Worsely Works Dreadnoughts

[Coach bogie]

I have been in discussion with Allen Doherty of Worsley Works in relation to his new range of Dreadnought body kits. I am sure most of us are aware that the CPL/Hayes kits are still available (I have several myself).

 

Here is an opportunity for the GWR modelers to have a say on the final version of the D42, C24 and E77 body kits. I have suggested that to avoid un-necessary duplication that the Worsley Works be produced as a later post mid 1930's condition with the toplights plated over. This should be of greater interest to the many post war GWR/WR modelers I follow on RMweb.

 

The plating can be produced in two ways.Shown below is the 'simple' version with the panel represented by a half etched line. Alternatively it could be supplied as  half etched area with some solder holes and supply an overlay. This is the same way modern kits often supply the vent panels over doors.

 

 

 

I would be grateful for members opinions and  will pass them on via this thread, or email Allen at Worsley works direct.   enquiries@worsleyworks.co.uk

 

 

One other variation, that is not a duplication, is the provision of the D42 as a Brake Third Buffet/Tea car. In 1913, two D42 standard brake thirds number 3467 & 3472 were rebuilt with extra doors by replacing two compartments as a kitchen/buffet area and reclassified as H2 (reusing the diagram number from the clerestory diners which had long been rebuilt to other diagrams by this time). They remained in this condition until 1936 and 1937 respectively.

 

 

 

As far as I am aware, this is the first time any of the conversions have been provided in 4mm. I have ordered as it gets around the challenge of wanting dining facilities in shorter trains, a challenge many of will have.

 

I have no connection with Worsley Works other than a satisfied customer and a provider of research for the H2/D42.

 

Allen is always open to suggestions. If there is a coach side etc that you have an interest in then let him know. I read lots of comments regarding toplights etc and Allen produces many of these. If the you want is not in his list then ask!

 

Current GW list in 4mm here

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by Coach bogie

[twiggy1969]

i would go for the later ones at some point

[PenrithBeacon]

When I saw the topic title I thought we were in for a LYR 4-6-0! Yet more GWR, never mind.

 

Regards

[Siberian Snooper]

Any GW coaches in pre 1927 condition

 

SS

[Coach bogie]

Any GW coaches in pre 1927 condition

 

SS

 The Hayes/CPL, C24, D24 and H8 are in pre 1927 condition. That was one of the issues as they were not really uasable for post WW1 with the vertical panelling in the lower section that was removed early on.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi Mike

 

Ok I'll narrow it down a bit more 1920 to 1926.

 

I have the full range of the Hayes/CPL Dreadnoughts in the to do pile.

 

Cheers SS

[Coach bogie]

The Dreadnoughts are now available from Worsley Works. I have just received my H2/D42 conversion. Although not listed on the website it is available for the same price as the D42/C24 and E77 listed. Added bonus it comes with a floor unit.

 

The H2/D42 assembles with out any issues and Worsely Works have thought about ease of construction with alignment holes for the recessed doors. Just put a couple of pins through the holes and the doors are held in correct position for fixing.

 

 

 

The D42 and C24 are available with the later bottom panel arrangement of one single, uninterupted panel. The Haye Developments D42, C42 and H8 are all etched in as built condition with all the vertical panel beading. Unfortunately, these were all removed very early in their lives. In addition, Worsley can also produce with theplated over  toplights.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I have put a similar note in GWR Rolling Stock

 

[drduncan]

I have been in discussion with Allen Doherty of Worsley Works in relation to his new range of Dreadnought body kits. I am sure most of us are aware that the CPL/Hayes kits are still available (I have several myself).

 

Here is an opportunity for the GWR modelers to have a say on the final version of the D42, C24 and E77 body kits. I have suggested that to avoid un-necessary duplication that the Worsley Works be produced as a later post mid 1930's condition with the toplights plated over. This should be of greater interest to the many post war GWR/WR modelers I follow on RMweb.

 

The plating can be produced in two ways.Shown below is the 'simple' version with the panel represented by a half etched line. Alternatively it could be supplied as  half etched area with some solder holes and supply an overlay. This is the same way modern kits often supply the vent panels over doors.

