Chris T's photo archives

[russ p]

It's about time we paid a visit to Bressingham, courtesy of Alan Bloom.  At the end of August 1968 Alan invited the Bury St Edmunds MRC to put on a model railway display at his establishment and, as a railway-mad 16 year old, how could I not go along?

 

680902 Bressingham Gwynedd.jpg

 

Out in the gardens here's a narrow gauge 0-4-0ST "Gwynedd".  I don't know much about narrow-gauge locomotives so if anyone can give more information then please feel free. 

 

680902 Bressingham Thundersley.jpg

 

Inside the shed where the club had its display, here's LTSR 4-4-2T "Thundersley" in all her glory.

 

680902 Bressingham 70013 (2).jpg

 

"Oliver Cromwell"  had just arrived after having hauled the "15 Guinea Special".  She was towed to Diss station where she was loaded on to a low-loader for transfer to Bressingham.  There is a low bridge under the railway line at Diss and the only way she could get under the bridge was by letting the tyres down on the low-loader. 

 

680902 Bressingham 70013 (1).jpg

 

Of course, there was no way I wasn't going to clamber all over 70013.  Here is yours truly in the cab.

 

Chris Turnbull

 

Didn't 70013 go under it's own steam to Norwich? I understood this was the last 'normal' steam working on BR

[Chris Turnbull]

Didn't 70013 go under it's own steam to Norwich? I understood this was the last 'normal' steam working on BR

 

Yes, she did work under her own steam to Norwich but I think she was towed to Diss.  I can't easily find anything on the internet and my old magazines of the period are in the loft.

 

Chris Turnbull

[eurotrack]

Evening All

 

 On a very early post Chris showed  680528 D8203 and D8209 Bury St Edmunds.   anyone any idea what the tank wagons in the train are   or where the train is going to or from?

 

Keith

[EddieB]

"GWYNEDD" (#252) is an example of a "Quarry Hunslet", supplied in numbers by Hunslet to quarries in North Wales.  Several have been/are being preserved (including some repatriated from Canda).  Gwynedd was built in 1883 (Hunslet b/n 316) and supplied new to Lord Penrhyn's Quarry Co.

 

I haven't been to Bressingham for a couple of years, but I understand "GWYNEDD" has now been put in static preservation inside the "museum" there.

Edited November 27, 2014 by EddieB

[31A]

Belated thanks for the Chesterton Junction pictures, Chris!  It used to be a very good vantage point with a variety of traffic to be seen.  I've taken several pictures there myself, albeit somewhat later than the ones you've posted.

[EddieB]

It has been mentioned on here before, but between 1969 and 2007 Barnwell Junction hosted the 1923-built Pullman coach "Montana", which has since been moved to Sussex.  I'll leave it to ChrisT to post a better photo than my 1974 Instamatic b&w "effort".

 

Sorry Eddie but that's something I never photographed.  I know the Pullman you mean, I saw it regularly, but never thought to photograph it.  If you want to post your photo then please do.

 

Chris Turnbull

 

Ok, this is my photo from April 1974.  Had I been aware that the carriage stayed there so long, I would have returned with slightly better equipment!

 

Some more information can be found here: http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2224

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Whilst we are in preserved, sorry, heritage railway mode this is the North Yorkshire Moors Railway on 31st October 1970.  At the time I was a member of the Newcastle University Railway Club and we had a society steam locomotive which we ran on the nascent NYMR.

 

 

And this is her, an oil-fired industrial locomotive No.3 which is all I can remember or have noted.  If anyone can shed more light on the locomotive I would be pleased to hear from you.

 

 

At the time the railway was not open to the public but was running trains for members of the NYMR.  Whilst not all of us university lads were members of the NYMR we were allowed to ride the trains as we were a affiliated society.  This is Class Q6 63395 blasting up the grade from Grosmont to Goathland.

 

 

The conditions were wet and slippery and the sanders on the locomotive were not working.  The results from the locomotive were quite spectacular and some NYMR members had to resort to hand sanding to allow the train to get to Goathland.

 

 

The Q6 did eventually arrive at Goathland and this is her awaiting departure on the return leg.

 

 

And here she is again.  No signalling in those days you'll notice.  I assume it was "one engine in steam" working.

 

 

43 years later this is what the NYMR has become - one of the best preserved railways in the country in my opinion.  No "one engine in steam" working on 5th October 2013 and featuring locomotives I never dreamed would be seen at Grosmont.

