Down Ampney Layout Build & Workshop Thread (For All Things 7mm FS & 0-16.5)

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All!

 

More words and no photos - sorry!    - I am putting the following down, in words (its almost impossible to demonstrate in a photo), so as to help any other garden wayfarers.

 

I have been checking the trackbed and the baseboards and all seems pretty good, the long board at the back that needed additional support braces added-without the braces added - seems to have stayed solid and yet flexible so my worries were unfounded. We will still add the bracing though - as I think that it will provide and belt and braces approach.

 

Anomaly

There is one anomaly though and not in any of the places I thought would be problematic! On the curved boards at the top of the garden/back of the layout, which we re-laid last year, there seems to be a slight 'divet' under the mineralised roofing felt in one area, this is, I believe where we ground down the end of one boards - re-treated it - so as to level it up....not a problem and couple of light taps of the roofing felt with a hammer and some packing of the track and all will be well for the siding/line extension track to be laid there.

 

The real concern is just a few inches along whereby the track has 'roller-coastered' slightly. The boards in this part, when laid looked as if they dipped/tipped towards the back - this if you remember was an optical illusion - the effect seems slightly more pronounced now, and when checking with two small spirit-levels proved to be the case, but the fall is minimal and I believe will normalise when the ground dries. The roller-coaster section of track is in a place close to/above a post, the shortest post on the line. If this had been a year or so ago, I would have put it down to rotten/sagging boards, but the boards are strong here, no rot detected, plenty of airflow under the boards and the mineralised roofing felt is good too. I ran one of my MTH BG Stanier coaches over the section and although the coach ran smoothly with no obvious tipping or rocking in certain spots/planes a wheel lifted (the bogies are, of course, not compensated and that doesn't worry me as the track should be able to easily support such without the need for compensation or springing). There is a slight dip and a slight raise in the track. The mineralised roofing felt and baseboards are on an industrialesque scale where as my 7mm scale models, are, of course not, so any such movement is noticeable!

 

The only thing I can fathom, is that the ground and soil (clay based) is still very, very wet (a long way down) - it is drying, but then down comes the rain within a day for two again - and as the track-base is so close to the ground here, even though the posts are long (not as long as the raised sections), with added 'grip' by the way of welded bolts, driven into the ground and then cemented, by allowing some float (as we know clay holds water when wet and cracks when dry and thus 'shifts' so some facility for 'float' has to be included so that the boards are not too ridged), this post has been 'sucked' down further into the ground by the wet clay and raised water tables. Of course the boards in this area stop the post to a certain extent from heading to hell - and the boards here really are rock-solid - BUT this section may have been pulled down slightly. So the dip is over the post (which has been sucked down) and the slight raise is the board 'rebelling' a little - either side is perfect.

 

Remedies

I shall for the time being, see what happens when the ground dries a little as it might sort itself out (I live in hope ). I spent ages getting the track right in this area - the whole line in fact - and there was a minute, but very fiddly, amount of packing of one rail-joint a little further round and that, ironically hasn't moved a millimetre, the roller-coaster section, if it doesn't come back to normal, when the soil has dried, will have to have the track eased up and packed underneath (rather like real world tamping I suppose). I believe that I can do so neatly and if the packing is noticeable, after wiring, I may ballast the line with chick-grit which I have to hand (I was hoping to avoid ballasting on the outdoor sections as cleaning debris off of the line is very easy with just roofing felt in place. Of course although we have been belt and braces with the baseboards in terms of bracing and treatments etc the boards have to move slightly as do the posts - as the ground shifts - and as we all know timber is a natural product so it moves anyway. Having said this, I dont believe that using Foamlux or Filcris products would have negated this roller-coaster issue. I have seen in magazines and on You Tube some garden lines whereby Down Ampney's roller-coaster track problem pales by comparison as, without wishing to be unkind, the layouts in question oft replicate an off-road 4x4 course....in the Amazon! But that's not for me (no value judgements or the like and each to their own standards, wants, needs and wishes), we need to get this 'as near as damn it' right as possible from the outset. We, even with a perfectly level trackbed and track also had this effect appear, to a greater extent, 18 months after building the layout, near to the Brandywine Bridge on the H&BLR and this makes little difference to the course scale flanges used in SM32.

 

Lessons Learned?

Of course the sage old garden railway farers - some of whom have gone home now - stated verbally and numerous articles, wisdom for us all to heed, lay the baseboards in year one, allow them to settle and lay the track a year later! After the problems that we had with boards and fences we wanted to get track down as soon as was possible yet also at a reasonably leisurely pace - which we achived. The other issue is, of course, this is the real world and like a real, prototypical line, we have real world prototypical issues - the same issues that I, in a previous life, let/issued contracts for, not too many miles from here, for the same sort of issues on the WR mainline! - in fact our H&BLR is a real railway in miniature in the real world. Down Ampney? It's a model railway that traverses the garden and therein lies the issue, in that minimal movement and shift has a proportionally larger impact on 7mm fine-scale in the garden, especially when the line is built on clay and runs very close to the ground, due to the topography of the site.

 

One thought in closing; we have used cold applied tar to affix the roofing felt, heating/firing the roofing felt may have been a better option (in hindsight) BUT I am not sure if such would have damaged the treatments and proofings that we have applied to the boards underneath.

 

In the grand scheme of things, whilst I endeavour to spin lots of plates in other parts of my life, I haven't lost any sleep over the matter, I am a little disappointed as we worked very hard last year to strive for perfection, but this year we seem to have had more rain than any other winter that I can remember. If I was a wealthy fellow then I guess I would have an indoor 7mm scale layout and perhaps outdoors I would have a G1 or SM32 line, maybe a real 2' gauge line (dream on matey!  ), but I love garden railways, I always have, ever since following the articles and works of the greats such as Jack Ray et al (and even Sir Alec Issigonis). So needs must with such desires as railways in the garden!

