Anthony Ashley Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear All, A slow week end where I hope to achieve much but seemed to get little done. Some headway was made with the new right base boards connected and one ply elevation former completed and slotted into the base board. I have included a few pictures below. The height of the ply gives a good idea of the height of the hills around Bangor. I have placed my single deck bus in right of the valley area where the track will run to give an idea of the scale of the hills. it is just visible. The area shown is around No 79 on the plan at my post 324. The hill goes up another 60 mls at the highest. The rest of the ply formers should be quicker to cut out. It has been raining for most of the afternoon and that restricted my carpentry and movement between the workshop and train layout shed. The area where the ply former rests is to the Holyhead side of Bangor (west). There is a substantial hills surrounding most of the station at Bangor. I am slightly altering the prototype by taking the hill on the left side of Bangor on my layout all the way around in order to hide my hidden track underneath that hill. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hello Anthony, This is an amazing thread and I can only echo what others have said, that the scale of it from a UK perspective is simply jaw-dropping. The work you've done modelling the castle is stunning and I think the colour/finish you're heading towards looks absolutely spot on. Are you planning to do the benchwork/track/contouring/scenery for the entire layout simultaneously, or will you complete one area at a time? cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Dear Ben, Thanks for the comments they are appreciated and rekindle my enthusiasm to continue constructing. Your question about the order of completing the layout is a good one, and somewhat dependent on circumstances. I though I would build the Conwy section and then work on it to completion. This does have a disadvantage in that the layout becomes a fairly limited by being end to end with a couple of goods areas, so I have decided I will go a little further I have completed all of the track work west of the river to just before the station. All of the wiring has been completed for this track. I have completed wire and tube for manual point operation for the northern Conwy goods yard. I am about to install servos for the main line and connecting goods points to the main line. These points will be automatic and operate off the train controller or computer. I have been looking to buy a cheap laptop to run TC gold in the near future. I have also finished laying and wiring the top section of hidden track comprising 4 lines in most of the track length. Having got this far I have decided to concentrate on the Conwy scenic area including the castle and medieval town wall and south of these structures. This has the advantage of completing the rail area while limiting my need to build 500 or so houses and shops comprising Conwy inside the town wall at this time. I have the signal box in a brass etch ready to build. The castle is coming on and I am confident with the sea walls. The problem I have faced in further work on the castle and sea walls is the need for further resin moulds for the stone work. Brisbane in the summer months is very hot and humid and not conducive to pouring resin moulds. Accordingly I decided to extend down the left side of the layout and start the Penmaenmawr base boards, while waiting for cooler weather to recommence scenic work on the Conwy board. I have been seeking assistance to construct the metal frames for the next section of the left side, which needs to lift,to facilitate access to the layout. Unfortunately I have been unable to find anyone willing to help since Nov of last year in building this metal frame. Hopefully I shall have better luck soon. I therefore decided to proceed with Bangor side, as I am not limited in the metal work by building on the right. Of course when I get bored with one aspect of the layout there are always other jobs to respark an interest. I find if something s not going right and I get frustrated with that aspect of the layout, changing my focus also rekindles enthusiasm, and allows me to go back to the problem area a little later. That is a summary of where I have got to date. I shall continue with the base board north of Bangor by adding vertical supports, track base work and horizontal scenery sections. The track work on this board is relatively simple and should be a quick task. The scenery should be quite spectacular, with a few tennis court, a cricket field, an old college building and some steep hills and cliffs. Again these will provide challenges in construction as this is my first layout, but planning is everything. I have found though that no plan survives the first engagement and this has been the case with the layout ie remain flexible! I have cut to more vertical supports tonight and fitted one. Thanks for the interest. I hope my ramblings have not bored you too much. Regards, Anthony Ashley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Anthony Rest assured, it's not boring!!! It really, really, isn't! Kind regards Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear Simond, Thanks for the encouragement I appreciate your thoughts. I have been working on the vertical supports for the southern Conwy and the northern Bangor areas. I have finished cutting them and have fitted most of them but are yet to secure them. Next