Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Ian Major]

Mikkel,

 

This photo may be of interest to you. It is the GWR weighbridge in the yard of Littleton and Badsey Station. This station was located between Evesham and Honeybourne on the OWWR.  I took the photo on 31st December 1965. The yard had closed and its rails lifted the year before. The weighing mechanism had been removed by this time. The station was officially closed on 3rd January 1966 but in practice the last train had already gone - it was also the end of steam on the WR. All the buildings were demolished soon after. 

 

The building is an interesting variant with the entrance door on the front. In line with Stephen's comment the door frame has a recess to the rear indicating it opened inwards. 

 

This being the Vale of Evesham, in the background are fields of sprout plants. On the horizon are rows of fruit trees (plums). Fruit and veg grown in the area made this yard very busy at one time.   

 

 

 

Since I am here, I will add another picture!

 

This was taken same day and to take it I turned 90 degrees to my right. It was the yard stable building. The advert on the end was replicated on the other end. Barnett Emanual bought asparagus from the local growers (including my Father) for Covent Garden Market, London,

 

The buildings behind to the left are those of the Littleton and Badsey Growers Association. This was a co-operative for the local growers and was a big source of railway traffic including seed and agricultural equipment. BTW its chairman was Charles Binyon. His better known brother Laurence wrote the poem "To the Fallen"  ("We Will Remember Them") which is recited every Remembrance Day.  As my South Wales friends would say "There's distinction". 

 

I will go back to sleep now.

 

Ian.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Ian Major

[vulcanbomber]

I prefer to paint the mortar fist and then brush on brick work paint diagonally with an almost dry brush

[Mikkel]

6 hours ago, Ian Major said:

This photo may be of interest to you.

 

Many thanks Ian. Excellent photos and very evocative captions too! 

 

That weighbridge is a very no-nonsense  variant, no fancy curved window here. It looks almost as if the top brick courses have been sliced away.  And a stable block too, with quite a story attached. You made my day 

 

 

6 hours ago, vulcanbomber said:

I prefer to paint the mortar fist and then brush on brick work paint diagonally with an almost dry brush

 

That looks very effective Richard, with a nice proportion between bricks and mortar.  Thanks for illustrating that as I hadn't been able to find a good example of that approach.  

 

[richbrummitt]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Exterior doors generally open inwards to deprive the would-be burglar of access to the hinges.

It significantly reduces the chance of being barricaded such that the door is prevented from being opened from the inside. 

[Collett]

Ian - really nice pictures, thank you. 

 

As Mikkel notes the 'standard'(?) arch topped window opening has not been used, and the use of a hipped roof rather than the usual open gable ends makes the building much squatter.  But that standard three frame window is still in evidence, the centre frame standing forward so the other frames can slide behind.  I can only surmise that this was a standard window set produced by one of the GWR's carpentry shops (No 12?) - I see from the STEAM GWR Museum https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/swindon-works/carriage-wagon-works/12-shop/ that they even had their own furniture made at Swindon.  I hadn't expected that even the desks, tables and chairs were made 'in house' rather than bought in from specialist manufacturers.

 

 

[Simond]

They even cast their own bog-roll holders...

 

I suspect that at their heyday, none of the really big engineering works bought in much that was finished.  They would make everything, including hand tools such as hammers and files.  Hammers, yes, files take a bit of making.  I guess they bought in specialist stuff like machine tools, but if you have a drawing office, and every type of workshop, and the skilled staff to use them, why would you pay someone else a profit to do what you can do yourself?

 

it is certainly a trend in “modern” management to “stick to your knitting”, do only what you are specialised in, and it’s also the case that there are far fewer “can make anything” companies than there were, but I suspect the pendulum has swung one way, and will swing back again.  I rather think business is like hem lines.  Up, middle, down, middle, repeat with trivial variation...

 

atb

Simon

Edited August 28, 2020 by Simond

[Mikkel]

5 hours ago, Collett said:

the centre frame standing forward so the other frames can slide behind

 

Ah, I thought it was the centre frame that could slide. I have yet to see a photo where it has actually been done, but then photos of structures tend to be taken when there are no vehicles obstructing them. 

[davidbr]

On 28/08/2020 at 02:28, Collett said:

. . . the centre frame standing forward so the other frames can slide behind.  