 

I hope that my massive missives go some way in helping others to understand the challenges faced by garden railway enthusiasts and help the reader to avoid the pitfalls of such if he/she chooses to follow suit and venture outdoors with his/her railway modelling.

 

Thanks for looking and thanks for bearing with me!

 

Kindest regards to you all!

 

CME

Edited April 2, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

And breathe.......a little time for thoughts of railway modelling, neither my better half nor I are out of the woods with regard to our health and complications abound as with numerous trips back and forth to various hospitals, all very draining, physically, mentally, emotionally and 'spiritually'.

 

I have the Red Arrow RC (Micromotive) Class 33 on loan and need to charge it before a running session - more on that later.

 

The other day in a rare moment of calm, my better 'alf and I were sat on the bench looking at the garden and the - still un-progressed - garden section of Down Ampney and with great wisdom and clarity swmbo said; 'why aren't you having a full circuit so that we can sit here and watch trains go by?' I replied; 'Well dear, with the bridge in place getting to the centre of the garden will be a challenge, thus awkward for operations, Im not sure if we have enough room for a 5' 6"-6' radius at this end of the garden and I only wanted to operate the cross-over from inside the garage using Microminx Point Actuators and they have a maximum range of 4M'. 'That's a shame, it would be nice to watch trains go by with a cuppa and some biscuits and it would help run-in and test your locos in the summer months - if you dont incorporate such now, it would be a real chore to add it later wouldn't it?'......I agreed, then, in the odd lull before the next storm an idea began to grow.......

 

.........What if I could operate the furthest point remotely, perhaps with RC (or, at a push a Peco point solenoid could be utilised if HD wire and a HD CDU were used - coupled to a micro-switch for polarity etc), I have contacted Red Arrow (Micromotive) and a.n.other to see if such was possible and the ever helpful Steve Leyland has gotten back to me and in line with his product range for the big railway he is now under way with RC point motors for the garden - details will be winging to me soon.

 

What follows now are some photos of mother nature kindly helping with garden railway scenery and my pondering over the placement of three new Switches and some re-modelling of the line before everything is cast in stone.....could I fit in a continuous run?

 

In addition I had an influx of models from loving friends and family for a significant birthday and the general consensus, on their part was; 'get modelling again, it will do you good' - photos of such to follow in the near future.

 

In the meantime photos of the garden (growing), the cross-over and proposed 'Y' Switch for the continuous run, my real world -suck it and see- ponderings over whether or not to use 'Y' or a LH Switch (with some track taken up and the LH Switch and a Yard of Bullhead installed - so as to even up the Sleeper spacing etc)) at the farthest end of the garden, the 'Y' at the viaduct end, and finally a; 'back of a fag packet' drawing of the line's proposed improvements.

 

In closing; the final bridge support plates are in place and now - as we are only back street mechanics - we will have to devise a locking and alignment mechanism and wire the whole thing up before adding the cosmetic viaduct sides (either side of the Warren Truss-Girder Bridge). My dad has been a real star in assisting in the birth of the - through no fault of its own or our own (except my ambitious and failed attempt at a low level line in such a confined garden space ) - problem child that has been Down Ampney to date. I guess if we had been more experienced in 7mm garden railways things may have been easier, the line was simplified and parred back to single track - and yet we are now proposing to make it slightly more complex for the sake of longevity and thus, hopefully, eliminating the boredom factor. If the continuous run goes ahead we are going to experiment with 'plastic baseboards' (more on that another time).

 

I hope that you enjoy the photos.

 

Kindest regards to all,

 

CME

 

PS. Have a look back through the Thread and see how far things have progressed, even with all of the challenges we have come through - the garden used to be verdant until father, uncle, friends and I trampled it and removed planting to blast a railway through - oops! Then a fair few heavy storms and new fencing was required and afterwards the garden looked awful and now its getting back to being like it was before, different, as its now, thankfully ultra low maintenance. Next year, with improved health, my better 'alf will add more colour with flowers in pots and the like dotted around the garden. The railway is still visible when trains run, but it is bedding in and looks part of the landscape now. The hedges will also help protect the trains in case of derailment.

 

Photographs are the copyright of the photographer and author of this Post 2016 etc.

Edited July 7, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

A few further thoughts (whilst I endeavour to use the correct terminology <slaps wrist-naughty boy you've gotten into some bad habits!>, when with WR and then RT we never called, IIRC, Switches & Crossings, 'Points', 'Turnouts' or the like);-

 

Thoughts and Advice;

I have had some news on RC Switch and Crossing (Turnout) control and although Peco Solenoids are robust in use in the garden if the Switches are to be operated by battery(?) then a HD CDU is probably out of the question.....I have been told that Tortoise PMs will work okay instead, yet to my mind they are pretty chunky and above-baseboard fitting is going to be problematic (that's why I was using Microminx on the cross-over) on the far side of the layout (I am guessing that they will need weather-proofing somehow too and there is no room for a large building, to weather-proof and disguise, on that part of the layout- when thinking on it there should be a Signal Box there - I hope to have room to mount it further round, but this change of layout plan may now make that a problematic issue too). I could try and mount a Minx controller outdoors for the summer months but they wont cope with frost, no matter how well weather-proofed (and muggins here would probably forget to bring it in over winter!). Any advice or comments would be gratefully received on these issues please.