will be priming and then cutting the holes for the track areas, as there are nearly 6 feet of tunnel area on these boards. I have placed the ubiquitous single decker bus to provide a sense of scale. The hills surrounding Bangor are up to 266 mls higher than the track area in the station and that should provide a spectacular back drop for the station. I need the 8 feet across the board to fit in the main tracks and Bangor goods yard. I think there are about 35 tracks going across the yard. Photos are below. The bus is in the valley about 200 mls from the Belmont tunnel entrance. The former behind it is just beyond the start of the tunnel. There is a fairly steep sloe goi9ng from board 1 to the second. side view emphasising the height difference between the 1st and 2nd boards. You can see the height variation along some of the boards and between them. View of the southern part of Conwy showing the area for part ofthe Llandudno goods yards There will be a scenic divider between the higher (Bangor) and lower (Conwy) base boards Next task is to set up the track support areas and cut the elevation formers to allow the track to go through them. I need to be very careful with height as N gauge is quite sensitive to height changes. Maximum gradient is 1:100. All replies are welcome. Regards, Anthony Ashley 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) WELSH DRAGON RAIL - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS Dear All, A busy weekend in the shed doing carpentry and trying to sort put height s to the exact millimetre when going to a higher board. Photos are below. All of the vertical supports are now in place and some holes cut for the track going into tunnels and through vertical supports. The lower Conwy section is taking shape next is to add the flat area for the sea and then build up more supports gofer the sea walls. I shall also be adding the horizontal track support for the lower Conwy area. I have the horizontal support for the hidden track going through the lower Conwy board and it is shown in one of the pictures. The far bank of Conwy. The sea walls are the vertical supports. The main line are show to indicate position. The track for the Llandudno goods yard modelled has not been put down. Hidden track position is shown on the left. The rails disappear into 4 foot tunnels at the end, reappear for a few feet and then disappear onto another tunnel, The hidden track and scenic track join about 8 feet down the board. All replies are welcome. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited April 13, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
model-trains Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Hi Anthony You are doing a fantastic jod, a massive project. You mentioned previously it is all inside 4 garages with no dividing walls. May I ask, how well is it insulated and ventilated, will there be the usual extremes of temperature, winter/summer, I was thinking about expansion and contraction with the temperture variations. In the garages not on the north west coast ;-) PJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 is your model of Penmaenmawr going to include the derelict transfer sidings with the narrow gauge granite quarry railway, and the remains of De Winton engine "Watkin" sat on the wharf? https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/5589795621/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Dear PJ, Thank you for your reply. The garage is one garage comprised of 4 bays ie 3 car roll a doors and a normal doorway. It along the front of the shed. It measures about 39 feet by 19 feet allowing a layout of 35X16 feet. I live in Brisbane Australia and so have less familiarity with the weather in the UK, although I have been there on holiday a number of times. In Brisbane temperatures range from 40 degrees to about 5 degrees Celsius. The insulation is silver foil with thick bats, and then 12ml MDF over the outside of that insulation . I have some fans in the ceiling to draw out hot air. I have found this works fairly well. I have not seen any problem with track expansion and hope it will not be an issue. I have considered air conditioning, however the power requirements for insulation would mean the need to rerun power to the sheds and that is an expensive undertaking. I hope I have adequately covered your queries. If you have any others please reply and I shall give my best answers. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Dear Sir Douglas, If you go to page 9 and entry 222 there is a plan of the scenic part of the layout. If you click on the plan it will expand. Penmaenmawr is on the left of the plan. There is some brown track which runs across the plan heading to the sea. That track then diverges onto the platform area you have mentioned. The records I have found indicate that it stopped working in 1948. It was my intention to slightly play with reality and have the types of power units shown in your picture working the goods area (Dewinton). I have asked a fellow N gauge modeller if he could make a Dewinton from scratch and he has given the affirmative. I am modelling 1960, so I have fictionalised to the extent of 13 years. It should make a very interesting addition to the layout. I don't expect to start the narrow gauge until the other areas have all track laid, so it may be another 5 or so years. I am working on the layout alone apart form Ross who has provided fantastic help on many Friday evenings. There is much to do and a time frame of at least 15 years for completion would not seem unrealistic. There are so many different aspects to this layout and given it is my fist I am learning much as I proceed. I am happy to answer any other questions. Please feel free to reply and I shall do my best to answer. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 WELSH DRAGON RAIL - LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS The weather has cooled at night sufficiently to allow further moulding of stone walls in various assortments. I have finished 4 more moulds for towers in a substance called B Queen a number of flat castle stone panels and about 10 of the smaller sea wall pattern. I probably have another 20 of the sea wall pattern to do plus another variety of larger blocks used on the sea walls. The castle panels will enable me to complete the rail side of the castle. I am also working on 2 LMS fish vans kits. They use the N gauge Stove R chassis with a fibre glass shell. A couple of photos are below. I need to attach the 4 doors to the sides and then prime the etched pieces. I shall give the shell a spray of maroon paint. prior to sticking on the etch parts. Then it is just a matter of a BR maroon top coat and transfer. An easy kit for a beginner like me! On the new layout area I am still setting up the heights for the hidden and main tracks. Some of the horizontal supports are in but very few. Regards, Anthony Ashley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Wow, this really is a project and a half. This really is going to be some layout when it's finished. I have travelled thousands of miles over this line and even got to drive over it once and what you've done so far definitely does it justice. My only disappointment is the era, needs lots of Class 37's dragging Regional railways coaches round the bottom of that castle. Sorry that's just my sense of humour, take no notice. Really looking forward to seeing this develop further. All the best. Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Dear Marcus, Your reply is greatly appreciated. Thank you. I have had a very productive Fri evening with Ross. We managed to cut all of the track portals through the hilly area to the north of Bangor. This has been particularly difficult with the subtle track elevation changes. I am restricting the track elevation change to a maximum of 1:100. This makes the elevation changes quite slow and you need a lot of length for substantial elevation change. it seems to me the elevations are critical to good running in N gauge and so we have been fairly meticulous. Ross assisted me with an e3lectronic level which is very accurate and exactly the tool needed for N gauge. I can now lay the rest of the track horizontal supports for both the scenic and hidden tracks. Most are straight pieces of board and very simple. I have also finished the Conwy goods area with horizontal support using the paper template method to exactly match the required shape. It was relatively difficult but patience and much cutting to get the paper template to exactly fit before cutting the ply pays off. More photos later in the week end. I have enough stone walls to complete the rail side of the castle and the 4 sides of the primary keep. Once I have done more on the Bangor base boards it will be back to the castle. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited April 17, 2014 by Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchie Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hi Anthony. Can I just say what a cracking layout this is. It's really interesting to see my "milltir sgwar" being modelled so effectively. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing things progress ..... Christian. N.B. “Milltir Sgwar/ Square Mile”is a phrase much used in Welsh to define your patch of land, the place that created you, the location that tugs your heartstrings when hiraeth – another uniquely Welsh concept for a yearning that is tied to a particular place - kicks in.” 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I have feelings like that Branchie for a house on Little Huia Road overlooking the Manukau Harbour! Amazing really what little bit of this planet you feel attracted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Dear Branchie, Thanks for the comment it is a while since we have heard for you on this thread. Great comments. Ian I am using your 3 ml board in a variety of ways, mainly as the supports for the sea walls. It has come in very handy. I have been cutting some very intricate shapes for the horizontal surfaces and though I would go through my process for ensuring accurate and once only cuts of ply. It is a bit like dress making using ply, although I have never made a dress! I shall use some photos to explain. First step is to look at the area to be filled and gauge the size paper required to fill the gap. As you can see in the photo below I miscalculated on the width of the piece, as I had not considered the extra area required for the tunnel mouth. With this method you just tape on some more paper to cover the gaps. I normally mark the position of the supports underneath and particularly where there are curves between these supports draw the curves free hand. Once cut out you can tape on more paper if you think the shape is not quite big enough once you test it on the space after cutting it. I fit the paper shape once I am sure it is exactly accurate to the closest piece of ply I have to minimise wastage. I this case I had to turn the paper over to get it to fit Marking out the ply. I use a ruler where at all possible. Straight