 

Chris Turnbull 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Chris Turnbull

[EddieB]

"No. 3" is E Borrows no. 37 of 1898, an 0-4-0WT formerly of Wallsend Slipway.  It is now in store at Marley Hill on the Tanfield Railway.  You did well to see it in steam!

[Chris Turnbull]

Evening All

 

 On a very early post Chris showed  680528 D8203 and D8209 Bury St Edmunds.   anyone any idea what the tank wagons in the train are   or where the train is going to or from?

 

Keith

 

What Eurotrack is referring to is the second photograph in post #9.  I know there are lots of wagon experts out there so if anyone can help I would be most grateful.  Eurotrack is a friend of mine from the Ely MRC and this is, I suspect, his first post as he has just joined RMWeb on my recommendation.  So come on all you experts, help required please!

 

Chris Turnbull

[Clive Mortimore]

What Eurotrack is referring to is the second photograph in post #9.  I know there are lots of wagon experts out there so if anyone can help I would be most grateful.  Eurotrack is a friend of mine from the Ely MRC and this is, I suspect, his first post as he has just joined RMWeb on my recommendation.  So come on all you experts, help required please!

 

Chris Turnbull

Hi Chris and Eurotrack

 

Sorry too busy looking at the BTHs. De har alle synes at have grå tagene hr Heljan (They all appear to have grey roofs Mr Heljan).

 

Most of the tank wagons are Class A 45ton GLW, these are early vacuum or dual braked examples. Most were later rebuilt so they only had air brakes, and TOPs coded TTA. The first tank looks like a Class A 35 ton wagon (the Airfix model). They are not carrying a visible company badge which was very uncommon for the 1960. A company badge would help identify the lead tank as only a few companies used the 35 ton wagons.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Fat Controller]

What Eurotrack is referring to is the second photograph in post #9.  I know there are lots of wagon experts out there so if anyone can help I would be most grateful.  Eurotrack is a friend of mine from the Ely MRC and this is, I suspect, his first post as he has just joined RMWeb on my recommendation.  So come on all you experts, help required please!

 

Chris Turnbull

They look like standard 45t GLW tanks (except the first, which looks like the earlier 35t GLW type) carrying Class A liquids, as Clive has just said... The two goods vans are barrier vehicles, mandatory for Class A liquids at this time whilst the brake van is there to reduce the shunting (a double run-round) at the terminal; there'll be another one at the other end. The absence of identifying labels is unusual, as the oil companies were keen on advertising their wares at this time; I wonder if they could belong to, or be leased by, Carless, for traffic from Harwich, as they went for painted lettering on the tank, rather than the separate boards used by others.

[david.hill64]

"No. 3" is E Borrows no. 37 of 1898, an 0-4-0WT formerly of Wallsend Slipway.  It is now in store at Marley Hill on the Tanfield Railway.  You did well to see it in steam!

Having fired and driven a Borrows well tank - Windle - when it was at the Middleton, I can only say that anyone who has ever seen a Borrows engine in steam has been very lucky! If I was booked fireman when this engine was rostered, I knew I had a tough day ahead. Happy Days!

[Chris Turnbull]

On 29/11/2014 at 08:49, Clive Mortimore said:

Sorry too busy looking at the BTHs. De har alle synes at have grå tagene hr Heljan (They all appear to have grey roofs Mr Heljan).

 

 

 

I think you'll find it's a trick of the light, Clive.

 

 

Here's preserved D8233 at Mangapps Farm in the mid-90s which clearly shows it with a black cab roof.  However, there is a colour photograph of this locomotive at Finsbury Park depot in 1969 on page 21 of Colin Boocock's "Railway Liveries: BR Traction 1948-1995" ISBN 0-7110-2737-4 which clearly shows it having a green cab roof.  Whether this loco originally had a black cab roof when built and was repainted or the preserved loco has been incorrectly painted I don't know but the cab roofs weren't grey.

 

 

Here's my 7mm model of a BTH Type 1 based the many photographs and measurements I took of the preserved D8233 complete with black roof.  Colin Boocock's book wasn't published when I built this model so I based it on the information I had.  If it is wrong it will remain wrong!  The model is scratchbuilt from brass and nickel silver and the bogies are whitemetal castings made from my own patterns.  It is powered by a Portescap RG7 motor mounted on one axle of the front bogie with a Delrin drive to the other axle of that bogie. 

 

It occurs to me that some of you may like to see some of the detailed photos I took of D8233.  If you do then please let me know and I will make this the subject of future post.