 

Baseboards for the Line Extension/To Complete a Circuit;

We are considering, for longevity and easy of construction, using (experimenting with?  ) 'plastic' for these boards as we cant really face the same construction methods as used on the rest of the layout so far (although we still have some of the ply left over). We shall probably go for a ladder type construction in plastic or exterior quality MDF. The plastic options are PVCu, Filcris or Foamlux. The former is very cost effective and we can buy such at trade prices, yet it does have co-efficient of variation issues (ie temperature), eg. the cracking of guttering in the heat, having said this guttering is very thin and extruded from a single substrate whereas Soffit and Barge-Boards arnt and I think that works in our favour. Although more expensive the Filcris system can be purchased as a kit of parts with certain aspects being bespoke, it is more costly than PVCu yet its not too pricey for the short section we need. There is a 'but', its great for the large scales and gauges and by large I mean SM32 upwards, yet in the smaller scales, with fine-scale track, its coefficient of variation is more pronounced, it really is more susceptible to heat and cold temperature variations than PVCu, thus expansion and contraction is greater. Foamlux is getting evermore expensive and our source for such has all but dried up and we would now have to pay almost 'retail' for the product, but it is good, it performs really well outside (it is of course an exterior grade foam-core-board) and we are using such for the viaduct, bridge deck and one baseboard going into the garage (as an experiment = foolish or brave? ) Finally there is exterior quality MDF - sounds like madness doesn't it?! But I know of one fellow, who like, me had the same problems with failing ply-boards - due to shoddy/slipshod supply (which is becoming every more widespread as is poor quality timber compounded by the fact that proofing treatments with arsenic et al in have been banned by the EU) - so he thought outside of the box and went with MDF. I did look into using MDF last time, yet the price was prohibitive and I wasn't convinced (after a total loss of faith in the timber industry - I have to say that our new supplier for timber seems to be a good 'un), but it seems like 25 years is the minimum that exterior quality MDF will last and, relatively speaking, its price is more attractive two years down the road as well as in terms of its longevity. There are issues with it though - ie cutting it, certain preservatives can damage its constituent make up and the manufacturer would prefer paint coatings to be used as a 'sealer' and that worries me as I believe that they will break down in time as paint aint what it used to be in terms of longevity either (that's progress for you!), so I need to enquire if SBR can be used on any cut lines.

 

We have samples and more information coming on all of the above products and their suitability and I will Post an update as and when.

 

Peco Switches/Crossings (Turnouts);

We are using Peco track-work throughout and whilst it's not perfect in terms of its prototypical adherence to the M&SWJR/WR/GWR with some modification the Switches will be made more reliable and to look more prototypical.

 

For the garden section robustness is key so the following mods will be carried out;-

 

1) Hard-wire/bypass the Peco Switch for garden and DCC use (although I am still tempted/considering going over to all RC - but visiting engines would struggle without juice to the rails!    );

 

2) Modify the Crossing/Nose/'V' and Wing plus Check-Rails to work better - ie get rid of the over-scale gap - and look better.

 

For longevity and robustness the Stretcher/Tie Bars will be left as is - we have been using SM32 Switches with such for 14 years with very few problems.

 

For the indoor Scenic Section;-

 

1) Hard-wire for DCC use;

2) Modify the Crossing Nose/'V' and Wing plus Check-Rails;

3) Modify the Timbers to more prototypical appearance;

4) Modify the Stretcher/Tie Bar for a more prototypical appearance - yet with reliability in mind - get rid of Dummy Facing Point-Locks;

5) Maybe modify Bolt-Head and Chair detail on plain BH track.

 

'Why not build your own?!' I hear you cry. Well I love looking at hand-built track but time and interest in doing such myself is in short supply - fettling and modifying is acceptable though, making track would not be enjoyable for me (time is even more limited now than when I started on Down Ampney) - what is the betting, that when I have weathered and finished ballasting the last of the track on the scenic section Peco et al will bring out prototypical GWR/WR track...RTL! With the amount of GWR & WR BLT's and its range of, back in the day, of GWR/WR wagon kits I would have thought that GWR/WR track would have been a winner for Peco. Before anyone says; 'yes but the rest of the UK had three bolt Chairs and that outnumbered the GWR/WR', I realise such is true, but at one time, if a branch - as opposed to magnum opuses such as Ken Payne's great works - was to be modelled, invariably, whether 4mm or 7mm it was oft a GWR/WR BLT. This then begs the further question, when C&L brought out its range of - more accurate - flexi-track in 7mm why didn't they do a GWR/WR version......and the same could be argued for Marcway too. In addition, after buying Peco 'Points' over the years such reveals the amount of variation in them and what appears to be at some level 'continuous improvement' (may be in manufacturing terms - but not in terms of the customers' needs and wishes, not to mention accuracy and fidelity to the real Pt Way) - I'm just a mug punter    so its not for me to fathom these things.

 

That's where we are at to date and we are now awaiting on samples and further advice and info

 

Here's an infomercial type video from NR - bless them a nice little video that I came across just as I was finishing this Post - there seems to be some confusion/updating with the terminology used in the video too (what chance do us modellers have at getting it right  ) one of my remits, upon returning to RT, was NSB for Track Renewals ie Switch and Crossings etc at RT Kings Cross HQ (less said about RT the better!);-

 

 

Photos to follow soon.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited July 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[John R Smith]

Thanks for that thoughtful post, CME, and for the really useful video. This business of terminology is interesting and controversial!

 

When I worked on BR in the early 1970s, first on the PW gang and then as a shunter, I noticed that the PW men did indeed  just talk about "switches" and "crossings", but now and then would refer to the whole assemblage as "points". So when I was at Dawlish Warren one day and idly watching an up express go by, I saw something rather amiss and hastily reported a "broken crossing nose" to our Ganger.

 

Whereas when shunting the yard at Newton Abbot, the driver of the pilot (an 08) would tell me to "set the points for the loop" (and I would do my best to oblige). All of the train crews seemed to use the term "points". And of course signalmen and S&T engineers do use the term "facing point lock".