 

C24 Third-2.jpg

 

 

I would be grateful for members opinions and  will pass them on via this thread, or email Allen at Worsley works direct.   enquiries@worsleyworks.co.uk

 

 

One other variation, that is not a duplication, is the provision of the D42 as a Brake Third Buffet/Tea car. In 1913, two D42 standard brake thirds number 3467 & 3472 were rebuilt with extra doors by replacing two compartments as a kitchen/buffet area and reclassified as H2 (reusing the diagram number from the clerestory diners which had long been rebuilt to other diagrams by this time). They remained in this condition until 1936 and 1937 respectively.

 

D42 - H2a.jpg

 

D42 - H2-2.jpg

 

As far as I am aware, this is the first time any of the conversions have been provided in 4mm. I have ordered as it gets around the challenge of wanting dining facilities in shorter trains, a challenge many of will have.

 

I have no connection with Worsley Works other than a satisfied customer and a provider of research for the H2/D42.

 

Allen is always open to suggestions. If there is a coach side etc that you have an interest in then let him know. I read lots of comments regarding toplights etc and Allen produces many of these. If the you want is not in his list then ask!

 

Current GW list in 4mm here

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I'd be very interested in sides for the 1913 buffet/tea car conversion!

Duncan

[Coach bogie]

I'd be very interested in sides for the 1913 buffet/tea car conversion!

Duncan

 I am very pleased with mine. Here is where I am up to

 

 

The verticals were removed upon conversion. They are certainly not on the GA that was consulted for the etch so you should be safe with the same etches as these. The earliest image I have found is 1927 in Great Western Scene by Maurice Earley, which is what mine is being based on.

 

I never imagined anyone would produce this vehicle, and hats off to Worsley Works for the enthusiasm to produce variation like this.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[drduncan]

It looks great! Hats off to you and Alan at Wordsley Works. I'll definitely have to order one. Do you have details of the floor plan?

Duncan

[Coach bogie]

Now that summer is winding down, I have had time to finish of the H2/D42 Dreadnought tea car. It makes up in a really nice and unusual vehicle. Thanks again to Allen for producing this variant.

 

 

Back on with the E73 and D30 clerestories also from Worsley Works - again a nice straight forward build. A much improvement on the Blacksmith ,especially the roof design in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited September 1, 2014 by Coach bogie

[Rail-Online]

And here is one of them leading this train

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/h7d0f9b26#h7d0f9b26

 

Tony

[Skaran]

These are really good. Sadly I'm not likely to get one as I would want them in pre WW1 condition.

[The Fatadder]

I'm thinking about getting a C24 to build, and was hoping to confirm what extras are needed on top of the of the kit? I'm assuming the usual 70ft roof, vents and corridors from Comet, frogmoor battery boxes, which bogies are needed?

 

I have two questions on the construction as well if I may, I see Comet style bolt holes at the end of the chassis but nothing to match to on the body. How is the body mated to the chassis?

 

Re the tumblehome, I assume that you form it first and then solder on the folded up door units (which presumably match the curve?)

 

I know I really should get the comet sunshine compo first, but the Dreadnoughts just look so much more interesting

[Coach bogie]

I'm thinking about getting a C24 to build, and was hoping to confirm what extras are needed on top of the of the kit? I'm assuming the usual 70ft roof, vents and corridors from Comet, frogmoor battery boxes, which bogies are needed?

 

I have two questions on the construction as well if I may, I see Comet style bolt holes at the end of the chassis but nothing to match to on the body. How is the body mated to the chassis?

 

Re the tumblehome, I assume that you form it first and then solder on the folded up door units (which presumably match the curve?)

 

I know I really should get the comet sunshine compo first, but the Dreadnoughts just look so much more interesting

You will struggle with a comet roof due to the roof formers at the door ends. I use old Blacksmith brass roof sections of David Geen plastic ones.

 

Mine above uses a Comet 70ft underframe with the side sections modifies to miss the end/centre doors, though the Worsley kit does come with a Comet style underframe. You will need different truss rods , mine are from David Geen sold as spares. The C24 usually uses a Fishbelly but there were later substitutions with Americans later on.

 

Tumblehome formed first using ends as a guide.

 

Worsley Works C24 better than the Hayes ones for post WW1 as they do not have the vertical beading that was removed.

 

Good luck

 

MIke Wiltshire

Edited November 24, 2016 by Coach bogie

[The Fatadder]

Food for thought thanks,

 

I will crack on with my large window first to start with and then decide if I am ready for a bigger challenge.

