Down Ampney Layout Build & Workshop Thread (For All Things 7mm FS & 0-16.5)

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Nice to see some track down at long last, I use common or garden panel pins to fix my track down BTW

Hi Phill,

 

Thanks Phill- some track went down about 18 months back and we then had to wait and wait, and wait for the fencing contractor before we could put down some more (about 35-40' in total) - better safe than sorry as I didnt want size 12 boots trampling on the layout . The work that you see now, has all been done - in grabbed moments - between June and September.

 

In effect we have built 4 or 5 average sized - baseboard wise - 7mm scale layouts in one, due to duff timber issue and so, all things considered, after a challenging year, we have a couple of new fences, baseboards rebuilt and back down, garden tweaked and growing at a decent rate and some track down and the first train run - phew! So all in all, whilst we should have been further forward I am really pleased with our progress, all things considered

 

I have been using trackless control for the last year or two quit successfully on my 7mm garden railway....what trackless control really needs to crack IMO  is sound    

Yes you have, and most impressive it is too! Yet I know that you have had to make some serious decisions, which I am not quite ready for, in terms of locos in the roster.

 

BTW what type of batteries are you using in your RC locos and how do you charge them? Via plug and lead or on a charging track?

 

Couple of further thoughts

 

If you need anything flexible, perhaps for your bridge connections, then don't use solid core wire. You really need to use flexible stranded wire and then you need to ensure that the ends of flex are not able to get wet - so bath sealant, watertight connectors or a watertight junction box is a must. If the water gets in, it will go black, become a lousy connection, and you won't be able to solder to it.

 

The wires coming over the edge of the boards? Well, use wire with brown, black, dark insulation, and a drop of roofing glue/bitumastic to stick it down to your felt. Maybe some suitable 0 scale ballast would disguise it suitably. I'd avoid drilling holes, but perhaps your SBR or some bitumastic, or silicone, would do the trick.

 

Best

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for the continued support and ideas they are much appreciated and there is a lot of food for thought there.

 

Last evening, when looking at older photos of the garden and all the boards coming back up - new planting after, in effect, destroying our, verdant garden - and then looking out of the window to what the garden is now and thought popped into my head....

 

I had, where there was some uneveness in the boards (thankfully only three minor areas and mainly due to fixing bolts not quite ground off properly and some uneveness of the Roofing Felt etc etc.) and I had used some metal shim/strip to pack the track, in one place such was so minimal, yet caused slight uneveness on a rail joint  (I use a light EZ Build bogie to run over joints and it was derailing every third time in one direction over the joint) that I used a couple of fishplates slid under and sprayed with WD40. To help disguise the rusty metal shim/plate, as the the first lot went bright rusty red after being laid 18 months ago, despite the shim being galvanised (modern galv? ), so I painted it with my matt black metal (anti-rust) and plastic paint and the shims/plates toned down nicely. Then when repairing some slight shrinkage in one or two places of the Roofing Felt (with thin strips of felt plus tar) some areas were still a little bare, so I added more tar and then sprinkled Chick Grit atop some was left self colour and some was then dabbed over with some more of the matt black paint, with a view to weathering the latter down with grey with some enamels - I also did the same with the now matt black painted shims, yet I havent 'weathered' with grey those either, and the black ballast looks like coal spills along the line. Thus far this treatment has coped with heat, sun and rain......

 

....So, I thought, why not drill small holes for the wires, treat the hole as previously described (with added tar if required) and then add - instead of fully ballasting - a little bit of ballast (Chick Grit) with either SBR (as that glues/locks such into place, yet will melt tar backing on Roofing Felt if over used) or outdoor varnish and then weather accordingly. The whole lot would be well and truely sealed then, yet workable if remedial repairs are required to track or wiring and virtually invisible (without damaging the integrity of the baseboards?) I can, for a test piece, try this out and see what it looks like in reality before trying out on the layout proper (although I doubt if I shall have time to test for longevity) a risk I know but a calculated one with a mild compromise??......

 

I shall, when time permits, report back with my findings.

 

I write, war and peace on these things, so that if anyone else is pondering such and comes across the Thread then the answers are here somewhere

 

Your comments and experience as is Phill's is invaluable in that regard too

 

Paul Martin of EDM did a one-off repaint of an Ixion Fowler in maroon which Chaz (of Dock Green) purchased.  Having spotted it at Telford in 2014, I went home and repainted my Fowler.  (Mine is in Railmatch BR maroon, Chaz's loco was painted from a colour mix from a paint sample off the Ffestiniog's 'Myrddin Emrys').  

 

IMG_2665.JPG

 

There are a few other excellent repaints floating around RMweb too including Matt(Brianthesnail)'s one on Bury Thorn and Sons.

