LRM K2/2 61775 Loch Treig

[Rannoch Moor]

Well as promised in the autumn (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61967-dave-bradwell-k1-or-lrm-k2-any-thoughts/ ) the bench has been cleared for action (despite a part way completed Sea Balliol which may act as an occasional distractor if things get tough...!):

 

 

I have collected a fair amount of reference material as well as Tony Wright's serial from BRM on constructing the kit. I have a fair number of phots of Loch Rannoch, Loch Laggan and Loch Oich but only an LNER partial one of Loch Treig. If anyone has any phots of Loch Treig in the late 50's then it would be great to see them - or hear of any loco specific tips (eg did it have a tender with the small cut-out at the fwd end at this stage?). If no-joy, will base my version on Loch Laggan which I do have photos of (and consider re-naming the thing!).

 

Anyway, have decided to start with the tender in order to get my eye zeroed back in and also to allow time for a set of Gibson Universal coupling rods to arrive given that Tony Wright's articles pointed out a fatal mismatch between the supplied chassis and rods' centres. Given advice from John Redrup when I bought the loco at Scaleforum it will als be built rigid to avoid fouling the minimal clearances between the drivers and the splashers.

 

Here are the etches for the Ivatt GN tender laid out on my jig - almost a pity to start snipping!

 

 

Here goes

 

Gus

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I am having thoughts of a K2, (suitable for New Engalnd in the late 50s) so will look on with interest.

[Rannoch Moor]

 A good use of a damp and cold Boxing Day with sound progress made on completing the tender body - had one scary moment when I bent the curved corner of the tender tank at the wrong place (ie inboard of the line I had marked rather than outboard) but very luckily managed to bend it back without too much bruising of the brass.  Some gentle re-bending followed by filing and polishing of the inevitable ripples sorted that out, after which it was using bending bars with the correct curved corners being formed around a piece of round brass bar. Luckily all was square and after fitting the interior bulkhead it made for a strong basic box:

 

 

Oh, it is also easier if you drill out the required holes (half etched to allow for variations) prior to this bit rather than I did, afterwards...

 

After this, I fitted the after coal plate that forms part of the tender front taking a lot of care to to get everything sqare up and down and across the width of the tender - then I completed all the seams inside the tender structure before fitting the tender top, again soldered from the inside.

 

 

The trickiest part thereafter (doing as well as following the instructions, although to be fair, I would find it pretty hard to explain!) was bending and forming parts 5 and 6, the sloping interior plates that make up the self trimming element of the tender (ie they allow the coal to settle forward so the fireman can reach it without having to go into the tender and push it forward).  I annealed them (mini flamenwerfer until red hot then allowed to cool naturally) before forming them using the tang of a file and a range of pliers and repeatedly offered them up until they looked right and fitted well.  The photo shows the left hand one tack fitted and the gap and half-etched line on the right hand side awaiting the other one:

 

 

Once fitted, and the gaps filled with solder, all was fettled down and part 7, the forward part of the coal/shovelling plate was fitted - all neat and once cleaned up a nice box that looks like a tender results.  Tomorrow will hopefully see the under-pinnings (frames and chassis) completed.  I may go for a weighted tender resting on the loco drawbar to improve adhesion on an uncompensated loco but I will consider that when I go out for my run around the Burgh to burn off some calories ingested yesterday!

 

Gus

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rannoch Moor]

Progress continues - now have rolling tender chassis and basic superstructure now complete.  I have picked up a couple of phasing issues in the instructions, the most important one being that the instruction to fit the securing nuts over the 2 rear securing holes must come earlier, ie almost as the first job on the build.  They need to be fitted on the upper side of the footplate (ie inside the body) so the securing screws pass through the rear chassis cross member which should (as designed) lie flush against the bottom of the footplate.

 

ie when you are at this stage (sorry you can't see the holes but I took it before I had guessed!)...

 

 

I did not get to the stage of fixing the nuts until the coal pate etc was all on so secured the nuts on the bottom of the footplate, filed off the tabs from the rear spacer and erected the frames using the other 2 (front and middle).  I secured the rear spacer to the bolts, fitted the chassis around it and then carefully soldered the spacer in place.  I then rechecked all was square using my jig and the pointy axles from the Gibson wheel pack The phot has a tiny bit of parralax - they are square - honest!.  In the first phot below you can see the original slots for the rear spacer at the top of the frames.

 

 

You will note I also fitted the frames and front drawbeam prior to this stage - this is etched as one long compontent that is folded into a u shape - worked well although the rear tab on the top of one of the sideframes needed filling shorter in order to fit - the arrangement mad for nice square frames though.