 

But I have to say that I never heard anyone on the railway use the terms "turnout" or "frog".

 

John

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Thanks for that thoughtful post, CME, and for the really useful video. This business of terminology is interesting and controversial!

 

When I worked on BR in the early 1970s, first on the PW gang and then as a shunter, I noticed that the PW men did indeed  just talk about "switches" and "crossings", but now and then would refer to the whole assemblage as "points". So when I was at Dawlish Warren one day and idly watching an up express go by, I saw something rather amiss and hastily reported a "broken crossing nose" to our Ganger.

 

Whereas when shunting the yard at Newton Abbot, the driver of the pilot (an 08) would tell me to "set the points for the loop" (and I would do my best to oblige). All of the train crews seemed to use the term "points". And of course signalmen and S&T engineers do use the term "facing point lock".

 

But I have to say that I never heard anyone on the railway use the terms "turnout" or "frog".

 

John

Hi John,

 

You are welcome thanks for your thoughtful reply, it's always good to hear from someone who has actually done the job and knows what is what.

 

The terminology is confusing isnt it! 

 

I was Acting AACM at Bristol (BTM & B&E House) for awhile (seconded and as part of a training scheme) and so I was track-side for a fair amount of time and there were references to 'Point-Motors' track-side and in meetings, yet the engineers that were the ACM's and AACM's and at head office didn't call them Points but called them 'Switch & Crossings'. I think I am more confused about the terminology these days than I was as a kid! LOL!

 

I agree, 'Frog' is, I am sure a modellers' term (or from across the 'pond'?  ), RT & NR seemed to have started using the term 'Turnout' in more recent times - I was taught to use the phrase 'Switch and Crossing' and that was the case up until the late 1990s?, yet S&C now seems to apply to the constituent, component parts of the 'Turnout'....confused everyone? Yep, me too!

 

Kindest regards,

 

CME

Edited July 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Giles]

Certainly the various manufacturers of narrow gauge railway items producing everything from locos, coaches, wagons track, assembled points, (...and everything!) that were sold for industry or colonial work - referred to them as 'frogs' in their catalogues (which can still be found on line), so the origins are pretty old and wide-spread.

[John R Smith]

Certainly the various manufacturers of narrow gauge railway items producing everything from locos, coaches, wagons track, assembled points, (...and everything!) that were sold for industry or colonial work - referred to them as 'frogs' in their catalogues (which can still be found on line), so the origins are pretty old and wide-spread.

 

Giles

 

I completely agree with you, the term "frog" is old and there are lots of 19th century references, particularly as you say in catalogues of narrow gauge and mining railway equipment. What I was saying is that the term was not in use on the full-size railway in the south-west during the 1960s and 1970s - which is not to say that it did not exist elsewhere.

 

John

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Certainly the various manufacturers of narrow gauge railway items producing everything from locos, coaches, wagons track, assembled points, (...and everything!) that were sold for industry or colonial work - referred to them as 'frogs' in their catalogues (which can still be found on line), so the origins are pretty old and wide-spread.

Hi Giles,

 

Thanks for that insight, it's an interesting fact, one I wasnt aware of, even with a passing interesting in NG - as you say it would appear to be a fairly ancient term then.....

 

Giles

 

I completely agree with you, the term "frog" is old and there are lots of 19th century references, particularly as you say in catalogues of narrow gauge and mining railway equipment. What I was saying is that the term was not in use on the full-size railway in the south-west during the 1960s and 1970s - which is not to say that it did not exist elsewhere.

 

John

.......I agree, even up the the 1990's 'frog' wasnt used within earshot (WR/RTGW) and even when I worked/trained at Waterloo, Derby, York and Kings Cross I never heard it uttered in those places/regions either. It would seem that the term/word frog is ancient and now modern in terms of railway modelling - it makes one wonder of its true origins.

 

Thanks for Posting fellas interesting stuff!

 

Kindest to all,

 

CME

Edited July 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Guest Isambarduk]

"It would seem that the term/word frog is ancient and now modern in terms of railway modelling - it makes one wonder of its true origins."

I don't know this for certain but I have always just assumed that it was so called because of the likeness to the frog in a horses hoof.  This seems logical given that early tramways were horse-drawn and most people of the time would have been very familiar with the underneath of a horse's hoof - as anybody today who has owned or worked with horses will soon tell you!
 

I am very willing to be contradicted and put right.   David

Edited July 9, 2016 by Isambarduk

[Simond]

I'm sure we've been here before, and the horse hoof is the link. I'd have to go looking, but I'm betting it's here in RMWeb.

 

The word does seem to be a "real railway" term, not just a "Modellers' expression", although far from universal.

 

Best

Simon

[CME and Bottlewasher]

"It would seem that the term/word frog is ancient and now modern in terms of railway modelling - it makes one wonder of its true origins."I don't know this for certain but I have always just assumed that it was so called because of the likeness to the frog in a horses hoof. This seems logical given that early tramways were horse-drawn and most people of the time would have been very familiar with the underneath of a horse's hoof - as anybody today who has owned or worked with horses will soon tell you! I am very willing to be contradicted and put right. David

 

Hi David thanks for that, I hadnt heard that term either and I have been around horses in the past-my dad was a groom at one time....

 

I'm sure we've been here before, and the horse hoof is the link. I'd have to go looking, but I'm betting it's here in RMWeb. The word does seem to be a "real railway" term, not just a "Modellers' expression", although far from universal.

Best Simon

Thanks also Simon one learns something new every day!

 

Atvb to all,

 

CME.

 

PS Sorry about formating mobile device <roles eyes>

Edited July 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All

 

Well not a lot to report as life has kept me busy in other ways including endeavouring to sell my car.