The arrangement with sideways sliding sashes is called a Yorkshire sash.  Sometimes, the outside frames are proud and the centre one(s) slide behind them.  I made a couple for my workshop.  They are much more convenient than the up and down sashes as there are no cords or weights.

[Mikkel]

Thanks for that. It led me to this document by English Heritage, which includes a section on the history of traditional windows (p8-23): 

 

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/traditional-windows-care-repair-upgrading/heag039-traditional-windows-revfeb17/

[Collett]

On 29/08/2020 at 07:36, davidbr said:

The arrangement with sideways sliding sashes is called a Yorkshire sash.  Sometimes, the outside frames are proud and the centre one(s) slide behind them.  I made a couple for my workshop.  They are much more convenient than the up and down sashes as there are no cords or weights.

 

David, many thanks for that info.  Being from the West Riding myself I can see that such a common sense arrangement would have originated oop North.

 

Now fresh back from the yards at Winchcombe and Toddington on the GWRS https://www.gwsr.com/ I can report the following -

1: GWR 6 pane windows had panes 9.25" x 10.5" 

2: The bricks on both sites were 9" x 3" x 4.375" (actually 8 15/16" x 3" x 4 3/8")

3: Mortar was sometimes thinner than the 3/8" based on the 10-12mm stated UK practice - horizontal layers (bed joints) between courses were found to be 3/8", but vertical (head joints) were 1/4" - Confirmed - on these brick dimensions only  1/4" header mortar would permit the centring requirements of English or Flemish Bond - an extra 1/8" would have your header bricks noticeably out of centre after more than 4 bricks or so. 

 

There were more details noted, but first I have to interpret my son's numerals and put things down on a drawing to make proper sense of them.  My son noted the dimensions as I ran around quickly with the tape, shouting out numbers, and my dear wife sat in the car wondering what had become of her Bank Holiday Sunday drive in the Cotswolds.  

 

I was pleased to discover that my drawing of the Winchcombe weighbridge, based on counting bricks from several photographs, was only 3.52" out on width, 2.63" out on length and, amazingly, only about 1/4" out on height of the main walls.  Frankly I don't think I'll be making any significant changes to the drawings.

 

There appears to be another weighbridge building at Toddington, unfortunately inaccessible, which looks like a larger sister to that at Winchcombe.

 

As a slight disappointment it appears that the actual weighbridge table at Winchcombe is a relatively modern' installation - '1945 - POOLEY'  is cast on the plate.  Nevertheless some interesting detail of the raised 'non-slip' (?) surface.  See Henry Pooley & Son and W & T Avery on Wikipedia - I doubt that an earlier date for either company name would be considered unreasonable, and I would imagine these cast iron tables took a lot of punishment over years in service.

 

 

 

 

Something I discovered at Toddington was what must rank as possibly the smallest signal box on the GWR - 95" x 63" with four (perhaps five, it was hard to see) levers inside.  According to the info I have on the Tetbury signal box, that was 109" x 109", making Tetbury twice the size of this exampe on a square foot basis.   I don't yet know whether it's an authentic building that's been rescued and relocated, but it should be just the job for my planned three turnout layout, working title 'Blandings Parva'.  

BTW: Tetbury is now happily serving as someone's garden man-cave - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316901/Railway-fanatic-dismantles-signal-box--transport-150-miles-rebuilt-garden.html),

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Collett
Confirmed dimensions

[Andy Hayter]

On 29/08/2020 at 08:36, davidbr said:

The arrangement with sideways sliding sashes is called a Yorkshire sash.  Sometimes, the outside frames are proud and the centre one(s) slide behind them.  I made a couple for my workshop.  They are much more convenient than the up and down sashes as there are no cords or weights.

 

Known as Whitby sashes in the part of the world I was living in when last in the UK, they suffer a major issue - namely the ability of water to collect in the lower sash guide and rot the timbers.  

[Mikkel]

18 hours ago, Collett said:

Now fresh back from the yards at Winchcombe and Toddington on the GWRS 

 

Thanks for that detailed info. Good to know that the measurements were the same for both sites. I have been wondering how much the Winchcombe one has been rebuilt following preservation. It was re-roofed in 2017 it seems.

 

Also interesting to hear that you have "ground-truthed" measurements from the brick-counting method. Always re-assuring to hear that an established method actually works.