 

 

The rivets worked out adequately once I got my eye in by applying the blunt centre punch and toffee hammer method over the plywood etched kit jig seen above...

 

The buffer housings (Gibson again) had their rears soldered on carefully before they were filed flush using the Dremel prior to being centred (trial and a fair bit of error) over the holes in the laminated buffer beam.  The wheels, guard irons and buffer beam and associated gussets were then fitted.  Photos follow but I secured the gusset plate fillets with cyano - they seem pretty secure this morning but I kind of wish I'd remebered to file the outer edge of the gussetss flush prior to this bit...  Phots later. Aplogies for the phot quality!

 

 

[Portchullin Tatty]

That looks good already.

 

Please stop posting on it though; you might compel me to go and buy one and that would really mess things up as I do have a hankering to do Fort Bill in the 1950's...................!!!

 

As a thought, on my next tender that I make I propose to use Bill Bedford wagon suspension and pin points; with the inside frames ditched in total.  Don Rowland mentioned that he did it when he put radio control into his Super D (MRJ one back) and I thought; humm why not and it will make the tender really smooth running.  I would however make the middle axle capable of moving sideways as per Bill Bedford's thoughts on 6 wheeled coaches (here: http://www.mousa.biz/info/2011/10/six-wheeled-coaches/).

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Every six wheel tender I have built has been a functional four wheeler. End axles in pinpoints, centre axle running in vertical slots with plenty of sideplay, lightly loaded with a wire spring. Works well in both OO and EM...

 

Just the sight of this Ivatt self trimming tender making up is pushing me into a 'buy' decision to produce 35A's 61759 circa 1959. The K2 has advanced up the 'to do' queue thanks to Heljan's proposal to do the Tango which had been next on the list.

[Rannoch Moor]

......you might compel me to go and buy one and that would really mess things up as I do have a hankering to do Fort Bill in the 1950's...................!!!

 

As a thought, on my next tender that I make I propose to use Bill Bedford wagon suspension and pin points; with the inside frames ditched in total.  Don Rowland mentioned that he did it when he put radio control into his Super D (MRJ one back) and I thought; humm why not and it will make the tender really smooth running.  I would however make the middle axle capable of moving sideways as per Bill Bedford's thoughts on 6 wheeled coaches (here: http://www.mousa.biz/info/2011/10/six-wheeled-coaches/).

 

Thanks, Mark - Mallaig would be a more interesting model IMHO though, especially if you included the pier sidings and loco shed

/turntable. 

 

As I've just PMed Mark I will review overall running once the loco is mobile with a view to  making the front 2 tender axles float in hornblocks (probably with a springing arrangement) with some addded weight to rest on the loco drawbar.  Bit reluctant though, as I can blow the rolling tender along...!

 

I also (unsurprisingly) found that 2 of the tender gusset plate ribs did not survive fetlling the outside of the buffer beam - luckily none lost to the carpet monster - so it's off to get out the solder paint and do the job as engineering instead of art this time...  (Another example, other than movement, of the difference between my model trains and aeroplanes...!) 

 

Right, back to the forge!

 

Gus

[Rannoch Moor]

after some correctionUnsurprisingly, soldering the rear buffer gusset plate and associated fillets provided an entertaining forenoon's modelling but we got there in the end... Not perfect and one of the rear guard irons dropped off but acceptable.  Had to rescrub theright hand one after looking at this photo due to the burr in the small hole under the gusset:

 

 

These photos provided useful in spotting errors and here are both sides to celebrate the singed fingers after some correction (and mild nautical language (not yo ho ho..):

 

 

The remaining afternoon was spent very successfully fabricating the water scoop and dome and plucking up courage to bend and fit the tender flare (this evening's job, already cleaned up and secured in the bending bars and vice).  I'm not sure if Loch Treig or the other West Highland/Eastfield K2's had scoop fitted tenders and since all of my many book photos are inconclusive I have decided to maintain momentum rather than die in a ditch.

 

Before flashing up my soldering iron/finger warmer for this evening's session, here's a phot of the tender on its wheels that I forgot earlier...  The rivets don't look rthat squinty in real life!

 

 

 

 

 

 

after some correctionUnsurprisingly, soldering the rear buffer gusset plate and associated fillets provided an entertaining forenoon's modelling but we got there in the end... Not perfect and one of the rear guard irons dropped off but acceptable.  Had to rescrub theright hand one after looking at this photo due to the burr in the small hole under the gusset:

 

 

These photos provided useful in spotting errors and here are both sides to celebrate the singed fingers after some correction (and mild nautical language (not yo ho ho..):

 

 

The remaining afternoon was spent very successfully fabricating the water scoop and dome and plucking up courage to bend and fit the tender flare (this evening's job, already cleaned up and secured in the bending bars and vice).  I'm not sure if Loch Treig or the other West Highland/Eastfield K2's had scoop fitted tenders and since all of my many book photos are inconclusive I have decided to maintain momentum rather than die in a ditch.