 

P1010232.JPG

 

There is another in a light blue which again really looks the business (I'm afraid ! don't have a photo of that to share though).

 

Good luck with whatever colour you choose, its a cracking little loco and much improved with a good paint job. 

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks so much for your comments and Posting those photos - theyre just superb!

 

The locos look like their real workaday prototypes and are a wonderful study of the mundane - superbly executed, lovely work indeed....

 

Hi CME,

 

Only just caught up with your progress today.

 

Its looking great. Some serious progress has been made and nice to see track down.

 

I look forward to the next report.

 

Rob

Hi Rob,

 

Great to hear from you - thanks for the kind words.

 

As I mentioned above, I am really pleased with the progress its great to hear that others are enjoying it too.

 

Kindest to you all and thanks for the varied and thought provoking Posts, they are greatly appreciated.

 

CME

 

PS Please excuse any typos Chrome playing up and having to use Firefox - without a spell-checker again.

Edited October 6, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher

[rosspeacock]

Hi Martin, Just caught up too. Excellent progress all looking fab.. nice to see a train run too..

 

Atvb Ross..

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Martin, Just caught up too. Excellent progress all looking fab.. nice to see a train run too..

 

Atvb Ross..

Hi Ross,

 

Great to see you on here- thanks for the kind words and nice to spend five or ten minutes catching up.

 

Kindest to you and yours,

 

CME

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

A little more track laid a few days ago - the weather, up until today (some rain) has been great, but of course, frustratingly, it isnt always possible to lay track, or play trains  .

 

I also almost got eaten half alive by the last few midges and creepy crawlies looking for the last meal of the season (me!) on the last track-laying session!  

 

From the photos it looks like the track bed is leaning - yet as far as I can tell with the use of spirit levels etc. all is well (yes I double-checked after seeing the photos LOL!).

 

The photos shows the fledgeling homage to 'Greystone cutting' a favourite spot on my late pen-pal's old layout, 'Crewchester', as the line follows the reverse curve.

 

To lay the siding - going back the other way - requires fettling of some points (and another LH point) or, if time and weather allows, we may get the viaduct end of the line into the garage which will allow the creation of the Fiddle-Yard.

 

I have been a little cunning and with a bit of a happy accident it would be possible - at a later date - to lay in a 'Y' point further up the line at the start of the curve seen in the photos below and convert the siding into a junction, this with two more 'Y' points, could mean that a full circuit may be able to be tweaked around the garden with a reasonable radius - perhaps not suitable for coaching stock but ideal for watching freight trains or light engine movements and running-in trundle by from our bench (by the viaduct)....time will tell, yet I thought it best to carry on with current plans and get that finished.

 

Kindest to all,

 

CME

 

Photographs are the copyright of the photographer/author of this Post 2015

Edited October 15, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher

[lancer1027]

Great to see some more progress with track laying. I look forward to the next progress report.

 

I hope to get in the garden this weekend weather permitting.

 

Rob

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Great to see some more progress with track laying. I look forward to the next progress report. I hope to get in the garden this weekend weather permitting. Rob

Hi Rob,

 

Thanks its taken some time - but getting there now though.

 

Have you Posted any photos of late? I dont seem to have seen alerts on your line of late?

 

Enjoy your weekend works.

 

Thanks for Posting and the kind words,

 

Atvb,

 

CME

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Nice to see more progress CME,I like the reverse curve....Crewechester has been a big influence on me too

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Phill,

 

Thanks - very much appreciated.

 

Your layout inspires me too!

 

Crewchester's influence spreads far and wide, I think that Jack would be perplexed but delighted, that modellers of the so called 'modern image' were inspired by Crewchester. He was, for me, the master, along with Peter Denny et al.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited October 17, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher

[railwayrod]

Hi CME.

 

Crewchester inspired me as did The Sherwood section of the LMS. I also loved peter Denny and P D Hancock. I could go on and on there have been so many inspirational layouts featured in the model press over the years. These layout were certainly not up to today's high standards but....

 

Keep up the good work Martin things are looking great.

 

Rod

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi CME.

 

Crewchester inspired me as did The Sherwood section of the LMS. I also loved peter Denny and P D Hancock. I could go on and on there have been so many inspirational layouts featured in the model press over the years. These layout were certainly not up to today's high standards but....

 

Keep up the good work Martin things are looking great.

 

Rod

Hi Rod,

 

Ah a man after my own heart. The fact that Down Ampney is a 'U' shaped layout (unless I can fit those three 'Y' points and get a roundy, roundy in the garden in the future), ie the trains leave the fiddle-yard, head out into the garden - for viewing by visitors et al - and then come back into the garage a few minutes later, whilst all the operator has had to do is walk two steps across the garage (from fiddle-yard to scenic section), is all down to an idea cribbed from one of the past masters that you mention, in this instance, Peter Denny and one of his garden railway incarnations.

