CAF to build new LHCS for Caledonian Sleeper

[skipepsi]

I think some people have mixed up your posts with those of The Statiomaster AKA Mike, given the respect he has on here I wouldn't regard that as a bad thing.

[Charlie Mackintosh]

I don't know where you get your info from but its that flawed iv had to join here to tell you. Inverness will be doing heavy maintenance on the sleeper check out the Tessa website for confirmed maintenance plan. Yeh Alstom are doing it but so is Inverness.  

FAO MJKERR

Edited February 17, 2015 by Charlie Mackintosh

['CHARD]

I don't know where you get your info from but its that flawed iv had to join here to tell you. Inverness will be doing heavy maintenance on the sleeper check out the Tessa website for confirmed maintenance plan. Yeh Alstom are doing it but so is Inverness.  

FAO MJKERR

 

Tessa aka the TSSA union, I presume.

 

http://www.tssa.org.uk/en/Your-union/Your-company/company-headlines.cfm/tupe-transfer-first-scotrail-staff-to-abellio-daytime-services-and-to-serco-caledonian-sleeper-service

 

Scroll down, it's after the Abellio headlines, and does indicate 'engineering maintenance and vehicle inspection' will continue at IS.

 

This isn't quantified, and I'm not going to examine the semantics and ambiguities, because people whose jobs may be affected can clearly read this thread in public domain.

Edited February 17, 2015 by 'CHARD

[Talltim]

It reads as though the Scottish maintenence and train prep staff and some others will transfer to Abellio/Scotrail rather than move to the sleeper franchise

Edited February 17, 2015 by Talltim

[The Stationmaster]

It reads as though the Scottish maintenence and train prep staff and some others will transfer to Abellio/Scotrail rather than move to the sleeper franchise

That is exactly what it says, twice.

 

What it does not say is who will do what level of maintenance where and when on the existing or future Anglo-Scottish sleeper fleet.  But what it does say could certainly be 'read between the lines' to indicate that Serco have no wish to obtain an establishment of in-house maintenance staff at Inverness (and one may draw from that whatever conclusion one wishes but I think I can understand what it means in the light of seemingly well-founded information already given in this thread).

[nightstar.train]

The Mark 3A sleepers looked good in the NatEx version (almost monochromatic)

From what I have seen of the Caledonian Sleeper livery it looks like an improvement over the current livery

Most liveries have to work around an almost identical proportion of windows to body panels

The sleeper coaches are almost like a locomotive with majority body panels

 

 

I agree the original NatEx livery was great. As was Intercity swallow, and the original Great Westen green and white. Then first came along and put horrid stripes on the GW ones and painted the scots ones a nasty purple with a different sort of daft stripe.

 

 

First ScotRail need to remove at least 80% of the logos from the rolling stock by Tuesday 24 March 

Caledonian Sleeper have no plans, at this time, to relivery any of the coaches

In the interim period basic logos will be applied

However, some of the station improvements will be applied in the new livery; Network Rail have already given approval for these

The first of these should appear at Euston and Edinburgh in time for Tuesday 31 March (I suspect on the night of Saturday 28 March)

GBRf should have completed two Class 92 locos in Caledonian Sleeper in time for Tuesday 31 March

One will be used northbound on the Inverness

The other will be used southbound on the Edinburgh

The franchise commences at the end of operations which commenced on Monday 30 March

In effect this is midday on Tuesday 31 March

Caledonian Sleeper Services operate from Tuesday 31 March

I found these links on Facebook. The angle isn't great, nor the description but I think this is the first class 92 painted in CS livery. Looks to be just a base of dark blue at the moment, I assume some vinyl logos will be added in the next month or so.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/MyTRainlover37/status/567679391749398528/photo/1

https://mobile.twitter.com/wnxxuk/status/567834924214030337/photo/1

[nightstar.train]

That is exactly what it says, twice.

 

What it does not say is who will do what level of maintenance where and when on the existing or future Anglo-Scottish sleeper fleet.  But what it does say could certainly be 'read between the lines' to indicate that Serco have no wish to obtain an establishment of in-house maintenance staff at Inverness (and one may draw from that whatever conclusion one wishes but I think I can understand what it means in the light of seemingly well-founded information already given in this thread).

