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I'm interested in your CIE Laminates build Kirley.

I've actually built one from the 'full' Worsley Works set of parts but I recently bought a pair of the old Tri-Ang/Hornby Thompsons thinking that I might be able to use the sides for some GNR(I) type coaches; the square windows are very typical of many GNR coaches.

 

Can I ask you to clarify two points please?

1. You say you "..cut of the ends and the excess coach body at either end". Was that from the Worsley Works coach body or perhaps the Hornby chassis?

2.Did you use Worsley Works ends?

 

Many thanks,

 

Glover

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Can I ask you to clarify two points please?

1. You say you "..cut of the ends and the excess coach body at either end". Was that from the Worsley Works coach body or perhaps the Hornby chassis?

2.Did you use Worsley Works ends?

 

 

 

Thanks for your query Glover.  I only got the coach sides and the battery box etches from Allen.  I reduced the length of the Hornby coach and used Comet ends which meant I had to bend the sides in to fit to the narrower Comet end.  I went for using a 'plastic' chassis & roof to reduce the overall weight of the model as I found having a rake of full brass coaches was putting a heavy load on the locomotive especially where you have inclines.

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AEC Railcar Set in GNR livery.

.....I was lucky to get the last of the GNR Railcar paint from Phoenix Paints ....

Presumably anyone now building or wanting to build a GNRI Railcar will now be unable to paint it correctly since the paint shade is no longer produced?

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I don't know. One could try the old fashion way of mixing paints until the correct shade is obtained.

I never like mixing paint as I can never (for some reason) get it the same twice - i understand the companies in  days past had the same problem.

However, on our model of the  1953 "Royal Train" which was painted at Dundalk, I used Precision Paints M291 (military - navy) Oxford Blue, and Humbrol Gloss Ivory for the cream and they satisfied me OK.   I used Humbrol Oxford Blue on one coach but I thought it looked a bit greyish by comparison.(NCC Chairman's Saloon, middle coach in set, sometimes you notice the difference, sometimes you don't)

 

post-4092-0-33102800-1446742961_thumb.jpg

 

Of course "each man must do what is right in his own eyes"

 

Colm

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I suggest it is very difficult to say what is the "correct" shade of paint for a model, and this subject has been extensively chewed over on this and other forums. Keep in mind a few major factors:- a) the greying effect of the atmosphere over the typical model viewing distance, b) the effect of fading and pollution on the paint, c) individual vehicles would have been repainted at different times resulting in colour variations in a rake. This gives one considerable leeway in the choice of colour. Maybe the only thing we can be sure of is that the colour on a 4mm scale coach seen from a metre or more away should not be exactly the colour of the paint in the original manufacturer's tin?

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UTA Railcar 6 & 7

 

At last I have been able to make a start on Railcar 6 & 7 after plaguing Allen Doherty for nearly a year to do a brass kit for me and eventually he did it in a week and this is the end result.

 

IMG_2201.JPG

 

First cleaning the brass and cutting out recess for the Black Beetle motors.

 

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The fun part was bending the front and side edges.

 

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It was good to get the front and sides soldered together.

 

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Cut a 'V' out in the spliced Comet roof.

 

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Then filled the gap with Isopon.

 

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Then sanded them down to be flush with the front.

 

 

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Brass cleaned ready for the etched primer coat.

 

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I'm sure the primer coat will show up all the gaps etc to be filled.  Still a long way to go.

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Lovely work Kirley; Worsley Works are the unsung heroes of Irish railway modelling.

If we could get them to consider doing the BUT railcars, the GNR men would be well satisfied. I might drop Allen a note......

 

One question on cars 6&7: the fronts look surprisingly flat.

I never actually saw them in real life (don't think they ever made it to Dublin) but I assumed the front ends would be basically similar to the AEC cars.

 

Many thanks,

 

Glover

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I tried to mirror the same front angle as the drawing, do you think it should be more rounded?

 

IMG_2624.JPG

 

IMG_2625.JPG

 

Maybe there should be more of a tumble home on the lower front panel but that's the best I could do.

