Andy Y Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Point rodding is a good point (sorry) in question as now we really do have to have a go, as close ups of signal boxes etc now look awful if there's no interior or rodding coming out of the bottom of the box. Despite the availability of the Wills product it's still a time consuming task and one that involves a lot of planning and consideration of conventions dependent on geography which is currently one of OG's headaches on BCB; in future he'll only model single lines in the middle of nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2013 the reviews in Railway Express Modeller in its early years beat the pants off all the other mags when it came to diesel and electric releases. Admittedly, the REM reviews were considerably longer and therefore more expansive than could be given in the more mainstream mags, but they addressed chassis aspects (for example) that other magazines weren't mentioning at the time. REM's critical, and in some cases highly critical, stance toward D&E products got it into hot water occasionally, but to their credit they stuck to their guns, and I think they genuinely raised the bar in what modellers, or at least a section of their community they were attempting to give voice to, were expecting manufacturers to achieve. Some of the reviews were critical, but there were other reviews which may or may not have been connected with the latest limited edition. And if anything the example with the 4F highlights a couple of missing bits - notably point rodding. Not much rodding around a ground frame controlled release (I assume) crossover, so even though I get obsessed by signalling in all it's aspects, that didn't leap out to me as a major fault. Personally I would have "photoshopped" the rail joint at the vee, the wire and the "thing" by the yard point (not sure what it is) and added smoke to the chimney but thats me being over critical and all in all its a picture which works well imho. This is in a similar vein - Well worth a look and shows what little things can be done in very short spaces of time. Quite good for those working long hours with pet humans to consider at home too! Iain Rice proclaimed this way of working on stock many years ago, we did it on the first version of Widnes back in the 1990s, 1 hour to detail each vehicle, whatever we can do in that time is the limit - a useful mantra. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What exactly is BRM remember its tile is " British Railway Modelling" intention or remit then please? I have no idea at the moment , it would appear to little actual modelling and become a Arty picture magazine. It's not my intention or role to defend BRM's current direction or remit - I will leave that to others. I was merely reflecting, accurately I hope, a statement of Andy's regarding market differentiation in a precursor thread announcing and discussing BRM's revamp. I haven't seen the new issue, but from the MRL preview video, and taking the magazine as a whole, it would seem the criticism of it becoming an 'Arty picture' thing would seem to be unfair and disproportionate. Whether it succeeds in its market differentiation is another matter, and from the comments so far in this thread, there seems to be a concern that it is in danger, if only on some stylistic aspects, of paralleling Model Rail. What has the second point got to do with modelling ?? If by 'second point' you refer to steam effects, I take the view that all modelling is cheating, so to extend that process to the transcription of a model (in a picture) is completely valid. In context of course - it would be a bit pointless to add expect steam effects to a chassis construction article, for example. Horses for courses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 In the past I have used a combo of florists wire, piano wire and plastic rod. Ok it's not prototypical or that accurate but to me it's as accurate as sponge trees (which nearly all models are) or a varnish river etc. I like to think I am making a representation of something rather than an actual model of something. So would we go as far as say superimposing and cropping in pics of trees, road vehicles, wildlife etc? Or even lifting people from old archive pics and dropping them in? All interesting possibilities I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What I don't understand is how building a Wills kit capable to being stuck together in about half an hour by anyone who can work out which end of the tube glue comes out of be counted as a project only achievable by a guru in a quiet room. I'd be fascinated to know how you come to that conclusion. The models will all perfectly achievable in the time-frame, even allowing for a tea break. It takes me a little longer because I have to keep stopping to take photos but not much. And no-one is threatening any of my cherished toys. Phil - hey I did say I liked the idea - perhaps you missed that! Just that care needs to be taken with the timeline to make it achievable. That is where I do disagree. 