The way I am reading it is that Serco will continue the current maintenance arrangement with the ex BR stock and hire that service from Abellio, as the Inverness depot is passing to them and it makes sense that way. Then when the new build CAF stock comes into service it will be maintained by Alstom at Wembly and Polmaide. At about this time the HSTs will start transferring up from the south west so Inverness will loose a sleeper fleet but gain the HST fleet to take care of. This again makes sense as they have experience of Mk3 stock. So all in all I don't see Inverness is really losing out in this, just changing what they work on.

[newbryford]

GBRf should have completed two Class 92 locos in Caledonian Sleeper in time for Tuesday 31 March

 

 

 

 

92033 has just been released in the base livery.

A more side on view of 92033 - quite a nice shade methinks, not as bland as BR banger blue.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 18, 2015 by newbryford

[mjkerr]

Scroll down, it's after the Abellio headlines, and does indicate 'engineering maintenance and vehicle inspection' will continue at IS.

This is the between duties routine maintenance only

There is a similar agreement in place at Aberdeen with East Coast (soon to be VTEC)

Oddly, there is no mention of the admin staff based at Inverness, just a change in the job title of the on-board staff, nor the existing admin staff at Fort William who will transfer to Abellio

This might explain why Serco advertised for new admin staff in Inverness, as noone in Fort William wanted to transfer to Inverness

 

However, the next paragraph suggests those staff that currently work mostly on First sleeper duties will transfer to Abellio :

In special arrangements that it is proposed Abellio enter into, they will accept those staff under a TUPE transfer and continue to provide those services to Caledonian Sleeper under contract

 

This confirms very little will change until 2018, when the new rolling stock arrives, both at Abellio and Serco

Edited February 18, 2015 by mjkerr

['CHARD]

We missed this yesterday, Serco's press release.  

 

Stand easy at Inverness, there's nowt taken out until 2018....

 

http://www.serco.com/Images/010_Brand%20new%20Caledonian%20Sleeper%20trains%20from%202018_tcm3-46360.pdf

[leopardml2341]

It'll be interesting to see how this:

 

"SERCO will begin running the improved service from 1 April 2015"

 

manifests.

 

Old stock, same staff, same timetabling (until May 2015) and same routes - improved?

 

I'm sceptical.

['CHARD]

Some might say (although I couldn't possibly comment) that the removal of the First logos will represent an improvement.  Joking apart, a change in ownership might possibly seep into the psyche of regular users.  And as all eyes will be on Serco, you would imagine they'll really make an effort at Day One.

 

However, they're playing a game with very restless odds.  The majority of the travelling public probably aren't brand-loyal, if they notice or bother to access the 'owning mind' at all.  But much of the spend here is discretionary.  Too much fanfare then a couple of screw-ups in the early days of Serco management could have horrible repercussions for their reputation and business model.

 

 

EDIT: I'm on leave this week Andy, hence my presence on here at Kyle o'clock 

Edited February 18, 2015 by 'CHARD

[Talltim]

It'll be interesting to see how this:

 

"SERCO will begin running the improved service from 1 April 2015"

 

manifests.

 

Old stock, same staff, same timetabling (until May 2015) and same routes - improved?

 

I'm sceptical.

Class 92s! much more fun!

 

This is the between duties routine maintenance only

There is a similar agreement in place at Aberdeen with East Coast (soon to be VTEC)

Oddly, there is no mention of the admin staff based at Inverness, just a change in the job title of the on-board staff, nor the existing admin staff at Fort William who will transfer to Abellio

This might explain why Serco advertised for new admin staff in Inverness, as noone in Fort William wanted to transfer to Inverness

 

However, the next paragraph suggests those staff that currently work mostly on First sleeper duties will transfer to Abellio :

In special arrangements that it is proposed Abellio enter into, they will accept those staff under a TUPE transfer and continue to provide those services to Caledonian Sleeper under contract

 

This confirms very little will change until 2018, when the new rolling stock arrives, both at Abellio and Serco

That was my impression. Status quo remains, until Serco have got settled in and/or got new stock. The TUPEing of the Inverness maintenance staff to Abellio/Scotrail allows Serco to keep using their services, without having to worry about what happens to them if/when they decide to move all maintenance to the Alsthom sites.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Talltim

[The Stationmaster]

Alright then - a bit of light relief about Class 92s.  When they were undergoing tests that there was a lot of concern about nasty electro-magnetic emissions from them interfering with just about every signalling system then known to mankind which involved any form of electrickery.  Indeed one engineer at one stage compared their electro-magnetic emissions with those of an atom bomb.

