RMweb Gold farren Posted January 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2013 i have been looking around for some ex-LMS coaches to run on be layout and come across Phoenix kits web site and was wondering if any one had built any and how good they are as they seem to be about half the price of other kits. But the web site is 3-4years out of date, i have sent a e-mail to them but no reply as of yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Phoenix coach kits are notoriously difficult to get hold of nowadays, to the point that I doubt they are still in production. I seem to recall you had to be a member of the Southern Railways Group (they took over the entire range) before they will sell to you. Not exactly the best way of maximising revenue to keep the range going, if indeed there was any "impetus" (pun not necessarily intended) to keep it going. The SRG's website on the subject is as near-as-dammit dormant, with no changes or updates since 2010. I have dug out my old printed list which dates from 2002 - can't remember which show I picked it up from. The kits mostly consisted of pre-formed aluminium sides and roofs, with everything else in cast whitemetal or brass. Bogies were not supplied, so that you could choose the ones you wanted from other sources. Some of the kits were used by Pendon as a basis for their own stock at the Museum. The SRG membership secretary back then was John Sutton, with an address at 51 Grace Avenue, Maidstone, Kent ME16 0BS. In many ways, like Sharman wheels, it's a shame you can't really get them any more, though it has to be said that they have been overtaken by other kit producers (Comet being arguably the most notable) - there was a very very wide variety of kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 SRG do have stands at some exhibitions where you can buy items from their list without having to be a member- a useful source of A3-ish sized sheets of plastic card, amongst other things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 SRG do have stands at some exhibitions ...... ...but which ones? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 ...but which ones? Well, Southampton for one. they were there this morning. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Well, Southampton for one. they were there this morning. Adam Also Folkestone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Farren I have several of theses kits, they are quite basic as I guess they were designed in the 60's as BSL kits sold by Hobbytime in West Wickerham (?) Kent. Reasonably common on Ebay and do fetch good prices. Aliuminium pre-punched sides, floor, roof and partitions (if corridor coach), plastic droplights and whitemetal ends, whitemetal bogies sold seperately. The floor is quite basic as are the underframe details(if still available). Doors have to be scribed into the sides and ventalators scratch built. They are good bodyside models for flush sided stock, and are quite weighty models (can be a bonus) realy do benefit from the addition of extra detail parts, Comet are a good source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Is it not the case that a great many of the coaches on Pendon are built from these kits? That must be some sort of recommendation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Is it not the case that a great many of the coaches on Pendon are built from these kits? That must be some sort of recommendation. Indeed, which must be the root of some of the discontent at the difficulty encountered in obtaining them. At the time of their introduction, several years BC [before Comet!] they represented a leap forward in the quality and availability of coach kits. I'm not familiar with the contents of the current catalogue but I'd guess that the range has not been totally duplicated yet. All we want to know now is why the owner/manager of the range appears so unresponsive to attempts at communication with him. Will there be a massive queue at his stand at Southampton tomorrow? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan100 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 >At the time of their introduction, several years BC [before Comet!] The fact that the LMS Jubilee 'Phoenix' was rebuilt with a 2A boiler a month earlier than 'Comet' gave the founders of Comet Models some inspiration when they launched their competing range of etched brass (as opposed to punched aluminium) coach sides some time after the launch of Phoenix coaches. Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 ...All we want to know now is why the owner/manager of the range appears so unresponsive to attempts at communication with him... Gradual neglect. The range may not be a priority for SRG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You do have to ask yourself, why if they are obviously not interested in promoting (or even selling the range) they don't sell it to soemone who is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You do have to ask yourself, why if they are obviously not interested in promoting (or even selling the range) they don't sell it to soemone who is. History is littered with examples of people who take on a range, and then find it's a bit more difficult than they thought! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 You do have to ask yourself, why if they are obviously not interested in promoting (or even selling the range) they don't sell it to soemone who is. Whilst when the in-built kits come on the market they sell for decent money. if they were generally available would they still fetch the same amount or be as sought after. Then how many would sell a month? We are also talking about quite a large range of coaches (350), so even to keep 10 of each we are talking of having stock of several thousand body kits. I guess they could be built in batches, so when enough are ordered a batch could be produced. But with the advent of etched kits, though being more expensive have affected the sales of these coaches. I dont know if the Southern group have revised the underframe details, the older ones being very generic plastic models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Does the original company who did the press work (B®iggs Switchgear Limited) still exist ? Have they found another sub-contractor, or does somone have to manually hand press each coach side. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Does the original company who did the press work (B®iggs Switchgear Limited) still exist ? Have they found another sub-contractor, or does somone have to manually hand press each coach side. ? From memory BSL/Biggs Swichgear Limited was owned and run by Ron Coleman. He changed the name to Phoenix when he wound down the 'day job'. The coaches were a sideline to his main profession. He retired, sometime in the early 1990's years and began to sell off remaining stock of coach kits at discount prices. Story so far told to me by Ron when I was ordering kits as he was packing up Phoenix. He died in 1998 and Derek Lawrence handled the railway side of his estate. It was an eye opener as to the 'specials' never listed on the BSL/Phoenix list that were stored at Ron's home. I will always be grateful to Derek as I was lucky to secure a complete GWR artic eight coach train, GWR E145 B set in addition to LNER twin sets, LMS club car and others for a friend, non of which ever appeared in the main lists. The toolings were ( I assume sold) to the Southern Railway Group. I did manage to purchase a few items from the early days of the SRG ownership, but, like others above, communication is now one way only with emails and letters unanswered. Sadly Ron Coleman is not a name of model legend like others, but he is responsible for many a modeller making the move from plastic 'toy' coaches to scale models of prototypes, some of which to this day, no one else has produced. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I recently ordered parts from SRG/Phoenix. There was no problem with communication by phone or email in my experience. Unfortunately, even thought they thought they had the parts in stock, it appeared there were no 'Adjustaride' etched bogie frames for the coach bogies I wanted (SR 8ft steam. They had stock of the rigid white metal version which I didn't want.) I was told that the cost of re-ordering had increased and they would possibly have to order enough etches for 500 bogies. It would take a long time to see a return on that outlay. It appears not much is made 'in-house' if anything, so SRG are reliant on small manufacturers for stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I was told that the cost of re-ordering had increased and they would possibly have to order enough etches for 500 bogies. It would take a long time to see a return on that outlay. Sounds as though the etch tools are with the one etcher that both put their prices up and introduced a large minimum order value. As a result quite a few kit manufacturers withdrew their tooling and moved it to other etchers who have more flexible terms. In one case at least they have lost some of the tooling, even denying they had it in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2013 Well you must have some secret powers because I've tried contacting them many times including letters and got zero response. let us know your secret please. Could you use MJT bogie frets and add appropriate sides (247?) or go for Comet's sprung versions? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Well you must have some secret powers because I've tried contacting them many times including letters and got zero response. let us know your secret please..... He probably joined the society.....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 There was a stand at Scaleforum which,one might think, implies some willingness to trade. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 There was a stand at Scaleforum which,one might think, implies some willingness to trade. ....or possibly they saw this thread and woke up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Please do let us know - I need to complete a set of coaches using their kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think he will be lucky. However, I am willing to eat my layout Saffron Cake if he gets a response. Quack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think he will be lucky. However, I am willing to eat my layout Saffron Cake if he gets a response. Quack. Prepare to be disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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