 

Before flashing up my soldering iron/finger warmer for this evening's session, here's a phot of the tender on its wheels that I forgot earlier...  The rivets don't look rthat squinty in real life!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scale7JB]

Hi Gus, 

 

I know this kit very well, as I'm on my second at the moment.. albeit in 7mm/Scale7... Fourtrack models (now Gladiator) distribute the upscaled version of the LRM kit..

 

If you need to know anything, just ask..

 

JB.

 

Edited December 30, 2012 by Scale7JB

[Scale7JB]

Oh, and don't forget the splashers between the slidebars and the leading drivers...

 

Something that the kit doesn't cater for..

 

JB.

 

 

[Rannoch Moor]

Thanks JB - and lovely modelling and weathering too.  I can almost smell the sulphurous reek looking at these photos!  Yesterday's brass origami buffer beam strengthening made me think 7mm might be easier!

 

More progress last night too, with the tender flare formed and fittted, remembering of course to bend the flare in the correct direction (beading outermost!). It is helpful (but not essential I think) to secure this in bending bars.  I quickly annealed it first but was a bit nervous of distorting it so it maybe this was not as effective as it could have been, although due to the thin-ness of the brass, I think doing so is unneccessary.

 

I formed the curve using a cocktail stick and worked the curve around it with a half wooden clothes peg - the central parts of the bending bars were gripped in my Dremel vice (a brilliant Christmas present from a few years back!) and the whole length formed at once.

 

 

In accordance with the instructions I marked the centre of both the tender back and the flare and tack soldered the rear on firmly.  It is then essential to tack the front/forward edges as this will assist in ensuring the correct flare radius at the rear as doing so "pushes" the rear back.  Not doing this (ie by progressively soldering aft to forward) will probaby resuly in the flare appearing longer than the tank sides...!

 

 

The best way to avoid burnt finger tips and ensure accuracy is to hold the flare etch into the half etched groove provided at the top of the tender body using the aforementioned clothes peg (wooden!).

 

Once secured, I adjusted the curve of the flare to be consistent and stright in length, along with the corner fingers (great design IMHO) before soldering all secure and filling in the corners with solder.  By that stage my fingers hurt so will fettle as today's job (prior to Hogmanay kicking in!)

 

 

The doors are not squint by the way and there is no gap between the tender front and sides - had to check though!  I really should have asked for a new camera from Santa!

 

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

Oh, and don't forget the splashers between the slidebars and the leading drivers...

 

Something that the kit doesn't cater for..

 

JB.

 

Not easy in 4mm scale. There are already some tight clearances and when Malcolm Crawley designed the kit he had several attempts at including the splasher and decided that it was a bit impractical.

 

Malcolm's main interest (and all test building) was in EM so it mght be a bit easier in OO and he had no idea that the kit would ever be produced in 7mm scale, otherwise I am sure he would have included it!

 

Tony

Edited December 31, 2012 by t-b-g

[Rannoch Moor]

Happy New Year to all my fellow RMWebbers!  Last night's session saw me solder filling and smoothing down the joints between the tender top and the flare as well as adding the beading at the fwd outer ends of the tender (15A fuse wire vice the supplied flat etched beading).  Not much in the way of photogenics but plan to fit the coal plates and other (sturdier) details including dome, steps and handrails later this afternoon.  Last duty will be to fit the coal rails (potentially fragile) followed by  the whitemetal castings which I tend to glue.  Oh, and I need to make a brake standard as this is not supplied (rather surprisingly).

 

BTW, does anyone know where abouts on the tender front the scoop operating handle goes...?

Edited January 2, 2013 by Rannoch Moor

[Rannoch Moor]

BTW, has anyone else found Flexifiles sanding sticks as useful as I have for cleaning up.  I use them as part of my aeroplane exploits and their shaped tips makes the coarse and medium in particular excellent for reaching into corners etc.

[Rannoch Moor]

Front coal rail and inner beading on this afternoon and axlebox holes opened up ready for securing the boxes (after clean up of course) which look beautiful BTW.  Have sent for the Isinglass drawing ( yeah, a bit late I know...!) as I really do need some good quality info before I secure any more of the details.  There are quite a few small bits that look lovely but I'm not sure of their location or purpose in some cases - they do look rather good though some of them and I am reluctant to leave them off as I suspect they will add a bit to the finished article... 