2hrs, sure if you are used to building kits seems more than enough and even I could probably match it - just. The problem is that it raises an expectation that we can all do it within the timeframe and I have sat looking at some brass kits (as an example) for ages without starting yet can complete a good wagon kit in a matter of 4 hours or so (build only) Some kits just seem daunting and that is even more so with the first kit. Unlike you I have no issue with the RTP on a layout - that is personal choice and if it cuts a corner so that something else, more pleasurable, can be done then great. I enjoy building wagons and locos but that doesn't mean I can't do buildings just that it is not my priority in life. Your article shows that it doesn't take too long to build something - it doesn't really matter how long just try to get it into the modeller's mind that it can be started and finished over a reasonable time frame and shouldn't be that daunting. There is a similar, (and I think equally good) article by Neil Rushby in November's RM on adapting the Dapol coal office - I'd like more of the same and sure tell me how long it took you to build but maybe how long it took a complete novice to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh dear, I've done it again - a couple of comments about the visual style and we have a major analysis of review styles from the two people who between them, and in their different ways, have done more than probably anybody else in our hobby to get the reviewing process to its highest standard. I like both styles, I read both - even if the prototype subjects don't interest me - and both have their good points while neither have any (for me) bad points. Both mags please keep up to your present standards - end of subject as far as I'm concerned. Point rodding - I agree with Beast. And to hopefully lighten the mood (also probably known as 'lowering the tone?) no one else seems to have noticed the little oddity of the cover where it says 'Display until November 14 2013'. Apart that possibly causing some confusion when copies arrive in the (former) colonies in x weeks from now I do wonder if there should have also been an 'eat by ...' date as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 the little oddity of the cover where it says 'Display until November 14 2013'. That's always there but you've probably noticed it more as the month/year was omitted from the cover (along with the price) although it's on the spine. It's an indication for the shelf-stackers that it's reached the point where the new issue should be in and they then remove/return/recycle the remaining shelf copies. How they get on overseas I don't know; I just assume they sell stuff beyond its sell-by date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 BRM's stated and understandable intention is to be purposely different from MRJ, both in content and market. And even MRJ doesn't seem to go in for many multi-parters these days. If one is after a serious blow-by-blow, one of Colin Parks' EMUs could fill up a whole year of any magazine. The spectrum (of subject depth treatment) is now very wide across the various media. I'm a big fan of what Andy can do with a pic, albeit that it is unashamedly eye-candy. His 'eternally clear blue June' skies could do with a bit of variation perhaps, and an occasional robmcg-style 'threatening rain gloomy' might be adventurous, although at the risk of being more contentious with some readers. On steam effects, if there is to be steam, give it a bit of wellie: q6-altered.jpg Why give it a bit of welly, when you can give it some real welly? (Apologies for the poor quality, my scanner is on the blink) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's obviously taken from a much higher angle where the ballast detail is less prominent. So if I take an image from a similar angle the ballast will be similarly less prominent. How's this? EWS 66184 near Beverley Road, Hull by JamesWells, on Flickr Very similar ballast, and whilst still covering everything isn't too well defined. So if I take an image from a similar angle the ballast will be similarly less prominent. 4s.jpg But that hasn't been sharpened to anything like the the same degree as the photo of the 4F. I honestly think we're getting to nit-picking levels now. Not really - I thought the two images were there so we could draw comparisons? Whatever the reason for them being posted I think I just don't like over processed images - photos of Pete Waterman's layout in BRM and MI were similarly over processed to my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not really - I thought the two images were there so we could draw comparisons? They were there to illustrate a point about background and lighting, not to start goading on point-rodding and ballast detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted October 9, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just that care needs to be taken with the timeline to make it achievable. That is where I do disagree. 2hrs, sure if you are used to building kits seems more than enough and even I could probably match it - just. The problem is that it raises an expectation that we can all do it within the timeframe and I have sat looking at some brass kits (as an example) for ages without starting yet can complete a good wagon kit in a matter of 4 hours or so (build only) Some kits just seem daunting and that is even more so with the first kit. Unlike you I have no issue with the RTP on a layout - that is personal choice and if it cuts a corner so that something else, more pleasurable, can be done then great. I enjoy building wagons and locos but that doesn't mean I can't do buildings just that it is not my priority in life. Your article shows that it doesn't take too long to build something - it doesn't really matter how long just try to get it into the modeller's mind that it can be started and finished over a reasonable time frame and shouldn't be that daunting. There is a similar, (and I think equally good) article by Neil Rushby in November's RM on adapting the Dapol coal office - I'd like more of the same and sure tell me how long it took you to build but maybe how long it took a complete novice to do it. Not every kit is suitable for the 2hr Challenge. Simple plastic kits, yes, complex brass, no. Maybe for April I'll do a Malcolm Mitchell loco kit... The point of the piece is to show that there are quick and simple projects out there. If the reader can't do it in 2 hours then it doesn't matter. No one is watching you - that's my problem. As for "ready to plonk", that's fine too as it's your model, but for a magazine article I need a bit more than, "I took the model out of the box and put it down", hence I build kits or abuse the RTP model (see next more next month) with my own modifications. It's the