Class 800 - Updates

[Gwiwer]

A need arises to reach west Cornwall (i.e. beyond Penzance) from London next Friday.  Timing is constrained by needing to finish work at 11.00 and not be at the destination (and with our host) indecently late in the evening.  

 

As a consequence we are booked on a 2x5-car Marrow.  I know the formation because of the class of travel and allocated seat reservations.  However the reservations to Penzance are in the unit which is due to terminate at Plymouth  so we shall have to see what happens on the day.  

[Zomboid]

I suspect the non-hinged tables is the kind of decision that was made to save about 35p on the contract.

[jim.snowdon]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And on some 16X tables Jim

It's been a while since I had the chance to ride a 16x, let alone sample the first class bits.

 

Jim

[jim.snowdon]

6 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I suspect the non-hinged tables is the kind of decision that was made to save about 35p on the contract.

More likely is that it never even occurred to the civil servants responsible for drafting the specification, and if it isn't in the spec. you don't get it in the contract (unless you pay extra).

 

Jim 

[rodent279]

A trip to Northampton abandoned today, after 800327, travelling at around 50mph, had this builders rubble bag wrapped around it's pantograph, just west of Alderton Tunnel. The train continued on diesel to Swindon, at 30mph. During a 10 min stop at Swindon, the pan was raised and lowered several times, but the bag showed no sign of shifting. The train continued on diesel, I abandoned at Swindon, as due to disruption between Reading and Paddington, there's no chance I'll get to where I need to be in time.

Edited February 9, 2020 by rodent279

[Gwiwer]

Appears to be a typical GWR loading as well though one cannot truly assess that from seeing a single doorway and today's storm has resulted in a number of cancellations.

[rodent279]

46 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Appears to be a typical GWR loading as well though one cannot truly assess that from seeing a single doorway and today's storm has resulted in a number of cancellations.

It was wedged. I was stood in that aisle, from Parkway to Swindon. The adjacent toilet had the door set to manual so a buggy, complete with sleeping child, could be parked in there. A 5 car set, already full, with around 150 more piling on at Parkway.

[The Stationmaster]

51 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Appears to be a typical GWR loading as well though one cannot truly assess that from seeing a single doorway and today's storm has resulted in a number of cancellations virtually no IETs running east of Swindon.

I've corrected it for you Rick

[rodent279]

At least one followed it eastbound out of Swindon 10 min later, but how far it got is anyone's guess. There were reports of job stopped east of Reading, but no hard information. I didn't want to risk staying on, and spending half the night on a train in the middle of nowhere, so I baled while I could.

Edited February 9, 2020 by rodent279

[Gwiwer]

On 24/01/2020 at 13:22, Gwiwer said:

A need arises to reach west Cornwall (i.e. beyond Penzance) from London next Friday.  Timing is constrained by needing to finish work at 11.00 and not be at the destination (and with our host) indecently late in the evening.  

 

As a consequence we are booked on a 2x5-car Marrow.  I know the formation because of the class of travel and allocated seat reservations.  However the reservations to Penzance are in the unit which is due to terminate at Plymouth  so we shall have to see what happens on the day.  

I never followed up on this.  

 

Our reservation for Penzance was in the Pullman diner which is coach L and which is in the set terminating at Plymouth.  The Pullman service was as good as ever though lacks the ambience the HST coaches had.  We were not the only diners travelling into Cornwall.  

 

At Plymouth we duly shuffled forwards (in fact, with the benefit of knowledge, we had walked through the set as we descended Hemerdon so as to minimise the platform hike) into the front unit.  The first class was actually full and standing.  As was the standard class.  The rear unit, as we walked through, was almost empty so there is still an imbalance in both reservations and casual use; clearly on this train on this day the great majority of users were Cornwall-bound.  

 

We managed to secure two first class seats which were being occupied by one woman and a large number of bags.  She didn't hold a first class ticket either as the conductor discovered when he came through before departure hoping to seat everyone.  So we were seated throughout but others were advised to claim a refund because having paid for first class no seats were available.  

 

Most of the train alighted at Truro.  There seemed no apparent reason and whilst a decent number crossed to await the Falmouth train a far greater number left the station.  The remainder of the trip was uneventful and quiet.  But not in as much comfort as we would have liked despite the generously sized seats.  They are still rather hard.  