 

Great there is the interest on the BUT's.  On the 2nd Nov Allen emailed me, "Will make a start on the Buts ASAP"

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I have been looking at the profile of the front of 6 & 7, and the MEDs. The cab front is flat from side to side, but vertically it has a curve from top to bottom just as in the drawing. There is a good picture showing this in 'The UTA in Colour' P91. If you look closely at the window pillars, you can see the curved body profile against the flat glass of the windows. The profile of the front of these railcars is nothing like the AECs.

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Most interesting, reading all this sent me back to DD for another look.  I had not commented on the styling differences between 6 & 7 and the first batch of MEDs. Indeed I had thought they were pretty much the same.

 

I still think that, looking at the various angles and so forth, including the pictures in Derek's book referred to, that the front end of 6/7 was virtually the same profile as 8,9 etc., the main difference being bits of beading (if that's the right term) above and below the cab windows on the former; the front panel under the windows is pretty well vertical, (the lamps are slightly different). Also (despite what the drawing suggests) the upper cab and windows slope back a bit with a very slight curve;certainly in 4mm I'd be happy with flat - and the windows are indeed flat. I agree with David that the front was flat "from side to side", The profile isn't dissimilar to NCC railcars 3 & 4, though its hard to tell about them - livery in some cases obscures the actual body lines..  I actually wonder about some of the drawings made in the UTA era, and would always ultimately go by the way the car appears in photos.   But full marks to Kieran for spurring Allen Doherty on to make these etches and being brave enough to "have a go". at the less known units..

 

Well, that's my hap'orth.! If only there were some preserved so we could really see. Anyone for a dip in Crosshill Quarry??

 

Colm

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Fair play Kieran you have really mastered building coaches and rail cars from Worsley Works parts in an amazingly short time.

 

Interesting that the UTA coach builders appear to have reverted to LMS Period 1 design complete with beading for the AEC railcars nearly 20 years after the LMS first introduced flush sided stock.

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It must be remembered that railcars 6 & 7 were experimental, and were, in fact, converted from J10 coaches of late 1930s vintage with very little physical modification, hence the beading. MEDs 8 to 13 were also built from Class J10 coaches, but, as production models, were more heavily modified with power operated doors and flush sides.    

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I have looked at various photos, including the in cab shots from Colm's Diesel Dawn and now see that the fronts were "flat".

I suspect this is a classic case of me seeing what I thought should be there rather than reality!

 

On the question of the BUT railcars and the strong possibility that Worsley Works will produce etchings, has anyone any thoughts on how to reproduce the unusual corridor connections?

Colm describes them in his book as being of continental (European) design.

 

Regards,

 

Glover

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Isn’t it great to see the discussions on a Railcar that only actually existed as two vehicles; where else would you get that, thanks to everyone for contributing.

 

Glover, my own thoughts on BUT Corridor connections was using a suitable size of Black Heat Shrink Tubing which I hope will give the right effect.

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Many thanks TurfBurner, PM sent.  Those interior shots are very helpful as I hope to start the interiors tomorrow, I see there was a seat in the middle of the window instead of the usual seats on either side of the window, that's why they were able to get 65 seats in 3rd class.

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The intermediate coach could be got by using an LMS pattern non corridor type - possibly a modified old Graham Farish one (not the Dapol/airifx type which had a toilet- passengers travelling in this vehicle just had to hold on. It had a long life, this coach, not scrapped finally until 1971.  In later years 6&7 did not run with a trailer. Not quite right, as its a wee bit short (57 rather than 60'). Another possibility (also 57') would be the newish Hornby LMS/BR suburban coaches - better bogies, fabulously smooth runners with much more detail - if you really want to be fussy you could remove the Stanier style ribs on the roof and repaint in LMS grey rather than silver.  And you could repaint the interiors in the UTA's lovely drab green for the upholstery. 

 

 

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An MED smooth sided set built some years ago with intermediate of a similar type - GF as above.  (this uses a BR Class 101 front end from an ancient Tri-ang model.  I'm quite happy with it. And to be honest if I were doing  6&7 I'd use Allen sides and these ends, lazy person that I am....) In fact I do my units a bit narrower than they were, which slightly distorts the head on look but makes life a lot easier in other ways.  Of course, if you're running 21mm for 100% accuracy...but I will not go there.  Anyone up for modelling the early  Ulster railway on 6'2" ( 24.8 ish mm...)??   That'd keep someone busy for a while.

 

Colm

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