 

18 hours ago, Collett said:

My son noted the dimensions as I ran around quickly with the tape, shouting out numbers, and my dear wife sat in the car wondering what had become of her Bank Holiday Sunday drive in the Cotswolds.  

 

I am reminded of the Swindon stick man:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swindonlocal/albums/72157672893763035

 

 

[Collett]

8 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

I am reminded of the Swindon stick man:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swindonlocal/albums/72157672893763035

 

 

What an entirely bizarre and Pythonesque (or more likely Milliganesque) set of pictures.  Even more intriguing is the explanatory text provided by Swindon  Central Library - "A fantastic set of photographic images scanned from a set of extremely rare Ordnance Survey "Revison Point" books in our collection. Mostly from 1953 and 1954, these previously unseen and unpublished photographs have been of great interest to local historians and the subject of a fascinating talk by Andy Binks (Chair, The Swindon Society)." What?  This provides no explanation whatsoever, what is the man with the pointer pointing at?  And what is a "pipe nail"?

 

[Simond]

I had never seen the stick man before.  What a curious thing!  Thanks for another rabbit hole!

 

atb

Simon

[richbrummitt]

19 minutes ago, Collett said:

 

What an entirely bizarre and Pythonesque (or more likely Milliganesque) set of pictures.  Even more intriguing is the explanatory text provided by Swindon  Central Library - "A fantastic set of photographic images scanned from a set of extremely rare Ordnance Survey "Revison Point" books in our collection. Mostly from 1953 and 1954, these previously unseen and unpublished photographs have been of great interest to local historians and the subject of a fascinating talk by Andy Binks (Chair, The Swindon Society)." What?  This provides no explanation whatsoever, what is the man with the pointer pointing at?  And what is a "pipe nail"?

 

They do seem bizarre - I agree. A little digging around and the explanation makes sense once you have the lingo of the surveying world. A pipe nail - or at least one kind - is a surveying tool. This entry explains better the purpose of an r.p. (or lollipop) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/1c98753b-3140-45a0-8d44-311460e95100 . Revision points were the ‘datums’ of the OS maps for a time in the mid 20th century. 

[Northroader]

 

19 hours ago, Collett said:

 

 

 

This type of cabin was standard on the GWR at intermediate level crossings, I.e. away from a main signal boxes. They had a block instrument repeater inside to advise the crossing keeper when a train was in section, and three levers, one to lock the gate, and two for distant signals in either direction. (The red disc on the gate formed the stop signal)

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

This type of cabin was standard on the GWR at intermediate level crossings, I.e. away from a main signal boxes.

Also at minor stations served only by a ground frame, e.g. New Radnor with its complement of 4 levers!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Here is Hinton crossing signal box which was located between Bledlow and Thame station. Both buildings still exist although the crossing keepers house is much altered, and the signal box itself is now preserved at Chinnor. It does state signal box rather than ground frame on the name board.

Edited September 1, 2020 by David Bigcheeseplant

[Northroader]

There’s quite a good discussion going on the ins and outs of GWR ground frame cabins here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/157698-why-have-signals-on-a-branch-line/

[Mikkel]

Nice little structures.

 

I have a weak spot for the smaller GWR timber buildings. Here's a crop of a much larger photo showing the yard at Bristol Temple Meads. The cartage office is on the cards for Farthing. 

 

[PhilJ W]

The carter looks very smart with his tie. I admin a local history group on Facebook and I can't help noticing how smart even the likes of apprentices looked compared to today, polished boots in particular.

[Ian Major]

Mikkel, 

 

As we discussed here are some photos of the L&B lockup/goods shed which was fairly small.  (Whoops -should I have put this in your Blog? I will move it if you prefer.)

 

I took the first 3 photos on 31st December 1965. The first 2 photos were on a different reel of film and were not well printed by my local High Street chemist. Sadly I lost the negatives in a house move before decent prints could be produced.  The yard track had been lifted the previous year.

 

The interesting thing about this building is that there was no opening directly out on to the track.

 

The first photo shows the double doors through which goods could be transferred to/from a road vehicle. The office part is on the left. I assume there was access from this office via steps in to the goods area. The building was adjacent the loop which was to the right of the photo.

 

 

 

The second photo was taken from the rail side. There were a couple of high up windows to give light to the goods area. A raised area where vans could be loaded was at the far end of the building.