lines are easy as I just join the corners where I have added dots with straight lines. Curves are carefully traced around. Finished trace on the ply Section cut out with jig saw, but a circular saw for straights as it is more accurate The finished part on place and a perfect fit! Another method used to cut longer pieces with curves which are difficult to judge. The track is used as a guide to give me an edge to draw the curve. I measured the top and bottom of the piece. I also marked in texta where left and right rails on the inside and outside tracks crossed the ends of the piece to provide the length. I carefully removed the flexi track from the supports and moved them to the work shop. Finding the best shape piece of ply I know the width of each end and place the left and right rails respectively the required distance apart, making sure the texta marks are lined up on all rails in 1 line to mark the ends of the piece. The photo below shows the 4 small texta marks at the top of the picture lined up to mark the end of the piece. I then marked out the outside edges of the two tracks as they should correspond to the edge of the piece. I was not exactly happy with the result and therefore traced a paper copy and checked it against the space. As you can see there was some error in my original markings, which I adjusted using the amended paper copy. This photo shows the Conwy main lines on the far bank of the river Conwy with a goods train in part of the Llandudno goods yard just below rise on which the main track sits. Once I cut this piece it fitted perfectly and is just in front of the first vertical riser. A short tunnel will go just in front of and behind the first vertical elevation shown with two gaps for the main line and hidden tracks. In this photo you can just see all the way through the tunnels to the sea at Penmaenmawr at the far end of the 39 foot shed. Llandudno goods yard in the fore ground with a loco and another rake of goods vehicles The view thru 3 series of tunnels comprising 7 feet. There is a 300ml hill over the top of this tunnel. It eventually opens out to Bangor station through the Belmont tunnel Next will be the river horizontal support to the south of Conwy and hidden track support. Then I need to prime all the timber. I am interested in feed back on description of the techniques for shaping the complex supports. If it boring let me know and I shall desist in future with similar descriptions. Regards, Anthony Edited April 18, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 it's these detailed descriptions of your work that will probably inspire someone or help them with what they can do on their layout. Regards, Sam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockdiamonds Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Epic layout and a superb project. I'm new to this forum (member since last year but only recently started my own layout). Will be following with interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Dear Sam, Thank for the positive comments I shall continue to offer advice as I go as it may assist some new modellers. Shockdiamonds do you have a thread with your progress to date. I would bi interested in keeping track of your progress. I have been constructing the first tubular bridge over the river Conwy. Photos are below. Tubular bridge below but minus the supporting ribs on the side of the bridge. Does anyone know how far apart these ribs were. I have been scanning the internet but been unable to find the answer. At this stage I am putting them 1 ml apart equal to 148ml on the prototype. The above photo is my current means of doing the ribs using wire. Any other ideas for a quicker method? Regards, Anthony Ashley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Dear All, I have gone through a document about 200 pages long and found the ribs were only 2 feet part on the bridge. In N gauge only 4 ml! I think my wire is too large but will experiment further. Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Dear All, Experiments with the bridge have continued. new spacing and wire gauge shown below. I think the thin straight wire is a better look. What do you think? Regards, Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Maybe build a quick jig to get accurate spacing? What sort of wire - electrical? I would suggest something like piano or guitar strings - it would probably be straighter and stronger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Dear Ian , I agree the more tensile wire was a better outcome (from BCF used for fishing lures and attaching hooks I think). I am happy with the one side I have done in 1 night. 1 more side to go and the other tube! Back to the base boards tomorrow. Regards, Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Yes - you have nailed it. I should have known you would after seeing all the samples you keep bringing to meetings!!!!!! (I need a smiley with a top hat.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) WELSH DRAGON RAUIL LAYOUT DEVELOPMENTS 1 side of the first tube is finished apart from the top coat. The bridge is a much lighter shad of grey. I think the wire effect is good. Photos below in place on the layout. The photo below shows the bridge with the top removed to enable access at any time in case of derailment. All comments are welcome. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited April 20, 2014 by Anthony Ashley 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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