 

Chris Turnbull

Edited May 23, 2022 by Chris Turnbull

[Chris Turnbull]

Whilst rummaging through my photographs today I came across these two shots both of 81017 at Preston on 21st June 1978.

 

 

 

These were taken just over ten years after the first and second photographs in post #163 and show the changes made on that time.  I didn't realise that I had these otherwise I would have posted them earlier!

 

Chris Turnbull

Edited May 23, 2022 by Chris Turnbull

[Clive Mortimore]

I think you'll find it's a trick of the light, Clive.

 

D8233.jpg

 

Here's preserved D8233 at Mangapps Farm in the mid-90s which clearly shows it with a black cab roof.  However, there is a colour photograph of this locomotive at Finsbury Park depot in 1969 on page 21 of Colin Boocock's "Railway Liveries: BR Traction 1948-1995" ISBN 0-7110-2737-4 which clearly shows it having a green cab roof.  Whether this loco originally had a black cab roof when built and was repainted or the preserved loco has been incorrectly painted I don't know but the cab roofs weren't grey.  The English Electric type 1s (Class 20s) had grey cab roofs but the BTH type 1s (Class 15) didn't.

 

Model D8233.jpg

 

Here's my 7mm model of a BTH Type 1 based the many photographs and measurements I took of the preserved D8233 complete with black roof.  Colin Boocock's book wasn't published when I built this model so I based it on the information I had.  If it is wrong it will remain wrong!  The model is scratchbuilt from brass and nickel silver and the bogies are whitemetal castings made from my own patterns.  It is powered by a Portescap RG7 motor mounted on one axle of the front bogie with a Delrin drive to the other axle of that bogie. 

 

It occurs to me that some of you may like to see some of the detailed photos I took of D8233.  If you do then please let me know and I will make this the subject of future post.

 

Chris Turnbull

Hi Chris

 

I like your model. When D8233 was at Mangapps all sorts strange of things happen to her, the wrost being the removal of a large part of the wiring, which I believe has only just be renewed.

 

Can we disagree on freindly terms about BTH cab roof colours. I think the example you referred to is grey in the copy of the book I have in front of me.

 

Anyhow here is a few I built well before Heljan. All plastic card with Hornby pancake motors, except one that has a Lima pancake motor.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

 

Can we disagree on freindly terms about BTH cab roof colours. I think the example you referred to is grey in the copy of the book I have in front of me.

 

Of course we can Clive but I would be interested to know if any one else can shed some light (no pun intended) on the subject.

 

Fine models, by the way.

 

Chris Turnbull

[New Haven Neil]

Hi Chris, love the thread.

 

After just seeing the photo of number 3 on the NYMR, I wondered if you remember Mike Henderson from the Uni railway club - he's a friend.

[Chris Turnbull]

Hi Chris, love the thread.

 

After just seeing the photo of number 3 on the NYMR, I wondered if you remember Mike Henderson from the Uni railway club - he's a friend.

 

Thanks for the comment.  I must admit that the name doesn't ring a bell but then my time at Newcastle was a blur of sex, drugs, rock 'n roll and Newcastle Brown Ale!

 

Chris Turnbull

[New Haven Neil]

It was worth a punt!  He's still involved with railways.

 

Liverpool had the same agenda.....  ;-) ..but no brown ale.  I don't like it anyway!

 

I'm a couple of years behind you, but your photos are so reminiscent of my youth too, except mine are a lot worse - Zenit E and cheap film, they are all blue/purple now.

[Chris Turnbull]

Liverpool had the same agenda.....  ;-) ..but no brown ale.  I don't like it anyway!

 

To be honest, neither did I but it was the "in" drink so I forced myself...

 

Chris Turnbull

[Chris Turnbull]

Didn't 70013 go under it's own steam to Norwich? I understood this was the last 'normal' steam working on BR

 

I've now retrieved my 1968 Railway Magazines from the loft and have found this:-

 

October under the heading "'Oliver Cromwell' back in Norfolk" it says "Following the working to Carlisle with British Railways final steam special on August 11, 'Britannia'  class Pacific 70013, 'Oliver Cromwell', ran under its own steam via Rose Grove and Doncaster to Norwich - its original base in 1951 - reached at 13.30 next day.  Soon after dawn on August 16, No. 70013, along with restored London Tilbury & Southend Railway 4-4-2 tank No. 80, 'Thundersley', arrived hauled by D5579 at Diss.  Thence both locomotives went by road transporter to Bressingham Hall, three miles distant, on indefinite loan by British Railways for preservation."

