RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted January 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2014 if anyone has any more detail on freight types or a freight time table on the Chester Holyhead line I am interested to hear. Regards, Anthony Ashley I'm sure you've seen this but this is the only 'free' source I know: http://www.2d53.co.uk/TT/TTmenu.htm but it might be too far after your dates. A quick Google came up with this for sale: http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/wtt/lmregion/br31010-acdeg-060367.php?bcsi_scan_6ff3f37d49d6906c=QMxHd7zyVI+KN1v9g9ywaqKqOpkSAAAA+PR0Cg==&bcsi_scan_filename=br31010-acdeg-060367.php which includes a section on Crewe - Holyhead for 1967; bit pricey but worth the investment if it carries the information you need. Otherwise it may be a good idea to contact the National Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/) as they keep copies of just about everything from that time; a quick query on their site using 'Freight working Holyhead' came up with 100's of items!! Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Dear David, Thanks for the links. I have been to some of the sites but there appears to be additional information since I last looked. I shall further explore in due course. Again thankyou for your assistance. regards, Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS I have just added a couple of small but important features to the layout. These comprise 2 hidden shelves which can be pulled out to 500ml and 600 ml respectively. They will be used to hold the computer and train controller. The shelves can be completely removed if I need to get them out of the way. photos are below First with recessed shelving Second with extended shelving Next task is to create the busses and connect the droppers to the sub busses for connection to the busses, as per the diagram at post 222. I am waiting for 200 lever micro switches to wire the point frogs. I should have a good many days under the layout connecting wire. I have estimated I shall require at least 100 X 12 strip terminals to wi9re up all of the layout. Regards, Anthony Ashley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Just a little... I'd only got to page 2 or 3 browsing on my phone, posting makes it show up so I can find and catch up on the layouts progress on an actual computer later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAILWAY - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear all, Further work on the wiring for the layout. I have managed to terminate 4 detection areas each with three tracks into a couple of terminal blocks. I intend to put every rail through a terminal block to assist with fault finding as each rail can therefore be disconnected. I have also included a photo of my vehicle of choice under the layout.of 4 tracks with three. Photos below. The lowest chair I could find provides my vehicle for moving around under the layout for extended periods. It is quire comfortable and should facilitate further wiring under the layout I hope. Further experimentation required. it is quite a laid back affair. My first 2 terminal blocks completed and tested. It contains all of the wires for the 12 tracks in the detection area (actually 4 detection areas, one for each line). I have grouped the rail for each track of the detection area one after the other first with the negative and then with the positive. The lower terminal strip is the inside 2 lines and the top the outside two lines. Colours form bottom and left to right are orange, white, purple, yellow, black, red, grey and pink. The inputs from the droppers enter the top of the terminal strip and the outputs to the bus lines or to the detection module are on the bottom of the terminal strip ie 3 inputs become 1 output. This photos clearly shows the output wires. I have tested each output and all pieces of track operate through the terminal strip. Very exciting to have something moving on more that one piece of rail. Picture of the copper core cable used to go into the terminal strip. All wires have been soldered to these pieces of copper. Double loops are used where I can fit them into the strip. With three pieces of track needing to be connected electrically for track detection, I am using three terminal points. All 3 have an input with the outside two connected to the inner via a loop as shown joining the two inputs. One output is then required from the middle of the 3. I shall be labelling each terminal output with for each piece of track recorded on my wiring diagram. The terminal strip will also be numbered with the detection area where relevant. I have started running the main bus and sub bus lines to connect to the terminal outputs. I have also ordered 400 lever micro switches and 200 terminal strips from China to assist with frog polarity. 200 servos to follow! All replies are encouraged as a bit of feed back is great and gets the tread to the top of the list again. Regards Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) WELSH DRAFGON RAIL LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear All, Exciting news as I have received my 400 micro switches and 200 terminal strips. All of the 1st stage droppers have been attached and I can now wire up the 2nd stage droppers to the terminal strips for connection to the sub bus lines. The main and sub bus lines are also laid. I have many track detection areas for which the positive wire has to terminate for each track in the detection area in the detection module. I have yet to purchase these but am likely to go for DCC4PC as they provide Rail com feed back. I identify the location of each 16 input detection feed back module, attach the relevant mines to the positive droppers and run them back to a terminal bloc for temporary attachment to the bus. When I get the detection modules I can undo the terminal block and attach the detection module. That way I have trains running before I get the detection modules. I have tried taking photos of the mass of wiring but they are very unclear and do not provide the scale of the wiring. I should finish connection to the terminal strips today. I have tested some flex track and a point hooked up to a micro switch back to the end of the strip terminal, checking the frog polarity on either route, powering them all off a single wire