 

Anyway tests were duly proceeding up on the WCML within possessions and the test train was at a stand - I think waiting to get back into a possession - when the test kit picked up a mass of electro-magnetic/electric interference which puzzled the test team as it was the worst they had recorded.  Someone duly looked out of a window to see the rear part of an ordinary service train proceeding past them at considerable speed - seems that Class 92s weren't as bad as at least one class of BR ac electric.

[leopardml2341]

Class 92's maybe more 'fun' but they're less comfortable than even a Mark 1 sleeper................

 

OK - hat and coat at the ready :-)

[david.hill64]

Alright then - a bit of light relief about Class 92s.  When they were undergoing tests that there was a lot of concern about nasty electro-magnetic emissions from them interfering with just about every signalling system then known to mankind which involved any form of electrickery.  Indeed one engineer at one stage compared their electro-magnetic emissions with those of an atom bomb.

 

Anyway tests were duly proceeding up on the WCML within possessions and the test train was at a stand - I think waiting to get back into a possession - when the test kit picked up a mass of electro-magnetic/electric interference which puzzled the test team as it was the worst they had recorded.  Someone duly looked out of a window to see the rear part of an ordinary service train proceeding past them at considerable speed - seems that Class 92s weren't as bad as at least one class of BR ac electric.

And the same thing happened on the Southern when we were trying to get the Notworkers accepted. The test equipment went bananas when a train of 4-Ceps rattled past. Far more interference in all parts of the frequency spectrum than from the dreaded AC drive units!

[cheesysmith]

There was also a tail doing the round that when under testing the engineers told the computer that they were on smaller wheel/worn tyre size, and using the 10% overspeed setting they had over 90mph out of one. Of course, being brush bogies it was perfectly stable at those speeds.

 

Bit like the tests between the 59and 60 on the freightliners.

[GordonC]

You can't have a poo until you've had a shower?

 

you can ... you just cant flush til you have

[nightstar.train]

It'll be interesting to see how this:

 

"SERCO will begin running the improved service from 1 April 2015"

 

manifests.

 

Old stock, same staff, same timetabling (until May 2015) and same routes - improved?

 

I'm sceptical.

Whilst the workings and under pinnings are not going to change the surface will, and that's what the public notice. New uniforms, new passenger literature, new website to book through and I believe new catering using lots of Scottish food (hopefully not including a macaroni pie roll, or they'll need a fleet of hearses to meet the train each morning). Maybe new bed linen?

 

I know this question is many moons away, but I wonder how the new stock will be introduced? In full 16 coach rakes so it only runs with itself. Or 8 coach rakes so it's a complete train to somewhere and couples to another 8 coach rake of BR stock. Or in dribs and drabs so we'll have mixed rakes of BR and CAF stock. Or would they wait until the full fleet of 75 coaches is ready and switch in one go (I doubt this though, would be a bit expensive having new stock lying in sidings).

 

And how many locos will be receiving the new CS livery? By my reckoning they need 5 class 92s each night and 4 73/9s. Plus the AC heritage locos for the empty stock moves. Will they all get CS livery, or even an extra few to form a good pool?

Edited February 18, 2015 by nightstar.train

[Glorious NSE]

 lots of Scottish food (hopefully not including a macaroni pie roll, or they'll need a fleet of hearses to meet the train each morning). Maybe new bed linen?

?!?!?   

 

It's not that bad, surely! 

[nightstar.train]

Hehe. A macaroni pie roll is a real thing. It is macaroni cheese, in a pie, in a roll. As my mate who told me about it said "it's your four main food groups. Pasta, cheese, pie and roll." Heart attack on a plate, or maybe more accurately in a grease stained paper bag.

[298]

Plus the AC heritage locos for the empty stock moves. Will they all get CS livery, or even an extra few to form a good pool?

86101, photo credit I Wright:

 

[62613]

92033 has just been released in the base livery.

A more side on view of 92033 - quite a nice shade methinks, not as bland as BR banger blue.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Reckon Lord Claud Hamilton might have liked that!

[newbryford]

86101, photo credit I Wright:

 

Screenshot_2015-02-19-18-44-47_1.jpg

 

I feel the need for OHLE......

 

Apparently the colour is called "Midnight Teal"

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 19, 2015 by newbryford

[The Stationmaster]

I feel the need for OHLE......

 

Apparently the colour is called "Midnight Teal"

 

Cheers,

Mick

Looks like 'improved engine black' to me