Bachmann FFA/FGA early container flats

[Durranhill]

This is on ebay at the moment - Class 47 GFYP with an UP Freightliner at Carlisle - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-Rail-Class-47-1894-Carlisle-circa-1971-3-Rail-Photo-/271542472997?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item3f39315125 .

 

Stewart .

[Porcy Mane]

I've managed over the years to collect quite a large amount of "research material" from various places re the early freightliner flats. Just looking through some of it there is a hand written note as follows;

Single freightliner flats. RIV Couplings and 1' 10" Hydraulic buffing gear both ends

B601999 FGF                                     1966

B602206 FFB Converted 1977          1967     Renumbered B601997 on conversion.
B602231 FFB Converted 1977          1967     Renumbered B601998 on conversion.

RDB602548 FFB-Research Dept.     1969    Renumbered B601996 on conversion. (FJA) To revenue traffic circa. 1980.

Conversions carried out at Temple mills.

 

 

No mention is made of types of brake fitted.
I can't vouch for any authenticity as no sources are quoted but it matches up with the Silsbury/Collins tables quite well.

Porcy

Edited July 26, 2014 by Porcy Mane

[Fat Controller]

I've managed over the years to collect quite a large amount of "research material" from various places re the early freightliner flats. Just looking through some of it there is a hand written note as follows;

 

Single freightliner flats. RIV Couplings and 1' 10" Hydraulic buffing gear both ends

 

B601999 FGF                                     1966

 

B602206 FFB Converted 1977          1967     Renumbered B601997 on conversion.

B602231 FFB Converted 1977          1967     Renumbered B601998 on conversion.

 

RDB602548 FFB-Research Dept.     1969    Renumbered B601996 on conversion. (FJA) To revenue traffic circa. 1980.

Conversions carried out at Temple mills.

 

 

No mention is made of types of brake fitted.

I can't vouch for any authenticity as no sources are quoted but it matches up with the Silsbury/Collins tables quite well.

 

Porcy

B is air-braked, vacuum piped. F is something to do with AFI (Automatic Freight Inshot) vacuum brakes, which were vacuum brakes with a faster reaction time.

[eastwestdivide]

Hello SM46 - you prompted me to dig out some old notes, and I've also got sightings (from the early 80s) of FGB, i.e. vac-piped outers, running from 601062-91, some of which later converted back to FGA. Unfortunately, that's all the info I can find - no locations or traffic info.

There's enough sightings in that series to suggest we saw them a fair bit, so I might try and dig out some trip notes from Barking or Stratford as likely locations... don't hold your breath though.

Quoting myself from earlier, a bit more info on this range of FGB vacuum-piped outers:

The diagram books from Barrowmore have FG004C (formerly diagram 1/84 or 1/084) as FGB, part of lot 3596 (on page 21 of Book 320 part 2). Vacuum piped, but otherwise similar to normal FGA "outers", i.e. with a bar coupling at one end.

Brakes are described as "air disc, vacuum pipe & hand screw". There seems to be no corresponding diagram for a possible FFB vac-piped inner wagon.

Digging out some ancient printed sheets circa 1981 from David Larkin, that range of numbers that I observed, 601062-91, corresponds to lot 3596, built 1966, diagram 1/083 or 1/084. He listed them as FGA, although I wrote in FGB next to it way back when.

 

Looking at FFA lot numbers, normally a batch of FFAs would be built alongside a batch of FGAs with a lot number one higher or lower (to make a 5-set), but there's no corresponding one-different lot number for lot 3596, so you could surmise that they were built as pairs, not sets of five. The number range would create 15 x 2-wagon sets, i.e. 30 wagons.

Further into the realms of guesswork, a paired set vacuum-piped might make sense as an experiment to serve places off the main Freightliner network with small loads of boxes via the vacuum-braked freight network.

 

Now what we need is a picture of a 2-wagon freightliner flat in a vac-braked train...

 

Edit: Paul Bartlett has one of this batch with (I think) a visible vac pipe 601084 here: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/h3eaa5774#h3eaa5774

 

As an aside, only 2 lot numbers away, 3598 is one of the first lots for freightliner brake vans (coach conversions).

 

Obscure research department over and out.