 

The Worsley Works kit was what I had in mind given the plated Toplight and later beading. Will see if the ends can be reprofiled to match the comet roof. I'm guessing coopercraft don't have any blacksmith rooves (I don't recall seeing them at Wells) and would prefer a metal roof

Edited November 24, 2016 by The Fatadder

[Horsetan]

....I'm guessing coopercraft don't have any brassmasters rooves (I don't recall seeing them at Wells) and would prefer a metal roof

 

I didn't know Brassmasters produced a suitable roof. Blacksmith, surely?

[The Fatadder]

I didn't know Brassmasters produced a suitable roof. Blacksmith, surely?

I'd blame the autocorrect, but I think that's a bit of a stretch

Now corrected...

[ianmaccormac]

Just seen this as it is current.

In 2005 I drew for MARC Models several types of these carriages for etching. I don't know if they are still available but they were

C27, D43, E80 and E81.

Mike used to sell them as 'kits' as well as made up.

The current MARC Models website seems to be redeveloped but there is a number to call if you are at all interested.

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

[Coach bogie]

Just seen this as it is current.

In 2005 I drew for MARC Models several types of these carriages for etching. I don't know if they are still available but they were

C27, D43, E80 and E81.

Mike used to sell them as 'kits' as well as made up.

The current MARC Models website seems to be redeveloped but there is a number to call if you are at all interested.

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

From memory those diagrams are Concertinas

 

D42/C24/E77/H8 are the Dreadnoughts.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Fatadder]

I have finally gotten around to ordering a D42, i didn’t see any option on the website (and forgot to ask) so it’s arrived with unplanted top lights and full heading.  I’ve only managed to find one photo in Russell (with plated toplights). But the concertina on the figure below still had the toplights so I am assuming it is possible a dreadnaught  would have lasted… 

 

other than Mike’s previous comment about using either Geen or Blacksmith roofs, has anyone found an alternative roof that’s available to buy?

 

I had hoped to use the MJT one, but it would need a lot of material removing for something which would still be a bit narrow.

[Coach bogie]

You got me thinking about alternative roof sections. I started to solder up a Worsley Dreadnaught sleeper. I find you can use the Comet roof. You need to cut off the top of the spacer/compartment end at eaves level. The top of the door section needs cutting back or folding over to clear the roof. You need to saw/file a gap into the roof inner section to clear the spacer.  It also gives you a strengthening section to put door eaves on. It does fit. Well Allen does call his etches 'scratch aids'.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited July 13, 2021 by Coach bogie

[The Fatadder]

How did you find the width? I thought the comet roof looked narrow when held against the Worsley end.   Glad to see a potential solution, I want to add at least a Dreadnaught third (and looking at that sleeper if it made it to 47 I rather fancy one of those as well!)

 

Really like the look of the sleeper!

[Coach bogie]

13 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

How did you find the width? I thought the comet roof looked narrow when held against the Worsley end.   Glad to see a potential solution, I want to add at least a Dreadnought third (and looking at that sleeper if it made it to 47 I rather fancy one of those as well!)

 

Really like the look of the sleeper!

I taped the sides to the roof to get the width and then soldered the sides to the inside of the spacer/compartment ends. there is a very slight overlap, less than a mm,  which will be filed away. I did this before trimming the spacer end to allow the roof to fit over the top. pressure on the roof holds everything in place whilst you solder. I found it worked best with the spacer end flat on the bench and the sides/roof stood on end.  Pressure on the roof holds everything in place whilst you solder.

 

I will have to check when I get home, but from memory they were not used on sleeper services after 1934 a the newer steel sides stock was in regular use. The bogies are a challenge as they use American style 6 wheel bogies. I do have a set of cast ones in stock but I was going to use them on a 70ft diner I have yet to build. This one will use Hornby 6 wheel Pullman bogies from Peters spares. Much more economical, ready assembled and they come with wheels.

 

https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x6193-pullman-6-wheeled-coach-bogie-with-pickups-pk2.ir

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Fatadder]

Having finally gotten around to building the body on my D42 brake third, I need to find some bodies for it.   I am assuming when built they would be on American bogies, but did any end up on different types later on?

other than the one small photo in Russell I am really struggling to find photos to work from