 

After levelling up the support plates for the girder-bridge and adding additional plates, thoughts have turned to how to 'lock' the bridge into place in terms of alignment and keeping it pinned down. As the bridge isnt lifting per se (it will however be lifted and packed away at the end of each session) - which could cause problems if there is a problem with a train on the other-side of the line, there is always the panic button though! - I need to make sure of track alignment and levels etc. I have some bits of brass tube, pins etc and also a couple of cheap Wickes 38mm Barrel Bolts and they are quite discreet and if mounted underneath at diagonals and pins and tube opposite (or in the middle of the bridge), if I have to mount them atop then I shall modify the lever atop as it is quite chunky - they often fall off of these cheap Barrel Bolts (but these seem pretty firm....typical LOL!  ). As Im only a back street mechanic, I am, of course making this up as I go along, so no elegant, clever drawings etc. from yours truly   I have, for the electrics, some exterior quality plugs and sockets made by Bosch for motor-vehicles  We have the viaduct sides almost ready.....so photos to follow.

 

Some videos of my old 'Structures' and 'Civils'' colleagues real world works

 

 

 

The new extension to the line is going ahead and is being incorporated into the current 'works' programme. So I have samples in hand for alternative baseboard construction techniques/products and I shall order track accordingly - RC of points etc may prove more problematic.....more to follow.

 

Kindest regards to all,

 

CME

Edited July 21, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Simond]

Loved that video.

 

It's stuff like that that made me go into engineering, though that is civvies and I'm a mechie.

 

Best

Simon

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Loved that video.

 

It's stuff like that that made me go into engineering, though that is civvies and I'm a mechie.

 

Best

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

Yes they are rather good arnt they - I found them fascinating and hoped that they would entertain you guys whilst I get my act together. I have been involved in railway bridge works before and the things that are being done on the motorways and railways with heavy lift cranes etc is remarkable. One of my father's friends was a director in Baldwin's Cranes (Baldwin as well as being associated with the Knights Templar et al, means 'bold/brave' 'friend'). I can remember 'Mr Baldwin' he was a skilled pilot too. I hasten to add that when responsible for spending tax-payers' money I never had to award any contracts to 'Baldwins Crane Hire Ltd.'

 

http://www.baldwinscranehire.co.uk/public/downloads/liebherrlg175015.pdf

 

Hopefully photos of our bridge works to follow when I get the time.

 

Thanks for looking and kind regards in haste.

 

Kindest,

 

CME

Edited July 25, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

Circling back to Post # 276.

 

Trackbed and Baseboard Issues Post Winter;-

I went back and re-checked the track and trackbed - as I had some spare time and inclination, plus the weather was good - that looked to be problematic.

 

I am pleased to report that things had improved as the soil had dried out a bit - which was a relief - there was no cross-axling or the like but there was still an anomaly which took a while to puzzle out. I found that there was a 'divet' in the board/roofing felt and so after running a coach and an Easy Build bogie across such, I located - by feel - the exact location (it was hard to see, even with a straight edge and spirit level etc. - plus in the last two years my eyesight aint what it was)

 

I cut some galv coated shim to size, coupled with a cut down fish-plate both were slid under the track webbing and sleepers providing support and in a linear way, a spot on bubble on the miniature spirit level. The galv shim (an old piece of plate/bracket) was painted with my stick to anything matt black paint. When these areas are settled I tend to 'ballast' over such with Chick-grit held in place with watered down said matt black paint. When all of the track is down I may ballast all of it - if time and inclination permit - and whether ballasted or not, I shall weather the whole lot with a suitable dirty track type weathering mix.

 

Its nice to see lots of birds in the garden again and the Blackbirds love sitting on the layout and sunning themselves however whilst the they sit on the layout they also now shi leave little 'presents' on the line - which are not conducive to smooth running! LOL!

 

I digress - there is some negative Cant on the problem boards, due to the movement of the baseboards in wet/cold weather - its a smidgen of a bubble out in/on the spirit level - yet when running a coach and other stock around the curve there was no obvious 'lean' in the stock so all looks, aesthetically, fine and runs well too. When I checked the Cant that I had introduced on the curve from the bridge end that was still fine, with 95% of the boards being level and true, but there was, even on the higher boards, some movement with a little adverse Cant - but again this isnt noticeable when running stock - only when measured.

 

I shall monitor such things and hopefully if all stays like this then I shall be well pleased and there will be no need for further remedial work - fingers crossed.

 

Track laying in the garden needs to be accurate to avoid costly accidents - yet the counterpoint to this is that we are laying miniature track in a real world environment, even if the boards are well made!

 

Finally;-

I have come up with a couple of solutions for the control of the three extra Switches in the garden, ie for the new continuous run, I am awaiting two manufacturers to get back to me so as to see if their products are garden proof. These solutions are not my preferred options, but could be a simple (or simplish) compromise/solution.

 

Now we have two more days of rain.....I may get some time to modify some Peco Switches in readiness.

 

ATVB to all,

 

CME

Edited August 1, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

Track, track and more track!

 

I have purchased the additional Peco Switches ( 2 x 'Y's' and 1 x LH) and another box of BH Flexi, plus ordered a couple of motorised chassis and splashing cash, so as to be able to progress the layout and to avoid a run on, soon to be in short supply, motors et al. - so the purchase of a couple of 'wants' will have to wait now........

 

SM32!?