 

 

The third photo was taken alongside the building. It shows the steps up to the loading area from rail level.  Beyond is the grounded carriage body and the timber platelayers' hut.

 

 

I had a hunt around for views of the opposite wall. The following is the best that I could find. Most shots taken by me and others tended to be of trains which usually obscured the building.

 

I took this photo on an August Sunday in 1959. I know it was a Sunday because the "Flying Banana" ( W20W I believe) was on a return Worcester to Stratford-on-Avon trip complete with tail load. The lockup/goods shed has a door this end that leads on to the platform for van loading.

 

There was a set of weighing scales on the platform and a petrol pump to the right of the window. 

 

 A very frequent operation was:- 

 

A van in the loop would be loaded with fruit from the platform. Being an urgent shipment the van would be attached to the rear of a stopping passenger train. The train would often set back in to the loop to pick it up. Some drivers would refuse to do this so 4 shunters would push the van up to the rear of the train. The guys always grumbled at this since the gradient post by the grounded body marks the change from level through the yard to the start of the climb towards the Cotswold Hills. 

 

Alternatively, a  passing (long) goods train would pick the van up. The train was usually in the charge of a Hall, Grange or Manor.  The signalman would open the gates and set the signals clear to give the goods train a clear path through the station. The train would stop short of the home signal and the signalman would set all the signals back to danger. From that point the signalman controlled the shunting movements using green and red flags plus the ground signals.  Great entertainment for a young railway enthusiast.   

 

 

Next up are a couple of details from an Alan Bunting photo (left) and from one of mine (right).

 

The left detail was taken from a shot of 6387 shunting - its train is sat on the Down Main Line. Link to full image.  It shows the relationship between the lockup, weighbridge and stables. 

On the right of the picture is the five lever ground frame that controlled the entrance to the yard furthest from the signal box. It was released by lever 3 in the signal box. Someone is standing on its platform controlling the shunting movements. Judging by the small number of vans in the yard I would date this as mid 1963 - the two middle roads were removed soon after.

 

The doors at both ends of the lockup appear to be open since daylight is showing through.

 

The right detail is an extract from a photo of mine from 1960 that shows the ground frame.   

 

 

 

Hope this is of use or is interesting.

 

Ian.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Ian Major

[Mikkel]

Thanks Ian! Just to put everyone in the picture, here's Ian's annotation of the track plan for Littleton and Badsey, copied from the blog. If it wasn't for Farthing I'd be so tempted to build it.

 

Quote

 

A was the stable block.

B was the weighbridge.

C was the goods shed which was more of a large lockup.

D was a wooden platelayers shed. A grounded body from a ex 4 wheel carriage was later added for the shunters.

E was my grandparents cottage from which I took the above colour photo.

F were a set of wooden buildings that originally housed the L&B Growers.

 

The goods shed doesn't have much GWR about the design. I don't suppose it was an OWW structure?

 

I wonder what the brief was for the independent architects who designed railway structures in the early days. Did they bid with prepared designs, and how detailed was the brief? Eg: 'Design a railway goods shed to fit about here'. Or: ' Design a shed with capacity for xx wagons, space for xx storage, operated by an xx crane' etc. 

[Simond]

As a secure lock up, and goods transshipment point, it has much to commend it to the space-starved modeller, presumably less popular with the poor b.....rs who had to load and unload in the rain...

 

atb

Simon

[Ian Major]

Mikkel,

 

L&B was not one of the stations when the OWW was first opened. Brunel engineered the line so the early stations had his type of good shed eg as in Morton-in-Marsh and Camden. The line was meant to be broad gauge but the OWW directors did not want to be tied to the GW so it was to be built as dual gauge. In the event the part of the line through L&B was laid double track as narrow (standard) and single track broad. This was (intentionally) unworkable hence no broad gauge trains ran. At Oxford where a break of gauge took place the OWW got in to an agreement with the LNWR. A flyover was built across the GWR route which allowed OWW trains to run in to Euston.

 

The OWW merged with the three Shrewsbury lines via the Severn Valley line producing the West Midland Railway. This was eventually brought into the GWR sphere resulting in the dreaded narrow gauge in to Padington. The OWW was never forgiven for this by GW broad gauge fans. 

 

Result - influences on building design from all over the place!

 

Ian.   

Edited September 3, 2020 by Ian Major