 

So may start the loco a bit sooner than I planned...

[Scale7JB]

BTW, does anyone know where abouts on the tender front the scoop operating handle goes...?

 

Does this help you ?

 

Kind Regards,

 

JB.

 

[Rannoch Moor]

Surely does thank you!  As it happens, the Isinglass drawing arrived today - excellent service BTW - but that photo really helps with both the positioning if the water valves, brake standard and scoop lever.  The brake standard in particular looks really helpful and I am not completely averse to making models of models!

 

Do you know what the hole on the LH side of the tender footplate was for BTW?

 

Gus

[Scale7JB]

Hi Gus,

 

I read somewhere that it was a hole in the footplate for placing a bucket into to stop it from rolling around the cab..

 

I cant think of anything else that it would be for, so I'm going with that.. 

 

JB.

[Scale7JB]

Meant to say, Gus...

 

I have the full build of the K2 on the old old RMWeb... 

 

See link below from page 14 if it's of interest ?!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19603&start=325

 

JB.

[Rannoch Moor]

Thanks to JB and his photo (and the Isinglass drawing), have fitted the water control valve and scoop levers, and after a few micro-soldering adventures, the tender brake standard - just finishing the shovel plate and a small internal step above the "bucket hole" and the front internal part of the tender will be complete (after some cleaning up of course...) Will post a phot or 2 tomorrow. Then the lifting rings and a few other details and hopefully the tender will be substantially complete by the time I go back to work on Monday....!

 

Gus

[PenrithBeacon]

... It is helpful (but not essential I think) to secure this in bending bars.  I quickly annealed it first but was a bit nervous of distorting it so it maybe this was not as effective as it could have been, although due to the thin-ness of the brass, I think doing so is unneccessary.

 

I formed the curve using a cocktail stick and worked the curve around it with a half wooden clothes peg - the central parts of the bending bars were gripped in my Dremel vice (a brilliant Christmas present from a few years back!) and the whole length formed at once.

 

...

The best way to avoid burnt finger tips and ensure accuracy is to hold the flare etch into the half etched groove provided at the top of the tender body using the aforementioned clothes peg (wooden!).

...

Once secured, I adjusted the curve of the flare to be consistent and stright in length, along with the corner fingers (great design IMHO) before soldering all secure and filling in the corners with solder.  By that stage my fingers hurt so will fettle as today's job (prior to Hogmanay kicking in!)

Thank you for that description.

 

Regards

[Portchullin Tatty]

Once secured, I adjusted the curve of the flare to be consistent and stright in length, along with the corner fingers (great design IMHO) before soldering all secure and filling in the corners with solder. 

 

Falcon Brass/Jidenco use the same technique but they are slightly different in that the continious thread of the flare is at the bottom so the fingers open outwards and the gaps between fingers become bigger.  As a result, and because the gaps between the fingers are moderately wide, I have always ended up making my own.  Putting the solid bit on the top and having the fingers close up is much cleverer!

 

I don't think you should anneal the brass for this.  I think it curves more consistantly if it is not. 

 

I find that the best technique for the infilling of the fingers is to use a hard solder (188 degrees at least).  It takes a lot of filing to get it down, but as a result it is possible to sculpt it quite well.

[Rannoch Moor]

Cheers Mark - I have used 188 (edited correction - it's 183) for all the structural stuff and 145 for small details (although like a bufoon I forgot when adding the tender front stuff hence my fingers are an intersting colour today!). I think you are correct re annealing - I chickened out after a quick pass of the flame and don't hink it got near red hot. It formed pretty easily TBH and I think this supports your view (I have spent a lot of years taking advice from engineers in my day job, often along the Star Trek lines albeit, so happy as ever to do so here!

 

The fingers filled easily (much more so than on my Caley Coaches Cl 812 which followed the Jidenco route...) and filing to shape has not been too bad - priming will prove it firther!

Edited January 5, 2013 by Rannoch Moor

[Rannoch Moor]

Here are some photos from last night's efforts and following some cleaning up this afternoon. The enlargement shows some further filling work required around the flare, particularly in the vicinity of the rear LH (looking aft) corner...

 

 

Need to buy some more Milliput I think! Very pleased with how the brake standard turned out too - assorted tube and 1mm rod for the shaft, 0.45mm wire for the handle - the drilling was a hoot for that one!

[Scale7JB]

Very nice Gus..

 

Captured the look of the tender nicely..

 

JB.