RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2014 Hi Dave Yes I have the photos but wasn't going to post them as they are your copyright. If you are happy for me to upload them I can do over the next few days. Cheers Paul Hi Paul, Sure - go ahead, if it helps others I'm happy to share. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2014 Hi all, This is a really interesting and useful topic! Thanks for all the input so far - please feel free to carry on... Now, I suppose I have to get on with the part built PAA BRTE that I got as far as making formers for - then stopped as I was struggling to get the plasticard skin to stick to without deforming. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Hi all, This is a really interesting and useful topic! Thanks for all the input so far - please feel free to carry on... Actually i was about to abandon it - I really need to do some timetable research for my German holiday at the end of the week, and having used it as a learning exercise for the cutter, without any need for the wagon, I may just do the final piece to sort out my geometry error on the lower hopper, then leave the whole lot to one side. I *suppose* I should really build one of the 'production' sets just to prove its OK. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Can you post in either here or the cameo thread how you found working from the BR diagram to making the cutting vector drawing? I am only asking as my birthday is coming up in a few months and I might be using that as a excuse to get one of these myself. I am undecided at the moment as to if it would be useful or not. As you have only just started using it, it may be good to find out how easy or not you found it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Actually i was about to abandon it - I really need to do some timetable research for my German holiday at the end of the week, and having used it as a learning exercise for the cutter, without any need for the wagon, I may just do the final piece to sort out my geometry error on the lower hopper, then leave the whole lot to one side. I *suppose* I should really build one of the 'production' sets just to prove its OK. Jon Looking great Jon, thou please don't abandon this project! I'm not up to were you are as i've had a lot of stuff get in the way the last few weeks + i'm working every hour god sends but i'm hoping to crack on with this shortly again Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Can you post in either here or the cameo thread how you found working from the BR diagram to making the cutting vector drawing? I am only asking as my birthday is coming up in a few months and I might be using that as a excuse to get one of these myself. I am undecided at the moment as to if it would be useful or not. As you have only just started using it, it may be good to find out how easy or not you found it. I kind of just replicated what I would do manually. I rescaled the drawing to 4mm and then in end profile removed the thickness of the cladding, plus the thicknes of the base and drew trhat in Sillouette Studio, I did turn the grid on, set the grid squares as small as they would go, and used snap to grid, but there were places where being able to snap to a ,25 or .5mm would have been useful, and these have been done very carefully by eye at high magnification, so that even if they are wrong, at least the error is small. Looking great Jon, thou please don't abandon this project! I'm not up to were you are as i've had a lot of stuff get in the way the last few weeks + i'm working every hour god sends but i'm hoping to crack on with this shortly again As I said I'm off to the Meiningen loco works open day this coming weekend, and RMweb live/Derby open day the following week, so I've got almost no more time to look at it for a few weeks, but the sheets have been laid out to allow a semi-commercial production, and I might make a few available as a way of offsetting the cost of the machine, its cutters and the mountain of plasticard I seem to have used playing. I'm quite impressed by how much 'presence' these wagons have, they are quite beefy, although not when mounted on traditional open W irons as here. Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2014 Hi Jon Very impressive. You say you used the Sillouette Studio, that is the programme that comes with the machine? Is there a need for another vector programme in your opinion? Might need to spend some money and get me Silhouette Portrait plotter cutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hi Jon Very impressive. You say you used the Sillouette Studio, that is the programme that comes with the machine? Is there a need for another vector programme in your opinion? Might need to spend some money and get me Silhouette Portrait plotter cutter. Clive, Silhouette Studio is the software that comes with the plotter, but you can download it for free from the Silhouette America website - my netbook doesn't have a CD/DVD drive. I'm undecided if I need something better - I suspect I will, because I can't draw accurately less that 1mm tolerance, but it may be the newer version of the software will do that better. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thanks for showing this off Jon. I've just bought one recently in Yolo's recent 15% off sale. Looks very useful and I just need to get to grips with it (and learn how to use Inkscape better). Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted September 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Hi I've made a start on uploading Dave's (beast66606) photos here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/3369-pab-anglesey-coke-hoppers/ Cheers Paul Edit: All now uploaded. Edited September 2, 2014 by PaulCheffus 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Interesting, thanks to Paul and Dave for taking the trouble to share. What's the story with the two types of end (with & without 'skirt' ) a quick survey suggests at least 10 have the skirt over the brake gear on the ends 12100/01/04/05/07/08/09/10/13/16 was this a later mod? I hope I saved V1 without skirts before I modified it. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 and they seem to be breeding like Tribbles... Prototype 3 with revised sides Jon 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2014 and they seem to be breeding like Tribbles... Prototype 3 with revised sides PABcutterprototypeB001.jpg Jon Quite common at Hamworthy were they then Jon?!! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I've just finished plotting a 20thou 'production' sheet for the bodysides (at least an hour and a half of plotting time, but I am now confident enough that I'm prepared to walk away from it whilst it does its thing), and I'll have both flat-pack and semi-built models with me in Coventry on Sunday if anyone wants a look at what's possible. Jon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) By way of a start on some instructions... keep the corners of the spacers, they make quite useful reinforcing gussets for the body frames, and the little ones form the brackets for the walkways. Parts B,C,D and E are all the same and interchangeable with each other. I&J are the floors of the sub assembly Jon Edited November 15, 2014 by jonhall 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) Next part of the assembly turns to the 20 thou sheet, there are two types of body sheeting, with and without the skirt at the end - each sheet has two of each - extend the edge scores to the edge of the sheet and fold and snap out the body, being careful not to snap along a fold line. Once the sheeting for a single body is free, you can take out the V's from between the two hoppers, and at the excess material at the hopper ends - you might need to go over the score with a knife at the apex of the V. Ideally you will score along the fold lines on the rear of the sheet to create a V shape, which the plasticard will 'close up' as its folded. I used an old chisel punch on edge (dragged toward me), but a micromark panel scriber would work as well. Once that is done its fairly easy to fold up the body. You can glue the two body spacers into the sheet - I would just do the top facet at this point and allow it to set hard like this - you could also add the two ends (A&F) - don't forget to put the scribed letter innermost! And again use the snapped our triangles as bracing. I've engraved marks where I think the spacer/former should sit. Once those joints are hard you can work your way around the rest of the shell - I've taped the sides where they meet the floor, but actually two or four rubber bands are better. If you find the middle of the sides bend away from the spacers, you can add a pencil between the rubber band and the middle of the sheet to push it home. Not shown in photos - I forgot I was supposed to be taking them! - Parts G&H form the outer ends of the hoppers, these will need to be chamfered at top and bottom edges to fit between parts A and B or E&F -I have found on a couple I've needed to shorten them by a mm or so to get a better fit. Part K is the wagon floor - its tight for an etched W iron, but if you intend to use the Cambrian plastic type it won't fit - you will need to cut a wider floor from 40thou plasticard. I've used Evergreen 4mm U channel for the solebars - cut to length and glued on - you need to make sure that they are parallel or slightly 'toe-out' at the bottom edge otherwise the etched W irons won't rock very freely. Two buffer breams are provided below part J - it might be easier to drill before separating them - when it comes to separating them you may need to grip one with a set of smooth jaw pliers to bend and snap it. Underneath the floor, part L (multiple) fits across the wagon from side to side as a former. Part M(multiple) then glues to it parallel to the solebar and then part N(multiple) fits across the wagon - these will nee fettling once dry to sort the corners out. The four hopper filling hatches are the rectangles alongside parts I&J Whilst I said keep the small triangles from the bottom corners of parts B,C,D,E, to form the brackets for the walkways, I've not given you enough. My recommendation is to cut more from a strip of Evergreen 40thou thick, 4mm wide strip. I think its easiest to glue all the brackets to the walkway (which is supplied a little overlength) and then attach the sub-assemblies to the wagon. I've added a little bit of bracing to the ends of the hoppers using 80thou channel and 60x60 strip. Edited November 16, 2014 by jonhall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 With those 6 now in the paint shop having a coat of primer... Over the Showtrain weekend I plotted several sheets of both 40&20thou, If you would like a sheet of each (i.e. enough for 4 wagons, but NOT including any extra Evergreen strip I have mentioned) they will cost £20 plus postage at cost - please drop me a personal message. Thanks, Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2014 Having seen Jon's Silhouette Portrait bashing these out last weekend and the man himself making them, I was very impressed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Wow great update and very informative guide / instructions! Really like how they have turned out fela, i would definately like atleast one sheet if thats ok? I've had a go at 1 and learnt some new methods in buying those tools you mentioned so thankyou very much for continuing with this post, i'm even now soldering white metal kits together which are a bit scruffy but i'm learning and there only genesis kits so a good wagon to learn how to on. Cheers again Rich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 All now in primer J 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 All now in primer J Love the pics in primer chief, can't wait to build some and add some nice white metal parts to finish the PAB's of nicely. I'll get a custom decal pack made up for these hoppers so if anyone is buying any of Jon then i'll post the link here so you can then decal them up for that extra custom finish 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hi Jon, I have been following this thread with interest and although I never saw much of the real wagons running I was granted permission to go and visit the wagons when they were stored at Anglesey Aluminium in 2007 as at the time we were considering doing an etched brass kit but nothing came of it in the end. But we did manage to bag some photos of the wagons in the long sidings next to the connection to the mainline. I can make my photos available plus my notes from the two days I went with my colleague to visit them. But a rake of those on a trans-Pennine diversion via the Hope Valley line instead of Diggle sounds quite nice slight bending of the truth mmm and a Grid on the front would look rather nice. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Paul, thanks but I've reached the end of the road with these - they were only really a distraction as Mike has pointed out - not often seen at Hamworthy. With the exception of one of the 'production' wagons which I'll keep for myself, the remainder of those built plus the sheets of flat pack I turned out whilst demo'ing last weekend are all available for sale at the right price. I've learnt how to use the Sillhouette and shown how easy wagon scratchbuilding can be. Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 After my weekends demoing, I have a few sheets of PAB available . PM for details. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hi Jonhall Just wondering were you demo in gat DEMU over the weekend ? With the cutter and seemed to be doing some of these wagons Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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