 

My good mate Chris and I were just discussing the very same this evening.

 

Those fellows' railways that you mention were full of....well....railwayness!

 

Jack Ray was very kind to me and helped me into the world of 'O' gauge, very encouraging in fact, my 7mm adventure was only meant to be a small 0-16.5 NG line with one length of Peco standard gauge track, two wagons and maybe a shunter.......look where it led me!

 

Thanks for the kind words Rod - much appreciated.

 

Some new challenges for the layout, albeit minor ones, have cropped up including our local fox cub becoming a train-spotter - more on that later/soon

 

Kindest regards to all,

 

CME

Edited October 27, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher

[81A Oldoak]

Hi CME.

 

Crewchester inspired me as did The Sherwood section of the LMS. I also loved peter Denny and P D Hancock. I could go on and on there have been so many inspirational layouts featured in the model press over the years. These layout were certainly not up to today's high standards but....

 

Keep up the good work Martin things are looking great.

 

Rod

Rod,

I also list these layouts/builders as among those that have inspired me. Others include the late Frank Dyer's Borchesters, the late David Jenkinson's efforts in EM and 7mm scale and Vivien Thompson's Eastbourne. There are two reasons why they influenced my. First, they were prominent during the 1960s and 1970s, which, from Christmas 1965, were the formative years of my railway modelling. Secondly, the operation was authentic with proper signalling and this was why I liked the Sherwood Section so much despiteit  being coarse scale.

Chris

[switcher 1]

 

 

Secondly, the operation was authentic with proper signalling and this was why I liked the Sherwood Section so much despiteit  being coarse scale.

Was that the layout where they used clockwork & bell codes between sections?

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Was that the layout where they used clockwork & bell codes between sections?

Hi Switcher1,

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

Some of the layouts mentioned had long very lives and several incarnations/progressions. Crewchester lasted for 50 years and approx half of its life it was clockwork - Jack used block working and bellcodes etc. Something I aspire to do with Down Ampney in due course.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[switcher 1]

Perhaps some enterprising manufacturer can make a modern day version of the block instruments; as there won't be many of the originals available at affordable prices.

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Perhaps some enterprising manufacturer can make a modern day version of the block instruments; as there won't be many of the originals available at affordable prices.

I would like some more affordable ones too! .......I was once talking to an exhibitor at Leeds show who had made his own from point motors & telephone bells

[Simond]

IIRC, TriAng used to sell model block instruments, but I never saw one in the flesh.

 

I suspect the real thing would be a tad pricy, and they're pretty damn big too.

 

It is not difficult to make instruments, but a suitable supply of centre-zero milliammeters seems hard to find. If you can live with coloured LEDs it's quite easy. I can post a wiring diagram and some suggestions for manufacture if anyone's interested. Bicycle bells of various tones are available, half Seep point motors will provide the strike. I suppose point motors could be used for the needle too.

 

Best

Simon

[Guest Isambarduk]

"IIRC, TriAng used to sell model block instruments, but I never saw one in the flesh. "

 

Indeed they did - and they are so rare that they are more expensive than a typical real one!

Edited October 28, 2015 by Isambarduk

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I can post a wiring diagram and some suggestions for manufacture if anyone's interested. "
 
I am sure that I would not be the only one interested so 'yes, please', Simon
 
Also, see here: www.brambleton.org.uk/Projects/NewBlocks/NewBlocks_Main.html

(From www.brambleton.org.uk/Projects/Projects.html)
 
David

Edited October 28, 2015 by Isambarduk

[Barnaby]

Yes please Simon it would be good to follow and file away for when the moment strikes.
I see MERG have something that may be worth further investigating. Here's an extract about one of their kits.....

Prototype Block Control

Before Telegraphy was introduced to the railways, trains were kept apart by allowing the driver of a following train to proceed a short time after the previous train had departed. Breakdowns, delays, and the increasing speeds of passenger trains relative to freight inevitably led to collisions. Block Control prevented such collisions by replacing the time interval with a space interval and allowing only one train to be in any one section of track (known as a 'Block Section') at a time. Block working is discussed in books such as 'Signalling in the Age of Steam' by Michael A Vanns (Ian Allan 1995), 'Modern Signalling Handbook' by Stanley Hall (Ian Allan 1996), and 'Two Centuries of Railway Signalling' by Geoffrey Kitchenside & Alan Williams (OPC 1998), or on-line at http://trainweb.com/signalbox/block/index.htm

In the prototype, each Block Section is under the control of a Signalman who communicates with drivers using signals - see Fig. 1.