 

In the "Locomotive Notes" section of the same issue it says "Oliver Cromwell returned light engine some 15 min. behind the train [the BR Special on August 11th] and proceeded to Lostock Hall for servicing; after which it departed at 21.30 and ran to Doncaster shed via Blackburn, Copy Pit, Todmorden and Wakefield with a Healey Mills crew and a Leeds locomotive inspector.  The locomotive was en route to Bressingham for preservation."

 

This was not the last steam working, however as "Class '5' 4-6-0 No. 45428 was noted in steam at Leeds (Holbeck) on August 21.

Edited 30/11: On page 686 of the November issue there is a photograph of Class "5" 45428 making a water stop at Derby on August 24 while working under its own steam from Holbeck to Tyseley.

 

The December issue notes that "On the evening of September 19, six weeks after the end of steam on B.R., standard class '5' 4-6-0 No. 73050 was noted running under its own steam along the Calder Valley line in an easterly direction."

 

There may be more sitings of steam locomotives working under their own power after the end of steam reported in some 1969 Railway Magazines but I have left them in the loft.

 

Chris Turnbull    

Edited November 30, 2014 by Chris Turnbull

[Chris Turnbull]

While we are in "end of steam" mode a visit to the northwest might be in order.

 

The area operated by steam traction gradually reduced in 1968.  Regular steam traction over Shap ceased at the turn of the year, Standard Class "4" 75027, the last steam banking locomotive at Oxenholme retired on 4th May, Newton Heath and Bolton sheds ceased rostering steam traction on 30th June and Patricroft shed  closed completely on 1st July.  That left just three sheds with a live steam allocation in July '68, Lostock Hall, Rose Grove and Carnforth.

 

It was to the latter shed that I set my sights in early July so come with me now and witness steam traction before regular steam working ceased on 4th August 1968.

 

"10A Carnforth: The shed is on the west side of the Barrow line north-west of the station.  The yard is visible from the line.  Turn left outside the station into Warton Road, and after about 150 yards left again over a footbridge.  This leads to the shed.  Walking time 5 minutes." Ian Allan British Rail Shed Directory.

 

 

It's the 9th July 1968 and here we see the footbridge that leads to the shed which offered a good vantage point from which to view the goings-on.  Locomotives on display are Fairburn 2-6-4T 42073, Standard Class "4" 75009 (behind), Ivatt 2MT 46441, Class "B1" 61306 "Mayflower" and Stanier Class "5" 45025 in the foreground.

 

 

Looking southwards from that bridge we have a good view of the coaling tower, ash plant and water tower with the shed itself to the right.  Note the line of 16 ton mineral wagons loaded with loco coal, in particular the size of the coal.  Locomotives in this shot are Fairburn 2-6-4T 42085 and the tender of Class "B1" 61306.

 

 

Looking in the other direction this is 75048 on the turntable.  In the background can be seen withdrawn steam locomotives.

 

 

One of those withdrawn locomotives is seen here, Class "9F" 92223.

 

 

It wasn't all steam locomotives, however.  This is brand new English Electric type 4 (Class 50) D431, a squeaky clean sensitive diesel stored in a filthy steam shed.  This is one reason why there was so much trouble with some of the diesels in the early days.

 

More from Carnforth and Rose Grove over the next few days!

 

My thanks to Jonny777 for vetting these photos.

 

Chris Turnbull  

Edited May 23, 2022 by Chris Turnbull

[Porcy Mane]

Excellent body of work. Thanks kindly for posting them.

 

Porcy

[uax6]

Interesting shots. I'm a bit puzzled by the shots of the fairburn tank in red oxide, and what seems to be a red standard tender engine behind it. Surely it's a bit late for them to be painted, or are they being tarted up for preservation?

 

Andy G

[jwealleans]

From Wikipedia:  A group of enthusiasts chaired by Dr Peter Beet formed the Lakeside Railway Estates Company, with the idea of preserving both the line and Carnforth MPD, to provide a complete steam operating system.^[4] Negotiations with BR resulted in an agreement to buy the majority of the Lakeside branch, and at Carnforth rent out: the former wagon works; west side sidings; and 3-roads of the former MPD. Beet formed Steamtown Railway Museum Ltd,^[4] and the resultant visitor attraction Steamtown Carnforth became a mecca for steam enthusiasts, then facing a national ban on steam traction on the BR network. With the assistance of the Lancaster Railway Circle, an increasing number of steam engines arrived at Steamtown from 1967 onwards.