 

The return trip was standard class and began on a 5-car which left Penzance almost empty.  By Truro it was full and by Bodmin full and standing.  We did, however, have a trolley service which I gather is unusual for a Sunday and my previous Sunday trips have suggested catering is definitely an option not a service.  We were both feeling the discomfort of the seats long before Plymouth where we attached to another 5-car unit in a manner I had not experienced before.  Doors remained locked until the attachment was made which frustrated some who were clearly anxious to leave the train at Plymouth.  On the (former) Southern Region the doors are released first, then the join is made and the doors released once more before departure.  All of which can be done in two to three minutes whereas our stop at Plymouth required several minutes more than the booked eight.  

 

As is usual for a Sunday afternoon Up run the train just got busier and busier and if there was a trolley beyond Plymouth they would not have been able to get through the standees and baggage in the aisles.  With a little recovery time in the schedule we stopped in Paddington just over five minutes late and a huge sigh of relief was breathed by the several hundred who poured out onto the platform.  

[Siberian Snooper]

That seems to be the proceedure for joining of two units at Plymouth, nowhere near as slick as it is on the Southern, in any of its incarnations.

 

 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

That seems to be the proceedure for joining of two units at Plymouth, nowhere near as slick as it is on the Southern, in any of its incarnations.

 

 

It's the same with TPE, train arrives at PIccadilly and joins with stabled unit first and then releases passengers.

 

I can see the logic - with everyone either on the train or the platform then there is less issue with closing the doors, shunting and then re-opening the doors, the latter being how they used to do it at Preston.

 

If you join first and then allow people to embark/disembark you have more time to do the brake tests and check the connections whilst passengers mingle, do it the other way around and you're at the mercy of the passengers.  Northern recently joined two units at Oxford Rd in the bay having let passengers disembark first and then had a fight with all the passengers waiting to embark on the platform and it took quite a few staff to keep people away.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

It's the same with TPE, train arrives at PIccadilly and joins with stabled unit first and then releases passengers.

 

I can see the logic - with everyone either on the train or the platform then there is less issue with closing the doors, shunting and then re-opening the doors, the latter being how they used to do it at Preston.

 

If you join first and then allow people to embark/disembark you have more time to do the brake tests and check the connections whilst passengers mingle, do it the other way around and you're at the mercy of the passengers.  Northern recently joined two units at Oxford Rd in the bay having let passengers disembark first and then had a fight with all the passengers waiting to embark on the platform and it took quite a few staff to keep people away.

It appears to be the standard procedure at Reading when coupling 387s as well.  In my view it's the the safest and quickest way of doing the job because once the doors are open there will be people milling about both leaving and joining that particular unit so you get delay waiting for/trying to stop that happening and many folk still don't get up ready to alight until the train has stopped and the doors have been opened by other passengers.  The WR operated the same procedure with 16X units - having, I believe, learnt the lesson the hard way.

 

Passengers 'on the Southern' were long ago trained in its way of running an intensive suburban service - the same doesn't apply elsewhere

[Gwiwer]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Passengers 'on the Southern' were long ago trained in its way of running an intensive suburban service - the same doesn't apply elsewhere

But could be taught and learned.  

 

Back in slam-door days when the catering portion was added at Plymouth to Up Cornish expresses there was nothing to stop passenger egress at North Road upon arrival nor anything bar the shouts of platform staff to prevent boarding during the shunt movement.  The added vehicles were waiting in the middle road (or at an adjacent platform) and went onto the front being detached upon arrival back from Paddington.  

 

The same was true when Plymouth had its own sleeping car which was the rear vehicle of the Down working and came off allowing for a later wake-up call than 04.30 for 05.00 as now.  And it went back on the front sometime after midnight after having been in platform 8 and available for boarding since 22.30.  

 

I agree that there is merit in coupling first and only releasing doors once.  If an on-board announcement were made - which perhaps it is on some trains but wasn't on ours - then frustrations might not be so vociferously taken out on the long-suffering staff.  I can understand the concern that a door might not be released and passengers fear they might not be able to alight when the train stops for some time then moves forward (albeit for only a very short distance in order to couple) again without releasing the doors.  And of course some might be pressed for time and very keen to get where they need to be.  

[dhjgreen]

18 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

You can remove unwanted posts yourself use; options, hide in the relevant posts.

[talisman56]

I would have thought that the likelihood of passenger customer injury due to being unbalanced by the shock of a rough coupling-up might be a reason not to make the joining manoevre before the customers standing in the vestibules awaiting the opportiunity to alight have detrained - but then again, with the amount of long-term standing experienced nowadays...