Signalling a Block Section
Fig. 1. Signalling a Block Section

The most essential signal is the 'Home Signal'; when it is set at 'Danger' a train driver must stop there because it may indicate that the Block Section ahead is occupied. Trains take so long in stopping that a Distant (or warning) Signal is normally provided a full braking distance 'in the rear' of the Home Signal. The two signals can only be cleared when the signalman in the 'Block Section ahead' sends a message by 'Bell Telegraph' that his section is free to accept a train.

As an extra precaution against brake failure or driver misjudgement, it is British practice to add an 'overlap' - typically ¼ mile - after the Home Signal, which must also be empty before a train can be accepted from the Block Section in the rear. At the end of the Block Section there might also be a Starter Signal, especially where there is a station platform into which a halted train could be allowed to proceed, slowly. At least as far as the end of the overlap will be track circuited and the different parts of the section may be track circuited separately. Further discussion of Block Control and track circuits, and especially their modelling in SuperBloc will appear in a separate TB.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Barnaby

[railwayrod]

I too would be interested. So yes please Simon.

 

Rod

[Simond]

Gentlemen,

 

Thanks for the positive feedback. I shall try to do something worthwhile. Please permit me a little time!

 

(Reminders via the PD thread are acceptable of course!)

 

Best

Simon

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Perhaps some enterprising manufacturer can make a modern day version of the block instruments; as there won't be many of the originals available at affordable prices.

I have often wished for that too.

 

I would like some more affordable ones too! .......I was once talking to an exhibitor at Leeds show who had made his own from point motors & telephone bells

Likewise Phill, theyre on a very long 'to do' list!

 

IIRC, TriAng used to sell model block instruments, but I never saw one in the flesh.

 

I suspect the real thing would be a tad pricy, and they're pretty damn big too.

 

It is not difficult to make instruments, but a suitable supply of centre-zero milliammeters seems hard to find. If you can live with coloured LEDs it's quite easy. I can post a wiring diagram and some suggestions for manufacture if anyone's interested. Bicycle bells of various tones are available, half Seep point motors will provide the strike. I suppose point motors could be used for the needle too.

 

Best

Simon

Thanks Simon...

 

Yes please Simon it would be good to follow and file away for when the moment strikes.

I see MERG have something that may be worth further investigating. Here's an extract about one of their kits.....

 

Prototype Block Control

 

Before Telegraphy was introduced to the railways, trains were kept apart by allowing the driver of a following train to proceed a short time after the previous train had departed. Breakdowns, delays, and the increasing speeds of passenger trains relative to freight inevitably led to collisions. Block Control prevented such collisions by replacing the time interval with a space interval and allowing only one train to be in any one section of track (known as a 'Block Section') at a time. Block working is discussed in books such as 'Signalling in the Age of Steam' by Michael A Vanns (Ian Allan 1995), 'Modern Signalling Handbook' by Stanley Hall (Ian Allan 1996), and 'Two Centuries of Railway Signalling' by Geoffrey Kitchenside & Alan Williams (OPC 1998), or on-line at http://trainweb.com/signalbox/block/index.htm

 

In the prototype, each Block Section is under the control of a Signalman who communicates with drivers using signals - see Fig. 1.

 

Signalling a Block Section

Fig. 1. Signalling a Block Section

 

The most essential signal is the 'Home Signal'; when it is set at 'Danger' a train driver must stop there because it may indicate that the Block Section ahead is occupied. Trains take so long in stopping that a Distant (or warning) Signal is normally provided a full braking distance 'in the rear' of the Home Signal. The two signals can only be cleared when the signalman in the 'Block Section ahead' sends a message by 'Bell Telegraph' that his section is free to accept a train.

 

As an extra precaution against brake failure or driver misjudgement, it is British practice to add an 'overlap' - typically ¼ mile - after the Home Signal, which must also be empty before a train can be accepted from the Block Section in the rear. At the end of the Block Section there might also be a Starter Signal, especially where there is a station platform into which a halted train could be allowed to proceed, slowly. At least as far as the end of the overlap will be track circuited and the different parts of the section may be track circuited separately. Further discussion of Block Control and track circuits, and especially their modelling in SuperBloc will appear in a separate TB.

Thanks for Posting Barnaby.

 

I think that, as with sound (if used appropriately) block instruments and block working adds greatly to the railwayness and enjoyment of a model railway, including credible time tables.

 

Really exciting few Posts - thanks Simon et al.

 

Kindest,

 

CME

[Simond]

Oh dear, I do seem to have made a rod for my own back.

 

Give me a little time, let's see what we can do.

 

Best

Simon

[81A Oldoak]

There is a section in this book by the late C J Freezer about building block instruments. It's probably a little dated now.

[Simond]

I have that one - I rather like his reference to "trains of ping-pong balls provided they run under full block control"

 

I will also hopefully meet my pals for a beer this evening, one of them has rather a lot of experience in the field. I shall distil this and make some suggestions.

Best

Simon