In addition, and as an aside, after 14 years of garden railway use, several of our H&BLR Peco Tie-Bars (Stretcher-Bars) have given up the ghost along with a few rivets, so the first live-steam special of the year ended up falling foul of these issues - so two SM32 Switches are on order, with a view to repairing the others - so that dad can keep the basics of the H&BLR running whilst I work out how to fit some new Tie-Stretcher-Bars (probably using copper clad/GF sleeper strip I suspect). TBF I am surprised that the Peco Tie-Bars lasted this long as in SM32 they use the same Tie-Bars as on their 7mm Switches and others had complained of breakages within 2-4 years or so of fitting outdoors, so 14 years is good going  - we have maintained the track well though - and NOW they are popping/splitting/breaking, all at once, all over the layout  . I shall Post details of any repairs and modifications on our H&BLR Thread. But I digress!

 

Modifying Peco 7mm 'FS' Switches

I have, in a few minutes here and there, started to modify the Peco Switches for outdoor use - at least the ones for the new continuous circuit that is.

 

The problem with these Peco Switches is that they were initially designed to be able to cater for both 7mm FS and Coarse Scale 'O' Gauge - with wide tolerances and such devices as adjustable Check-Rails, which are now, BTW, merely cosmetic and do very little to keep the current standard of FS wheel-sets in check when passing through the Crossing  V. It is best practice to ensure, when making a new 'V' to endeavour to make sure that stock traverses such without the need for Check-Rails.

 

The Peco Switches appear to also be an amalgam of several styles (prototype regions etc) of Switches, with some elements appearing to be to ex GWR/WR and some not, suffice to say, as stated elsewhere there have been numerous manufacturer modifications to these points over the years and some more anomalies seemed to have appeared with the latest purchase in that the 'Y' Switches appear to have the Switch Rails too short with additional thinning of the Stock-Rails and an a bigger gap between the two - when compared to previous versions - but they seems to run smoothly and wont look out of place in the garden. Looking at this 'mod', I fairly am sure that this is due to the inclusion of, to the BH range - ala the FB range of Switches - a 'ramp' which accommodates the PL33 Peco micro-switch, so the Timbers, Stock-Rails and Switch-Rails all appear to be modified in that area. What is the betting that when I modify all of these Peco Switches, Peco will bring out an accurate upgraded track system for 7mm BH rail?! LOL!!

 

Modifications for me mean improving the Crossing V as certain items of rolling-stock of mine (and for others judging by viewing layouts on DVDs and at exhibitions) seem to fall down the 'hole in the middle' also - for indoor Switches - removing the angled Sleepers and replacing such with a straight Timber, also making improvements to the Stretcher-Bar and removing the 'ramp' and /or 'dummy facing point-lock is in order'. For the outdoor points as steel and other similar materials corrodes and the plastic Tie-Bars seem to last - plus I shall be manually operating these three Switches for now, so shall be mounting a micro-switch within - I shall leave the 'Ramp' and 'Tie-Bar' as is for the sake of longevity.

 

The Peco Switches come with a nice representation of a prototypical Splice Rail in the Crossing V (which, sadly, will have to go, so as to improve performance of the Crossing V et al.) and as modellers we can further replicate such with a mock-splice and indeed I have seen this done to improve the Crossing Vs on 7mm FS Peco Switches, with the splice extending well into the Peco Crossing arrangement (which is moulded from the same plastic as the Timbers and uses Nickel Silver for the rails) and often afloat mid-air. There is a possible problem with that approach however in that, as I mention, the Crossing V almost becomes suspended in mid-air (which isnt prototypical - but no matter if it improves performance) and it can lead to derailments and 'wrong-lining' due to the longer lead-in of the mock splice etc. etc.

 

My preferred version is to mitre the Crossing V and have it placed directly above the appropriate Timber (as far as is practically possible as these modifications are a compromise for what is an amalgam of a turnout) and not suspended in mid-air, even with a lump of Peco plastic beneath it.

 

Oh for finer standards! But I am neither diligent or clever enough so I live with 7mm FS standards and that means striking a happy medium in terms of where the Crossing V sits and how fine a tolerance I need to work to - relative to various items of stock (including some light weight bogies and troublesome trucks ) that I have built and own (RTR et al).

 

I have various bogies, white-metal, plastic (some ultra light) et al. and I have tweaked the back-to-backs to just inside of the 7mm FS standard and just outside so as to provide some tolerance, the smoothest running bogies are my Easy Builds, the finest tolerance of wheel-sets appear to be those by Peartree, their wheel sets, which I have fitted to some rather nice ABS bogies (when fitting these wheel-sets their standards seemed to be more akin to S7 standards than 7mm FS and where a bit of a challenge to fit), really do find fault with track. Whilst these bogies and my Shark will ride over Peco standard Switches in the straight ahead when diverging they really do seem to fall down the 'hole in the middle'. In addition, when setting up a modified Crossing V these two items of stock really do test one's patience as they will find all of the faults, which in the longer term is most helpful - sadly due to the construction methods used by Peco it wont be possible for me to set up a jig for the Crossing V's so I have made up some crude drawings by tracing the modified parts.

 

The work of straightening the Check-Rails and modifying the Crossing V - without modifications to the Tie-Bar or soldering - takes minutes rather than hours, the first I did, took more time as I needed to set the standard/fettle with which to work to, but the modifications, I feel, are well worthwhile in terms of improved reliability and aesthetics ( I know that Alan T, of this parish, has made some cunning modifications to his Peco Crossing Vs using plastikard to good effect, whereas, for, outdoors I had to resort to metalworking techniques  ). Suffice to say when creating the new Crossing V I gently rounded off the tip of the Crossing Nose and added a slight chamfer on both sides. The plastic 'platform' was cut to size/to suit, also allowing for tweaking - inwards - of the Crossing Check-Rail flares (the flares on all of the Check-Rails are, IMHO, all too OTT and look like caricatures - of course one must tweak them in accord with ones wheel/stock standards). 