Edited July 29, 2014 by eastwestdivide

[Mark Saunders]

Does anyone know anything about Tartan Arrow on Freightliner (as per the Triang container) and the CCT (from Lima)!

 

I have seen a picture of a train with containers and CCT's in but do not know where or if the containers were on AB Freightliner flats or VB Condor flats?

 

Mark Saunders

[Fat Controller]

Does anyone know anything about Tartan Arrow on Freightliner (as per the Triang container) and the CCT (from Lima)!

 

I have seen a picture of a train with containers and CCT's in but do not know where or if the containers were on AB Freightliner flats or VB Condor flats?

 

Mark Saunders

They were a Scottish carrier, who used rail for the London- Scotland run. They also had some Stanier 50'brakes carrying their livery.

Here are some news items from the period about them:-

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/14th-april-1967/31/like-clockwork-tartan-arrow-liner-train-service-st

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/22nd-october-1965/28/tartan-arrows-london-glasgoi-went-with-br

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/10th-january-1969/22/glasgow-paris-freight-express-starts-on-monday

There still seem to be companies registered under the name, but whether they have any link, I couldn't say. 

[hmrspaul]

Quoting myself from earlier, a bit more info on this range of FGB vacuum-piped outers:

The diagram books from Barrowmore have FG004C (formerly diagram 1/84 or 1/084) as FGB, part of lot 3596 (on page 21 of Book 320 part 2). Vacuum piped, but otherwise similar to normal FGA "outers", i.e. with a bar coupling at one end.

Brakes are described as "air disc, vacuum pipe & hand screw". There seems to be no corresponding diagram for a possible FFB vac-piped inner wagon.

Digging out some ancient printed sheets circa 1981 from David Larkin, that range of numbers that I observed, 601062-91, corresponds to lot 3596, built 1966, diagram 1/083 or 1/084. He listed them as FGA, although I wrote in FGB next to it way back when.

 

Looking at FFA lot numbers, normally a batch of FFAs would be built alongside a batch of FGAs with a lot number one higher or lower (to make a 5-set), but there's no corresponding one-different lot number for lot 3596, so you could surmise that they were built as pairs, not sets of five. The number range would create 15 x 2-wagon sets, i.e. 30 wagons.

Further into the realms of guesswork, a paired set vacuum-piped might make sense as an experiment to serve places off the main Freightliner network with small loads of boxes via the vacuum-braked freight network.

 

Now what we need is a picture of a 2-wagon freightliner flat in a vac-braked train...

 

Edit: Paul Bartlett has one of this batch with (I think) a visible vac pipe 601084 here: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/h3eaa5774#h3eaa5774

 

As an aside, only 2 lot numbers away, 3598 is one of the first lots for freightliner brake vans (coach conversions).

 

Obscure research department over and out.

Full build details of the Freightliner Flats and containers were published by Roger Silsbury within the Collins book mentioned earlier. All of the ex coaching stock brake vans are in a table. A surprisingly large number - 60 of them.

 

Paul

 

Does anyone know anything about Tartan Arrow on Freightliner (as per the Triang container) and the CCT (from Lima)!

 

I have seen a picture of a train with containers and CCT's in but do not know where or if the containers were on AB Freightliner flats or VB Condor flats?

 

Mark Saunders

 

Mark

 

In Modern Railways, September 1965 - by then on Freightliner flats, although the design of container suggests they operated on the Boplate conversions earlier.

 

I'll send you a scan if you are interested.

 

Paul

 

PS Never known how to do a double quote before, not sure I know how this happened!

Edited July 29, 2014 by hmrspaul

[58050]

They'd look great behind an EWS 56 with some Hoyer containers on 6M57. Now I just need the containers...

[Downendian]

Not "quite" a prototype shot, but of sorts.

I've collected a small number of wagon D plates for my back garden pub, one of which is FFA B602120. I've always wanted to put models of these prototypes on my layout.

I've readjusted my preorder to Hattons for 6xFFA and 2xFGA twin packs. When first announced the FFAs were erroneously advertised as twin packs, but in fact will be single wagons at around £25 each.

