure.Still not sure about Bedford Cambridge I know times have changed from the sixties with regard to rail usage but there are not many large towns or villages between the two centres.    Overall I cant wait for trains to run with all the planned house building our roads are going to be gridlocked very quickly .

[The Stationmaster]

Due to lack of maintenance,land slips and of course the unlawful removal of sections of track means it's been a good few years since the branch line was usable between Bletchley and Claydon LNE Jcn; even then the line was singled and in poor condition. The proposed Double Tracked 100 MPH line would mean replacing the existing line and infrastructure anyway.

 

I don't know when its condition deteriorated but I presume that was a consequence of lack of maintenance.  I last went over the section from Claydon LNE Jcn to the (centre of) the flyover on an Inspection Special in 1993 and it wasn't in bad condition although definitely not suitable for fast running.   Once it was 'let go' it would be the same as any other line and would quickly deteriorate.

[Pannier Tank]

I don't know when its condition deteriorated but I presume that was a consequence of lack of maintenance.  I last went over the section from Claydon LNE Jcn to the (centre of) the flyover on an Inspection Special in 1993 and it wasn't in bad condition although definitely not suitable for fast running.   Once it was 'let go' it would be the same as any other line and would quickly deteriorate.

 

It was probably about that time (1993) that the Bletchley to Claydon LNE section was mothballed. The Marylebone Class 115's that were maintained at Bletchley Depot were replaced by the Class 165/0 Turbos from 1991 onward so there would have been little traffic left by then.

[Bernard Lamb]

Are there any detailed plans available?

From what I know of Borders Rail there was quite a struggle to lay a modern single track line on the foot print of the original two tracks. 

Looking at a map covering Bletchley - Claydon Junction it would be interesting to see just what extra land is required and details of any buildings that might have to be demolished.

Also how various footpaths that cross the route will be dealt with.

Bernard

[Davexoc]

I don't know when its condition deteriorated but I presume that was a consequence of lack of maintenance.  I last went over the section from Claydon LNE Jcn to the (centre of) the flyover on an Inspection Special in 1993 and it wasn't in bad condition although definitely not suitable for fast running.   Once it was 'let go' it would be the same as any other line and would quickly deteriorate.

A couple of years or so ago it was waterlogged around Mursley, Swanbourne was reasonable around the station area, but then that is a private residence, approaching Winslow was overgrown and at the viaduct by Verney junction it was a jungle. Either side of the old crossing at Claydon was also fairly overgrown, but there were signs that the road/rail vehicles had been gaining access at some points and new trespass signs were going up.

 

Dave

[lmsforever]

Daft will making some more of the wonderful comic type videos that will show nothing of interest and as for plans they must be ready due to so many investigations have taken place before.

[Davexoc]

Looking at a map covering Bletchley - Claydon Junction it would be interesting to see just what extra land is required and details of any buildings that might have to be demolished.

Also how various footpaths that cross the route will be dealt with.

Bernard

I don't think there are any buildings that need demolishing, there are a few bridges both over and under to contend with and an aquaduct near Swanbourne. The land has been bought for Winslow station, which I assume is not on the original site which is now houses. The other obstacle is the level crossing near Claydon and the footpaths/occupation crossings.

 

Dave

[ejstubbs]

folks in Aylesbury need a fast reliable link to MK for work and pleasure

 

Blimey, Aylesbury must be a real dump if people from there have to go to Milton Keynes for pleasure.

 

(I lived in Bracknell for a short while, a long time ago.  We used to go to Guildford to try to have some fun...)

Edited December 15, 2016 by ejstubbs

[lmsforever]

Believe me with only the theatre and a cinema you do have to go elsewhere.

[big jim]

One thing I do know is at Claydon, the current run round loop from Aylesbury is currently the east/west line so they are going to build the embankment out futher and lay the loop on that so you will have an up/down line and a loop on the south side of the line

 

There some pics in my thread of a class 66 stood on the disused line just beyond the gates at the Bletchley end of Claydon loop, that was the first train on the closed bit since 1993 and I had to move it there to clear the track circuits for the run round, just to get that there (20m beyond the gates) was a major undertaking with a lot of tree felling, and track fettling, the sleepers were still ropy though!

 

(O/T..Nice theatre in Aylesbury though Lms, saw cilla there in panto the year it opened)

[Pannier Tank]

There some pics in my thread of a class 66 stood on the disused line just beyond the gates at the Bletchley end of Claydon loop, that was the first train on the closed bit since 1993 and I had to move it there to clear the track circuits for the run round, just to get that there (20m beyond the gates) was a major undertaking with a lot of tree felling, and track fettling, the sleepers were still ropy though!

Certainly overgrown beyond the gates!

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70783-jims-down-by-the-tracks-with-colas-thread/page-40

 

I seem to recall that Claydon LNE Jcn was a double track junction from the Oxford Branch to the Great Central. I've actually travelled on a passenger train (EE Type 4 / Class 40) from Bletchley to Marylebone when the Heysham to Euston Expess was diverted (at weekends) off the WCML due to Euston being rebuilt. It stopped at Bletchley to pickup a Pilot / Guard etc so Dad and I jumped on!.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Pannier Tank

[Pannier Tank]

My memory doesn't seem to be too bad, Claydon LNE was built as a double track junction.

 

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lmsr/M639.gif

 

It would appear that the junction was rationalised circa late 60's early 70's.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/4811856068

 

This is the original Signalbox

 

http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?page=1&serial=18&img=G-224-34

Edited December 15, 2016 by Pannier Tank

[The Stationmaster]

An old signalbox diagram (LMS style)  for Claydon LNE Jcn used to be among the museum exhibits at Pendon although I don't know if it's still there.

[lmsforever]

  ​Knew the signalman who was at Claydon Jctn for a while and he said it was a boring job at least he built many loco kits his main job was to the rubbish from Bristol through.

[alant]

I don't think there are any buildings that need demolishing, there are a few bridges both over and under to contend with and an aquaduct near Swanbourne. The land has been bought for Winslow station, which I assume is not on the original site which is now houses. The other obstacle is the level crossing near Claydon and the footpaths/occupation crossings.

 

Dave

The new station at Winslow will be on the right as you drive towards Aylesbury from Buckingham. There is an artists impression board just before you go over the rail bridge.

[big jim]

  ​Knew the signalman who was at Claydon Jctn for a while and he said it was a boring job at least he built many loco kits his main job was to the rubbish from Bristol through.

when i started going there with the stuff for the bicester chord one of the signallers was a new starter, ayoung guy and had been at claydon for 9 months and i was the first train he had seen, all he did up until i turned up was release the token for the single line for trains going to the landfill site, those trains run round at calvert so didnt come as far as claydon box!