[royaloak]

On 09/02/2020 at 16:46, Gwiwer said:

Appears to be a typical GWR loading as well though one cannot truly assess that from seeing a single doorway and today's storm has resulted in a number of cancellations.

Despite everyone (Met Office, Network Rail, the TOCs etc) telling people not to travel it never ceases to amaze me how many people HAVE to make life or death journeys and then complain about everything!

[royaloak]

13 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

That seems to be the procedure for joining of two units at Plymouth, nowhere near as slick as it is on the Southern, in any of its incarnations.

 

 

There are very good reasons why it takes as long as it does, and being an ex South West Trains driver I am fully aware of 'how it is done on the Southern', unfortunately some posters (not aimed at you) simply wont listen because they know better than the people actually carrying out the procedure so I will bow to their (obviously superior) knowledge of all things railway!

Edited February 10, 2020 by royaloak
clarification

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, talisman56 said:

I would have thought that the likelihood of passenger customer injury due to being unbalanced by the shock of a rough coupling-up might be a reason not to make the joining manoevre before the customers standing in the vestibules awaiting the opportiunity to alight have detrained - but then again, with the amount of long-term standing experienced nowadays...

Which is why they are told to remain seated, not that they listen of course!

[royaloak]

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Passengers 'on the Southern' were long ago trained in its way of running an intensive suburban service - the same doesn't apply elsewhere

No chance of that happening with our passengers, the World revolves around them and they wont be told!

[royaloak]

10 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

But could be taught and learned.  

I long thought it, but now I know you are taking the piss!

 

Teach the passengers, this is 2020 not 1970.

[jim.snowdon]

11 hours ago, royaloak said:

There are very good reasons why it takes as long as it does, and being an ex South West Trains driver I am fully aware of 'how it is done on the Southern', unfortunately some posters (not aimed at you) simply wont listen because they know better than the people actually carrying out the procedure so I will bow to their (obviously superior) knowledge of all things railway!

It was not at all unknown for GWR drivers to couple 387s at Paddington before letting the incoming passengers alight.

 There are also liable to be differences between what can be done in terms of how the trains have been designed and how the train operator wants it to be done. Train operators, and inter alia, their training contractors have a habit of being unnecessarily risk averse.

 

11 hours ago, royaloak said:

Which is why they are told to remain seated, not that they listen of course!

Who's being protected, the passengers or the TOC's risk managers? 

 

Jim

[Gwiwer]

11 hours ago, royaloak said:

I long thought it, but now I know you are taking the piss!

 

Teach the passengers, this is 2020 not 1970.

It has worked in some instances.  The recent deployment of both crowd controllers and "Trespass and Welfare Officers" across SWR, which is a NR initiative, has seen a learning curve climbed among most regular users who had been in the habit of standing feet - or more - across the yellow line while waiting for a train.  Or of pushing into the doorways before others had alighted.  

 

The manners now seen at places like Clapham Junction, where a momentary glance eye to eye will usually be enough to bring about the desired outcome, are very different to the scrummages of a couple of years ago.  

 

Or is this another case of "the Southern way"? 

 

[corneliuslundie]

Arriva Trains Wales and now TfW also couple trains before opening doors, at Shrewsbury for example - I don't know about what happens as Machynlleth as I rarely travel west. But I don't remember any "please stay seated" announcements. There are usually plenty of announcements but they are usually about connections etc.

Jonathan

[royaloak]

11 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

It has worked in some instances.  The recent deployment of both crowd controllers and "Trespass and Welfare Officers" across SWR, which is a NR initiative, has seen a learning curve climbed among most regular users who had been in the habit of standing feet - or more - across the yellow line while waiting for a train.  Or of pushing into the doorways before others had alighted.  

 

The manners now seen at places like Clapham Junction, where a momentary glance eye to eye will usually be enough to bring about the desired outcome, are very different to the scrummages of a couple of years ago.  

 

Or is this another case of "the Southern way"? 

 

Most 'Southern' passengers are commuters and/or well seasoned travellers, ours down here are not, that is the big difference.

 

You can call it what you like but from my viewpoint dealing with them the two are not even remotely comparable and that 'glance' at CLJ wont work down here because most of the passengers wont have a clue what you are on about as they only catch the train a few times a year, so unless your staff are going to be in place for the next 5 years the message will be falling on new ears day after day after day, and by the time the people who heard it on day one travel again they would have forgotten all about it.