Neil

[Downendian]

Returning to earlier discussion on Freightliner prototype trains from the 1970s

From 1979 Bristol WTT

2100 SSuMX Mossend- Bristol West Depot 4V10 (Parkway 0524)

0210 MX Stratford-Danygraig 4V66 (Parkway 0531)

1855 FO West Depot-Coatbridge 4S38 (Parkway 1918)

1835 SSuFX West depot-Sighthill 4S38 (Parkway 1854)

1610 Danygraig-Stratford 4E70 (Parkway 1955)

2055 SSuX Swindon-Pengam 4C03 (Parkway 2203) (from 2/7)

 

Neil

Edited August 6, 2014 by Downendian

[Durranhill]

2 pics of Brush type 4's with early Freightliner trains -

 

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/10807059893

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/11065790474

 

Just found a few more -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/8333293679

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/6240630613

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevs_trains/1793473997

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevs_trains/2935603038

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3871194390

 

Stewart .

Edited August 8, 2014 by Durranhill

[Pandora]

Was it the freightliner wagons which had open ended-axle boxes?

There was a yellow triangular cover on the end of each axle,   the sight of a slow moving train of such wagons, with the peculiar effect of the rotating axle ends  I would have to look away to avoid feeling dizzy

[brushman47544]

A short formation that'll be easy to model https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/11840160784, but does anyone know what livery/branding the container with the blue and grey bands carries, please?

[George Woodcock]

Hello

 

     I'm not certain this is correct but I think these were Freightliner containers that worked to Ireland at that time. There are pictures on Paul Bartlett's web-site that lead me to think this. Hope this helps. I like the picture very much as it gives me justification for a similar train on one of my layouts.

 

                                                                                                                                                                        Cheers

 

                                                                                                                                                                                 George

[Jack374]

Hi all

I don't know if it's been brought up anywhere else on this thread/RMweb, but when did these operate up until in regular service?

 

I've seen piccies from 2005, but were they still in use longer?

 

Jack.

[Fat Controller]

Hi all

I don't know if it's been brought up anywhere else on this thread/RMweb, but when did these operate up until in regular service?

 

I've seen piccies from 2005, but were they still in use longer?

 

Jack.

There are still some in use on Infrastructure traffic; 2005 sounds about correct for Intermodal/ Bin-liner workings.

[Glorious NSE]

2005 is correct I think, effectively bumped off by the new FEAs.

 

Some idea's for later uses - the SRL drain train is likely to be a good fit:

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/P-Tops-codes/PFA-SRL-Drain-cleaning-train#!/

 

And I *suspect* the following could also be done, but will need at least a bogie swap as they are ex Binliner flats - depending on what Bachmann tools:

 

FDA "Salmon" track panel carriers:

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FDA-paired-Salmon-track-panel#!/

FJA "Tench" material carriers:

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FJA-Tench-bogie-engineers#!/

[Michael Delamar]

56084 leaves smoke hanging over Aintree containerbase as it departs with 4O95 Freightliner to Southampton on 30th March 1985 by Jjm2009, on Flickr

[cravensdmufan]

Wow, great photo Michael!  Thanks for posting.  Those were the days!  Roll on the Bachmann models!

[brushman47544]

Wow, great photo Michael!  Thanks for posting.  Those were the days!  Roll on the Bachmann models!

 

... and as it happens Hornby - 56084 is the Large Logo Class 56 now long overdue.

[eastwestdivide]

If anyone's after an excuse for a really short train of these, here's a photo from 1985 at Stratford of a single FGA outer between a match wagon and brake van. Of course now you have to model the match wagon too...

 

B462733 (labelled LINER TRAIN MATCH WAGON) and 601408:

 

[Titan]

Was it the freightliner wagons which had open ended-axle boxes?

There was a yellow triangular cover on the end of each axle,   the sight of a slow moving train of such wagons, with the peculiar effect of the rotating axle ends  I would have to look away to avoid feeling dizzy

 

I remember some did, some did not. One of those variations during the build depending on which bearings were used. Another variation was some had axle mounted disc brakes, some had wheel mounted.

[ess1uk]

some great info on this thread.

i will be getting some of these to save messing about with my Hornby set

Edited November 19, 2014 by ess1uk

[hmrspaul]

There is an excellent article about the [small] Dudley terminal in the October Backtrack by Paul Jeavons. It describes the timings and shunting of the various trains, the loads that were developed for them and the road vehicles that were owned by Freightliner - as well as some of the private operators whom also accessed the site.

 

Paul

[Shed]

When are these due?