 

Below; the top photo indicates a 'before and after', the following photo is a closer view of the Crossing V modifications and the bottom photo is a trial fitting of a Peco micro-switch.

 

I shall add a spot of solder to the Crossing V before soldering the connecting wire to the micro-switch, the next Crossing V will be to tighter tolerances - I made this one so as to trial various configurations.

 

That's pretty much it, took longer to write this than to do.

 

Kindest regards to all,

 

CME

 

Photographs are the copyright of the photographer and author of this Post 2016 etc.

Edited August 10, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Simond]

Neat work, I particularly like the micro switch installation! The check rails look loads better too.

 

It would take hours (well, maybe one) rather than minutes, but you can have any standard you like, if you bite the bullet and build your turnouts. And you choose the geometry, and you save money. All of which seem to me to be "killer advantages"!

 

I adopted 31.5mm gauge with the appropriately narrowed flangeways and, whilst it's early days, I'm very pleased with appearance and running, although these standards aren't appropriate for SM32 of course. I don't think that ply sleepers and C&L chairs would be my first choice for the garden, I'd go with copperclad and solder, with dummy chairs if the appearance warranted it.

 

Best

Simon

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Neat work, I particularly like the micro switch installation! The check rails look loads better too.

 

It would take hours (well, maybe one) rather than minutes, but you can have any standard you like, if you bite the bullet and build your turnouts. And you choose the geometry, and you save money. All of which seem to me to be "killer advantages"!

 

I adopted 31.5mm gauge with the appropriately narrowed flangeways and, whilst it's early days, I'm very pleased with appearance and running, although these standards aren't appropriate for SM32 of course. I don't think that ply sleepers and C&L chairs would be my first choice for the garden, I'd go with copperclad and solder, with dummy chairs if the appearance warranted it.

 

Best

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for the kind words and the reply - it's appreciated.

 

Some great ideas and by and large I agree........there is a big- 'J Lo' sized  BUT.

 

For me though, as I have mentioned before, I love looking at nicely laid track and yet the thought of affixing a 1000 chairs (for the Switches alone) and all of the other work turns me cold, I just dont have the time or inclination either at the moment, as life is filled with hospital appointments and all of the associated stress and frustrations (the medical profession really is, at this time, for a myriad of reasons, a mixed bag, I am sorry to say), this layout is taking way too long to build as life keeps getting in the way and now the H&BLR needs attention, but more strength to your elbow though Simon. 

 

Of course with 7mm FS standards we have a lot of, inherited, 'axle slop', I am slowly starting to add springing and compensation - not sure if I can or will retro fit though.

 

If this wasnt a garage-garden-garage line I would definitely adopt your philosophy in terms of standards for gauge, wheels etc.

 

Wooden sleepers and timbers in the garden, in 7mm FS or SM32? Also not for me, the quality of timber these days is poor and getting worse, more costly for the privilege too, creosote is only available in industrial quantities and only to those with a licence?? We have a creosote substitute but if applied near to our roofing-felt topping/ballast would, with its solvent base, 'melt' the roofing-felt (for solid wood sleepers). I am not sure what type of ply C&L use, but if you remember, we had no end of problems with ply sold as 'exterior quality' ie with weather and waterproof glue (for the baseboard tops), so I would be very nervous about using such as sleepering, plus, even with our little line, there would be approx 120' (?) of sleepers and chairs (which when the sleepers are a year or two old the chairs oft become loose - depending on affixing methods used - causing gauging problems). Also with ply certain solvent based preservatives will destroy the glue.

 

As I have written elsewhere Peco track isnt without its problems either as some batches werent made to the correct standard and the UV protection chems appear to have been left out of certain batches too (myself and several others fell foul of that one - track died, in sunlight within days!), but if one purchases Peco track and the sleepers are nice and shiny straight from the box, then there is a good chance that the track will last a long, long time. As I say the H&BLR is now 14 years old and using Peco track.

 

Sadly, Simon, once tried and tested methods are now no longer open to us due to the strange way in which the world - and business - now operates as prices climb, quality seems to fall and with a garden railway cheap and cheerful wont work now either.

 

I mention all of the above not in a 'why me way' (although there have been times when I must have thought such) but so as to help others by adding to the repository of knowledge and experience so to speak.

 

We are hoping to QS (Quantity Survey) the link baseboards soon with a view to using PVCu....or is is UPVc?? A calculated risk using plastic for baseboards but as others have trail-blazed one worth taking, I hope.

 

Kindest regards,

 

CME

Edited August 10, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Simond]

CME

 

I'm right with you on wood, and I would definitely stick to soldered copperclad outdoors. Of course, there's no advantage (apart from more realistic sleeper spacing) in building plain track, I'd use Peco flexi for sure. My experience, such as it is, is that it's fine, though I have heard of 'disasters'.

 

I find building pointwork, using Templot templates, to be quite therapeutic. Perhaps I'm just weird!

 

UPVC I think - ultra-high-molecular-weight poly-vinyl-chloride. Seems to work for windows & doors, and seems (touch wood!!!) so far to be maintenance free. I've not tried it for baseboards, looking forward to seeing how you get on.

 

Hoping your medical issues resolve themselves in the near future - in general, I find the people in the profession to be great, it's the system that's broken.

 

Best

Simon

[alant]

Neat work as Simon says, although I am not guilty of modifying Peco points you must be thinking of someone else!

 

Alan.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

CME

 

I'm right with you on wood, and I would definitely stick to soldered copperclad outdoors. Of course, there's no advantage (apart from more realistic sleeper spacing) in building plain track, I'd use Peco flexi for sure. My experience, such as it is, is that it's fine, though I have heard of 'disasters'.