and they worked! There is not much to see for a lot of effort. Given this is my first layout I am feeling a sense of achievement after 12 months of construction. Back to the wiring Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited January 23, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 "...given this is my first layout....." I thnk many of us are simply stunned by the scale of not only what you've planned, but also the technical aspects of what you are achieving. Keep going, we're all behnd you ! Stu 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Stu, Thanks for the comments above. Photos below are of some of the many terminal strips I have connected to the droppers. I need to secure the terminal strips to supports and then finish wiring the point micro switches and laying the tube and wire. Photos below First area to be completed with terminal input for each rail was the hidden track to the north of Conwy. These two terminal strips are 4 detection tracks in the same geographic region each comprised of 3 tracks. Tracks from inner to outer are orange/white for hidden loop down, purple and yellow for hidden loop up, black and red for fiddle yard loop down and grey and pink for hidden fiddle yard loop down. There is only one output to for each common 3 rails in the detection area and these for negative go to the bus , but for positive go to the detection module Each input is clearly labelled with a track number recorded on the track wiring diagram. ie HUL8 = Hidden up loop track 8 I have yet to secure all of the terminal strips. As you can see some are still hanging down. Next task is to secure the terminal strips, attach the busses to the terminal strips and wire the micro switches. Please reply if possible as all comments are useful. Regards, Anthony Ashley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Do the boards tilt up for all this to happen without going completely crazy? Let me know if you run out of rocker switches! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Do the boards tilt up for all this to happen without going completely crazy? Let me know if you run out of rocker switches! Nope - you get someone else to solder droppers and pass them to you under the layout - hence the chair further up. Then you grope around for the soldering iron... nuff said there. Otherwise, its up and down, up and down, up and down. Core ab workout however so the plus is you get fit - and given the weather we have been having this week, sauna too! I did a day on the solder station on the up. Figured I was less likely to get something wrong up than down under it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 You mention the high temperatures, how are the rail expansions catered for ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Dear All, The Sith Lord very generously assisted with dextrous use of his light sabre (perhaps that was his soldering iron- I was too busy under the layout to notice) for a day in assisting with soldering the copper attachments to the wiring for insertion into the terminal strips. His very generous assistance increased the pace of the wiring by at least 5 times, as I did not have to cut wire to length, arise from underneath the layout, solder the components required and then disappear under the layout again to connect wires. I just sat there in my reclining in my purpose purchased chair, cut the wire to length after which Kevin handed me the ready components. He is right though, the heat was a bit of a shocker and my level of fitness with abdominal strength will continue to improve from a mediocre level to a quite high level, with continued activity under the layout of the soldering variety. Who needs a gym when you are reclining at 45 degrees for extended periods! I have also learnt an important lesson as alluded to by the Sith Lord. Always ensure you are looking at your soldering iron when reaching for it no matter how contorted that me require you to be. Artizen can be assured none of the boards constructed to date tilt or raise to assist with this process, although the next board on the left side will raise to enable easy access to the operational section of the layout. I might include a proposed design for the lifting mechanism in the next thread. Once again thanks for the assistance Sith Lord. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL PROPOSED FRAME TO ELEVATE AN ACCESS SECTION Dear All, Please find enclosed a plan of a proposed metal frame made from 12mm threaded rod and metal plates designed to elevate an access section of the layout. The light grey rectangular shape is the section of baseboard comprising the access port. The darker grey lines either side represent permanently fixed baseboards. The access port is designed to be lifted up and over the left side of the layout. The metal plates will be held in place by welded nuts on the threaded rod. The threaded rod runs through the layout framework in 8 places as shown on the diagram. On each frame surface where the threaded rod runs through it there will be a metal plate either side of the frame work to take the weight of the frame as it lifts to prevent wear on the timber framework. I am thinking of adding the type of hydraulic arms found in car boots to assist with the lifting of the access port against the outside metal plates connecting the threaded rod. The access port will swing up and over the left side framework as pictured. Wooden blocks cut at 60 degrees will take the weight of the access port. The lifted layout surface in the open position will not be horizontal given the different lengths of the metal plates joining the threaded rod. I do not think that this matters. Perhaps I should move the right side of the 2 frames closer together to minimise the difference in the length of the metal plates involved. The access port will sit on 4 pieces of wood cut at 45 degrees with matching angles attached to the access port. 4 bolts will ensure the access port is properly seated. Are there any comments or improvements that can be incorporated in this design. Do you think it is practical and feasible. I am after constructive criticism or concurrence with the plan. Stu to answer your question on rail expansions we have had a number of days over very hot days ie over 35 degrees in the last week and there has been no discernible movement in the track. There is the occasion gap but none deliberately added. I hope this is not an issue as to date it appears to be OK. The shed is insulated but still does get hot on very warm days. Willing to listen to comments on this also. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Anthony Trying to understand your plan for the lifting section: your diagram appears to be a plan (ie bird's eye) view of the section, with the hinge line in the left - are you planning to use the threaded rod as a hinge pin? I'm not sure what the other rods are for - are they to stiffen the lifting panel? If so, I think metal tubes (eg aerial tube 30mm ally) would be both lighter and stiffer, particularly if you glued it into the framework - would also provide comfortable handles as a free extra! I think maybe you are planning to have the section pivot on two pairs of parallel pivots - a "four bar mechanism" in which case Google is your friend - you'll find lots of worked examples so you can determine the geometry. You will need to be pretty accurate in your drilling or it'll not quite behave as you want - but given what you've achieved to date, a non issue I guess! I think I would recommend using proper hinges, rather than pivoting things on threaded rod. If it wears, it will get misaligned, and that'll be a PITA. You could use the threaded rod to provide adjustment of the lengths of your links. Following with interest SD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dear SD, I think I need to re-explain the lifting mechanism. The rod on which I have attached handles and the one to the left of it will act like an esky handle to lift up the layout section. Each handle is paired with another rod anchored to the base board to the left of the lifting panel. The 2 rods on the far left going through the stable layout board will act as a pivot point through which the lifted section will pivot up and over the anchored section. With an angle of say 60 degrees on the brown retaining blocks on the anchored layout section the lifted section will sit above the anchored one. The pivoting rods and the rods on the lifted section will be supported by metal plates either side of the of the frame work being lifted therefore reducing wear on the timber frames. The tricky issue is that with the lifting rods being different lengths the board will end up on a tilt once it is resting over the anchored board. This should not be an issue if everything on the board is properly secured. All replies or comments are most welcome as I am after critical comment as provided by SD. Hopefully this post explains the concept better than my original. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 The only issue you might have is with the initial movement - if it's not 100% vertical, the lifting section will bind on the fixed baseboard. Similarly, when replacing the board, if not a 100% vertical drop, then the board may not align with the gap. One solution to this might be to angle the edges of the lifting section, so it sits in a V-shaped 'hole' in the main baseboard. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dear Stu, I think you are right. Then original post contained the following sentence. "The access port will sit on 4 pieces of wood cut at 45 degrees with matching angles attached to the access port." Do you think this will address the issue you have raised, as it should minimise any binding between the frames as the lifted section is being lifted? regards, Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dear Stu, I think you are right. Then original post contained the following sentence. "The access port will sit on 4 pieces of wood cut at 45 degrees with matching angles attached to the access port." Do you think this will address the issue you have raised, as it should minimise any binding between the frames as the lifted section is being lifted? regards, Anthony Oops - sorry, missed that line. So, yes, you've got it covered !! Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) ]WELSH DRAGON RAIL LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear All, Stu thanks for your engagement with the thread entries. They were very much appreciated. I have now finished all of the wiring for the hidden and scenic tracks apart from the point frogs. I need to set up the points with the switching mechanisms, both automatic and manual in order to position the micro lever switches to change polarity as the point switches. I have tried one micro switch with wire to the track and power source. It worked on the unengaged position and then switched polarity when I manually depressed the lever so I know it will work if I can get it set up properly with the wire and tube manual switching. I have enclosed 2 rather poor quality photos- it is hard to take good photos under the layout. They show a small number of the 15 or so 12 input terminal switch blocks. All of these are wired and labelled with the track number recorded in the wiring plan previously attached to this thread. I have attached a clearer copy. Wiring plan for Conwy scenic area. Main bus line is from the controller. There are then 4 sub busses form the main bus line. 2 are the main tracks one left and one right, the other two are the northern and southern goods areas. The green and yellow lines are the positive power line for the tracks with detection. the switches are on/of switches to fault find. As there will be 35 sub districts I shall have 35 on/off switches plus a few extra for the track detection modules. Northern hidden track wiring plan. The track detection module is very obvious in this plan. Photo of a few of the terminal strips now all completed Any posts to this thread are gratefully accepted. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited January 30, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Dear SD, I think I need to re-explain the lifting mechanism. The rod on which I have attached handles and the one to the left of it will act like an esky handle to lift up the layout section. Each handle is paired with another rod anchored to the base board to the left of the lifting panel. The 2 rods on the far left going through the stable layout board will act as a pivot point through which the lifted section will pivot up and over the anchored section. With an angle of say 60 degrees on the brown retaining blocks on the anchored layout section the lifted section will sit above the anchored one. The pivoting rods and the rods on the lifted section will be supported by metal plates either side of the of the frame work being lifted therefore reducing wear on the timber frames. The tricky issue is that with the lifting rods being different lengths the board will end up on a tilt once it is resting over the anchored board. This should not be an issue if everything on the board is properly secured. All replies or comments are most welcome as I am after critical comment as provided by SD. Hopefully this post explains the concept better than my original. Regards, Anthony Ashley Anthony sorry if I'm being dim, but I can't visualise it - any chance you could post a sketch of a side view - end on to the rods? SD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Dear Simond, This is my attempt to provide a clearer picture of the lifting section of the base boards. Lifting section is flat and level with the left base board. The right base board is higher by the width of the frame. Of the 2 metal bars in yellow connecting the threaded rod, one is in front of the other as shown in my original diagram. They will be held in place by nuts secured on the threaded rod. The brown sections are wooden blocks cut into V shapes to make the lifting process easier and prevent the lifted surfaces catching. The house is merely shown to show you the top of the lifting section. There are metal plates screwed into the framework providing stability for the threaded rods. The lifting board section is raised in this diagram and rests on another wooden block cut to the appropriate angle secured to the base board on the right. The raised board will not be flat in the up raised position. The amount of the tilt will be dependent on the difference in the length of the 2 yellow coloured metal plates connecting the threaded rods. I think this is the best explanation can provide. Please let me know what you think. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hi Anthony now I understand!!! it is indeed a 4-bar linkage or mechanism. Comments as follows; the lengths of the bars (yellow) is absolutely critical, as is the position of the pivots. I really would not use threaded rod as a pivot - it would be worth going to see your local blacksmith / engineering job shop and getting some really nice pivots made, as anything running on the threads will wear and go sloppy and then your lifting bit won't lift level - well,. it won't anyway, as you've shown in your sketch, but it will become a bit unpredictable and may even jam. This is particularly likely when the bars are parallel or very nearly so, and there is a risk of them getting crossed - please do look at the available analyses on google - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-bar_linkage is a good starting point and this may also help http://www.mekanizmalar.com/fourbar01.html the risky area is when the lifting piece is just going back into place and the bars are parallel and particularly when one bar crosses the pivot of the other; If you like, it would be like a steam engine without quartering on its wheels. Obviously, one pair of bars needs to be outside the other pair, if they are going to cross, and you've shown this in your original post. I think I would suggest having a bracket below the lifting part, and below the fixed part to which one of the two pairs of bars can be fixed - this will prevent them "lying on top of each other" as they do in the first of your pair of pictures. This way, there is better separation and they can be in the same planes. hope this is clear and helps! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) WELSH DRAGON RAIL LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear Simond and All, Thanks for the recommendations. I shall check out the web sites recommended for more ideas. I appreciate your comments. The reason I thought of threaded rod was the ease of locking in the metal bars connecting the pivot points ie the rods. I have attempted again to set op a point using wire and tube with the help of Ross. Thanks for your assistance. I think both lots of wire I have used will not do the job. Both are galvanised iron wire. The first was 1.25 ml and would go through the tube but was just a little large in diameter. The second was .97 ml in diameter and would work the point most of the time but did tend to bend. I have yet to get the lever frame and will source polished steel wire .1m in diameter. I hope it will work. Accordingly I have stopped wiring and trying to do points for now. I focussed this week end on the sea wall at Conwy. Photos are attached. Ivatt 2 MT with small fuel train travels past Conwy castle. I think I shall tackle the castle next and see how it goes. Only the first section of the wall has been capped. I shall do the rest on the next modelling session. The top of the turret was made with modelling clay and I am very happy with the effect. Hope you enjoy the photos. At least I have moved on with something visible. Please add to the thread with a reply. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited February 2, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37038 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I can imagine that the castle will be a great showpiece once it's done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Dear 37038, Thanks for the reply. I have started work on the castle. It is hard work cutting out the tiny slits in the castle walls. Putting on the plasticard and painting is a lot easier. Photos of progress to date. There is 4 layers of ply in the walls making it difficult to drill and file through the narrow slits. The lines show the start of rock facings covered in vegetation. I have tried to make the openings accurate matching the 200 odd pictures I have of the castle.. The towers are plumbing piping. I should drill a slit in each battlement but not sure how to do it with the very narrow slit required. I might drill a small hole and then use the .2 ml saw which has a removable blade. I need to cast some stone walls out of Queen Bee to provide the flexible material to wrap around the towers Regards, Anthony Ashley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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