difference between doing things for yourself and doing them for other people's entertainment To move the subject on slightly, I'm very open to suggestions for future challenges. In fact, it makes it much more of a challenge if RMWeb'ers suggest the subjects. Next month is sorted but after that then I'm looking for topics. You can get me via RMweb, e-mail or my personal blog. No promises but I'm certainly up for ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Phil, Phil; I can think of a challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 not to start goading on point-rodding and ballast detail. They were merely the items to illustrate my point about over sharpening photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2013 Phil, Phil; I can think of a challenge. I don't think you'll ever manage that, no matter what you do Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Apologies for the 'steam welly' digression, but I couldn't resist this one: Night shots? Here's what I felt was a 'must buy magazine' from a pre-digital pre-Photoshop past (take a bow, dibber): The extreme minimalism of the magazine's style (which I still rather admire, actually) is in stark contrast to today's corporately fashionable (?) 'busy with lots of stickers'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Night shots? Here's what I felt was a 'must buy magazine' from a pre-digital pre-Photoshop past (take a bow, dibber): 1964Decemberv31n368lg.jpg A memorable cover indeed, not that I was old enough to go out and buy it but I did inherit a copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not every kit is suitable for the 2hr Challenge. Simple plastic kits, yes, complex brass, no. Maybe for April I'll do a Malcolm Mitchell loco kit... The point of the piece is to show that there are quick and simple projects out there. If the reader can't do it in 2 hours then it doesn't matter. No one is watching you - that's my problem. As for "ready to plonk", that's fine too as it's your model, but for a magazine article I need a bit more than, "I took the model out of the box and put it down", hence I build kits or abuse the RTP model (see next more next month) with my own modifications. It's the difference between doing things for yourself and doing them for other people's entertainment To move the subject on slightly, I'm very open to suggestions for future challenges. In fact, it makes it much more of a challenge if RMWeb'ers suggest the subjects. Next month is sorted but after that then I'm looking for topics. You can get me via RMweb, e-mail or my personal blog. No promises but I'm certainly up for ideas. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/49911-the-skaledale-2-hour-challenge/ I failed, Stubby failed too. Maybe you can make it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 1964Decemberv31n368lg.jpg The extreme minimalism of the magazine's style (which I still rather admire, actually) is in stark contrast to today's corporately fashionable (?) 'busy with lots of stickers'. Hell's teeth! That was a Colin Gifford cover picture. If you'd put a sticker on that, you wouldn't have lived to tell the tale! Colin devised the picture and I built the model to his requirements. 'Clapham Junction' signalbox out of card balsa and Airfix signal gantry bits. With all this modern innovation, no one actually spends money and time creating cover picture models any more. When was the last time ANY of the big four mags had a specially created cover scene, I wonder? CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hell's teeth! That was a Colin Gifford cover picture. If you'd put a sticker on that, you wouldn't have lived to tell the tale! Quite so - an artistic integrity I admire. Today's picture editors have no morals at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Picture Editors, what are they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think you'll ever manage that, no matter what you do Jerry Oh I don't know Jerry - he's clearly getting pretty near it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh, I forgot to mention how good Redgate's layout article was..............(I'm a bit slow thee knaws). I've seen the layout too, at Mansfield. I tried a couple of PMPs 15 minute heroes thingy; took me a bit longer. However I should have tried the buffer flatten - that's magic and would have only taken about five minutes. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 1964Decemberv31n368lg.jpg The extreme minimalism of the magazine's style (which I still rather admire, actually) is in stark contrast to today's corporately fashionable (?) 'busy with lots of stickers'. Wow 2/6d - those were the days, no one to complain about magazine content other than the post bag and editor's censoring of the mail. Have we lost that era when we were simply the victims of the magazine staff and were served (well) with what they wanted. Now we have the instant discussion of content in minute critical (and personalised) detail, frequently declared before everyone has had even chance to see it for real. Along with the self-advertising topics on forums almost inviting same comment and review whilst secretly hating what emerges as reader's opinions. Oh, for the good old days ... when 2/6d bought a magazine and (lasted) was all you could read on the subject until the next month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I seem to remember they complained that it had gone up from two bob! Certainly, in those days Editors were expected to make grovelling apologies for price increases. Strange, I never saw an apology on anything els, from tins of beans to car insurance, when the price went up. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh, for the good old days ... when 2/6d bought a magazine and (lasted) was all you could read on the subject until the next month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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