 

I find building pointwork, using Templot templates, to be quite therapeutic. Perhaps I'm just weird!

 

UPVC I think - ultra-high-molecular-weight poly-vinyl-chloride. Seems to work for windows & doors, and seems (touch wood!!!) so far to be maintenance free. I've not tried it for baseboards, looking forward to seeing how you get on.

 

Hoping your medical issues resolve themselves in the near future - in general, I find the people in the profession to be great, it's the system that's broken.

 

Best

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for the sage advice and kind words.

 

I can see that, with all things being equal, track building could be therapeutic - so no you are not weird, the lovely thing about railway modelling is that it is a broad church and there is something for everyone and we have to focus on, by and large, we enjoy within the hobby.

 

Thanks for the kind words about the medical profession, I have friends who are retired surgeons and a GP, the system is broken as are some of the employees, the NHS has 'cultural' issues too. The GPs are having a rough time of it as well - it helps no one when such pressures are placed upon an organisation, the nurses et al do sterling work, hours above and beyond the call of duty etc etc. The NHS is being privatised - ala the police and military - through the back-door via outsourcing et al, my consultant (medical) friends tell me as much as has my partner's GP, Privatisation wont make it better, it will just net returns for those in 'the city'. The NHS is a wonderful resource that is being abused at many levels in many ways. But Ive strayed into politics and will get blackballed from the Order if I am not careful   

 

EDIT;-

I forgot to say that the various track-setting gauges that I have, don't like Peco Switches all that much due to the various plastic add-ons and protrusions etc. so each one of the Switches will almost have to be modified in a bespoke kind of way - but I think that the rewards/returns are well worth the extra effort. In this regard I see RTL track as akin to RTR stock in that minor improvements to something that has started off pretty good is well worth the effort, time and effort wise. I wouldn't want to ever guild a lilly as that would be diminishing returns but there is, IMHO, nowt 'man-made' that cannot be improved upon - it just depends on one's POV and skill levels (knowing where to start and stop being of equal importance).

 

Kindest to all,

 

CME

Edited August 11, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Neat work as Simon says, although I am not guilty of modifying Peco points you must be thinking of someone else!

 

Alan.

Sorry Alan, thought it was you, when we were chatting at Aylesbury (you modified the Crossing Vs with plastikard??)......mind you my head is all over the place these days! LOL!

 

ATVB

 

CME

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Forgot to say....its probably Posted elsewhere on RMW though........here is a Link to THE SWINDON RAILWAY FESTIVAL (10th and 11th Sept. 2016), some nice looking layouts in attendance for those interested in the GWR and WR.

 

http://www.steam-museum.org.uk/events/Pages/Swindon-Railway-Festival-2016.aspx

 

Also the Swindon and Cricklade Railway Society are looking for donations so as to help restore their Thumper which suffered from a terrible fire (the last thing I read/was told was that it was due to arson and that their insurance company wont cover the loss of the 205 or associated signalling equipment and tools etc), well worth a visit too, a small concern of honourable hard working fellows;

 

http://www.swindon-cricklade-railway.org/

 

Kindest,

 

CME

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

I promise some loco 'eye-candy' photos soon, I realise that for some track maybe boring or mundane, yet to my mind, if baseboards and track arnt right, ie nigh on perfect, then everything else is a waste - and could quite literally end up being a waste of money too ie if the foundations are not 'right'. It's like building a decent castle (BTW I am the mother father in the following sketch)  

 

 

 

A closing note; I have seen that sharply curved/angled Check-Rails seem apparent on industrial small radius type 'Point-Work' and some NG lines, but not exclusively so, the Peco Switches are 'Medium Radius' and so have a certain length and elegance to them and thus reducing the 'flares' to the Check-Rails seemed appropriate, so whilst the Switches are not strictly prototypical - even when modified - they will work better both mechanically and electrically as well as, at a cursory glance at the very least, look better too, with a modified/replaced Timber or two and Stretcher-Bars, and especially when ballasted too. Apart from another photo or two, as and when I modify track, that's pretty much it on my current track-work philosophising.      

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Photos+of+railway+points&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=677&tbm=isch&imgil=d-TdNl2bjIR6zM%253A%253BbxSjNVign4YKBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wis.co.uk%25252Fandy%25252F16mm%25252Fcheap_points.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=d-TdNl2bjIR6zM%253A%252CbxSjNVign4YKBM%252C_&usg=__d04TXkvV9moVo2rzJVFbUdrBrkc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwis6YylibnOAhWoL8AKHfXNA-gQyjcINQ&ei=dUisV-zaH6jfgAb1m4_ADg#imgrc=d-TdNl2bjIR6zM%3A

 

Thanks for looking .

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited August 11, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

A very quick update......still progressing with work on track.

 

Whilst fettling the Check-Rails on a couple more Switches I damaged a Chair - it is possible to straighten the 'Flares' on the Check-Rails without removing them and I strongly advise doing this on the Peco 'Y's as there is less room for manoeuvre! Lesson learned.

 

I went to get out my latest batch of Peco Chairs only to find that they have 'bolt-holes' but no 'bolts' - bizarre, a manufacturing fault or other issue?? - is anyone really likely to, or to want to, add 'bolts' to Chairs? I found a photo of some previous Peco Chairs and sure enough there were 'bolts' present, so I must try and find that 'stash' as I had put them away somewhere safe.....I have seen the same with SM32 Chairs (on Check-Rails), whereby a couple of Peco Switches required repairs due to wear and tear, so the Chairs were solvent welded in place, with modified track pins used as the 'bolts'. 

 

Anyways, if I cant find them, fuse-wire or similar will have to suffice as 'bolts' - the moral of the story is dont damage a Chair in the first place!

 

Kindest regards,

 

CME

Edited August 14, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher