Stuck Lima motor/replacement for it

[AdamfromIOW]

Pleased to say the DVD motor trick worked a charm!

[sub39h]

Would you mind doing a how to guide?

[DCB]

I repowered an old Triang-Hornby pannier with one as an experiment. Not something I'd suggest, nor did I repeat the experiment.

 

 

They tend to have a gearset with huge reduction ratio. Presumably using a DC motor saves having to have a stepper controller and it probably allows for some error correction.

 

Adrian

 

The motors shown are Tray Motors which just bang the disc tray in or out, no finesse required.  The Disc motor is completely different  and has multiple windings and no armature shaft as such and the Head motor is a [Edit] stepper [Edit] but has only one bearing the other being on the end of the long threaded shaft..   I have used these motors in Lima Diesels using 2X AA batteries as power to achieve a scale 40 mph on standard gearing, I found a standard Scalextric motor pinion fits the armature shaft and mates with the Lima gears.  These cans have much better torque than the Lima motor and the speed remains much more even up hill and down on constant voltage than the standard Lima. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[melmerby]

  The Disc motor is completely different  and has multiple windings and no armature shaft as such

On the picture I posted it has an outside rotor which the DVD sits on (the whole can rotates) and I would assume is brushless (as in floppy drives), speed being controlled by dedicated external circuitry.

The DVD drive shows it's ancestry as being from floppy drives, the mechanics do similar things.

 

Keith

Edited June 18, 2015 by melmerby

[Waverley47708]

Bought a couple of the CD motor replacement motors of eBay from a seller who had added the gear specifically for Lima Bo Bo.

 

Fitted them to two Lima HSTs, ran them in separate 2 + 8 formations.

 

Really easy to fit.

 

At the club they ran very well with no issues, v high top speed and good slow speed.

 

At home I had to nudge them occasionally when restarting them for a stop. Then last week after a running session they would not restart at all. No short, no smell of burning out.

 

Contacted the seller who was v good and provided a full refund.

 

Seller advised he has only had a few returns, most have been from layouts with Gaugemaster controllers. Interestingly at home it us a Gaugemaster, as the club Kent Panel Controls.

 

Was running for longer at home than at the club, but stalling issue only occurred at home even after a few minutes sometimes, I.e not just after a long running session.

 

Seller also referred to high frequency track cleaners possibly being an issue. I have one but it is not connected at the moment.

 

Would like to retry as the running was excellent when they were going.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited September 5, 2018 by Waverley47708

[Jaggzuk]

Hi Waverley47708

 

No help on the running issue, but interested in how you made the conversion.  I have seen some images on the web, but the one I had links to have been lost due to the Photobucket issues.  How did you fit the small cog to the motor drive shaft? Any photo you could post?

 

Kind regards 

[Waverley47708]

Hi Waverley47708

 

No help on the running issue, but interested in how you made the conversion.  I have seen some images on the web, but the one I had links to have been lost due to the Photobucket issues.  How did you fit the small cog to the motor drive shaft? Any photo you could post?

 

Kind regards

 

I bought two of them on eBay that were already fitted specifically for Lima engines. That said looks very straight forward if you can source motors and the cogs. YouTube has videos of the process.

[Simon G]

Hi Waverley47708

 

No help on the running issue, but interested in how you made the conversion.  I have seen some images on the web, but the one I had links to have been lost due to the Photobucket issues.  How did you fit the small cog to the motor drive shaft? Any photo you could post?

 

Kind regards

 

Hi, I have converted some Lima motors using the CD/DVD motors. My usual method is to take an old Lima pancake cog, which is integrated into the pancake armature, trim away all the unwanted bits of plastic, leaving just the cog. I have then used the sheath from some mains power cable to act as a shim between the cog and the drive shaft, as the drive shafts are a smaller diameter than the original Lima ones. This gives a very solid connection, and I have never had any issues with loosening or slipping.

[davetheroad]

Hi, I have converted some Lima motors using the CD/DVD motors. My usual method is to take an old Lima pancake cog, which is integrated into the pancake armature, trim away all the unwanted bits of plastic, leaving just the cog. I have then used the sheath from some mains power cable to act as a shim between the cog and the drive shaft, as the drive shafts are a smaller diameter than the original Lima ones. This gives a very solid connection, and I have never had any issues with loosening or slipping.

 

When I converted my Hornby Class 25 with a CD motor I used insulating shrink tube to widen the motor shaft. It appears to work well. I also have several Lima diesels including a class 08 converted using diesel-trains kits which at £12 odd I think are good value. I don't get pickup problems cos I don't have pickups, I use radio control and batteries.

 

The original Lima pancake motor can be serviced and if you fettle the gears by removing the moulding pips it reduces the noise.

[Waverley47708]

For the running issues, the best way to prevent stalling would be to fit extra pickups onto the leading bogie of the powercar.

 

This would require a tiny piece of copperclad board glued to the bogie in between the leading axles on the right hand side if viewed from above.  To this will be soldered a piece of fine copper strip which will touch the backs of the wheels.

 

The good thing with this arrangement is that the bogie block is made of plastic so the pickups will not short out.

 

From the motor, 1 of the wires will be connected to the rear bogie pickups which collect from the righ hand rail, the pickups from the leading bogie will need to be connected to the rear bogie pickups.

 

The other wire which will be connected to the factory fitted pickups will pickup from the left hand rail.

 

I have done the conversion in a Hornby hst and can post a picture sometime tonight or tomorrow to show how I did it.

 

I have a Lima 37 and 73 loco that could do with being converted but I have run out of motors to fit at this time.

 

1 poece of advice I will offer if I may is to fit as much extra weight as possible because the tyres will try to skip on the rails as I have found from experience.

 

Thanks for your post and advice re additional pick-ups.  However neither Lima HST power cars used to stall before the motors were replaced and since both the original pancake motor and the CD motor replacement use the same pick ups I am not sure that was the issue re the stalling.  Also the replacement motors did not stall on the club layout (Kent Panel Controls).

 

My original question relates to the motors failing altogether and in particular whether others have had any issues using them with a Gaugemaster controllers and or high frequency trackcleaners?

Edited September 6, 2018 by Waverley47708

[crompton 33]

I have fitted 4 CD motors to old  lima models . (1) class 33 . (3) class 73's. No problem as yet with Gaugemaster UQ controller . I don't use High frequency trackcleaners. But are  these Cd motors rated at 9 volt. I  never turn the controller up that high may be this is the reason they burn out. Will be fitting extra pick up's when i get round to fitting the ultrascale wheels thats been sitting about for a while.  Got my motors from Finland £4.00 each with cogs fitted last year.

Edited September 6, 2018 by crompton 33

[Sir TophamHatt]

Hi Waverley47708

 

No help on the running issue, but interested in how you made the conversion.  I have seen some images on the web, but the one I had links to have been lost due to the Photobucket issues.  How did you fit the small cog to the motor drive shaft? Any photo you could post?

 

Kind regards

I used the original gear cog from the old motor, heat shrink a bit of tubing over the new motor shaft and slide the gear cog on. Edited September 28, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[DCB]

Hi Waverley47708

 

No help on the running issue, but interested in how you made the conversion.  I have seen some images on the web, but the one I had links to have been lost due to the Photobucket issues.  How did you fit the small cog to the motor drive shaft? Any photo you could post?

 

Kind regards 

Scalextrix motor pinions go straight on the shaft and mate with the output gears. The white ones which run with a contrate/ crown wheel  sort of 1970s on not the "Sidewinder" coarse straight cut ones.   The pinions come in 5 sizes in one tooth increments which makes lining the motor up a doddle if you get the pack of 5.  I always just use the standard RTR one, almost invariably 40 years old and haven't had a failure yet in what must be over 10 years.

 

Bought a couple of the CD motor replacement motors of eBay from a seller who had added the gear specifically for Lima Bo Bo.

 

Fitted them to two Lima HSTs, ran them in separate 2 + 8 formations.

 

Really easy to fit.

 

At the club they ran very well with no issues, v high top speed and good slow speed.

 

At home I had to nudge them occasionally when restarting them for a stop. Then last week after a running session they would not restart at all. No short, no smell of burning out.

 

Contacted the seller who was v good and provided a full refund.

 

Seller advised he has only had a few returns, most have been from layouts with Gaugemaster controllers. Interestingly at home it us a Gaugemaster, as the club Kent Panel Controls.

 

Was running for longer at home than at the club, but stalling issue only occurred at home even after a few minutes sometimes, I.e not just after a long running session.

 

Seller also referred to high frequency track cleaners possibly being an issue. I have one but it is not connected at the moment.

 

Would like to retry as the running was excellent when they were going.

 

Any thoughts?

These motors are not designed for 20 volts model railway DC.   Mine slip on 3 volts when over loaded so if you ballast the locos you stand a good chance of burning one out.  Used without traction tyres and used on a variable voltage power units they should last for ever if you stick to the manufacturers rating.    I see some are 9 volt, some are 12 volt.    If you use the 20 volt off load resistor controllers, Gaugemasters, PWM etc maybe follow the makers instructions and actually fit the resistors as supplied if you buy an off the shelf kit.      Or fit your own, loads of advice on here about resistor selection, few relevant as they assume 12 volt DC in modelrailwayspeak equals 12 volts whereas its usually 20volts or more. 

I would also add capacitors, big fat ceramics big as you have room for, to smooth out the pulses as these motors don't suffer from "Sticktion" and don't need pulses to run slowly.

Edited September 28, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[81E]

 

For those wanting to fit a CD motor to a Lima 94XX and theoretically the J50 tou might find the above useful which I have developed for my Lima 94XX

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/MZ9XRHSGD/motor-mounting-ring-lima

[DCB]

 

 

 

For those wanting to fit a CD motor to a Lima 94XX and theoretically the J50 tou might find the above useful which I have developed for my Lima 94XX

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/MZ9XRHSGD/motor-mounting-ring-lima

 

I thought all the Lima motors had the same magnet so logically this ring should also fit the BoBo power bogies.  The CoCo bogies have clearance issues with the centre wheels so the ring might not clear the wheels either.

[RAF96]

The problem with the Co-Co I have is the intermediate gear shaft intrudes into the motor housing recess so it is not possible to get a slim CD motor in there. Slim to provide clearance for the centre wheels.

Rob

[Bloodnok]

I've just salvaged a couple of these motors out of an old CD drive. How do I identify what voltage they should run at, and whether or not they are useful for remotoring old locomotives?

[Sir TophamHatt]

Someone will likely be along shortly giving you the answer, but I'd say just use them.

I didn't identify the voltage on any of the three I did and don't know the voltage of the 8 or so I have in the drawer.

 

You could try ty[ing the part numbers into the internet and seeing if you can find any info about them.

[Simon G]

I googled them and the 97080 is 12V.  Couldn’t find anything for the 97060 ,but it is probably similar.  I would try testing it with a 9V PP3 battery and see how it runs.  If you are not sure about it, try putting a resistor is series before connecting to a 12V supply.  I have run a motor probably rated at 5V with a 20 ohm resistor to power a Lima 121 railcar.  It runs very well, and being a railcar, it doesn’t need loads of power to pull trucks or coaches.

[RAF96]

Here is a guide for my conversion of an HST (DCC so I am able to trim the max voltage to it)...

 

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/article11.html

 

Beware of the motor voltage as some can be as low as 3v or as high as 12v. I presume you could work out these limits based on the armature resistance value.

Some of my motors came from old PCs but the slim ones I needed for the 6-wheeler locos/bogies came from Finland complete with pinion gears - I'm happy with them.

[Bloodnok]

On 18/07/2019 at 22:39, Simon G said:

I googled them and the 97080 is 12V.  Couldn’t find anything for the 97060 ,but it is probably similar.  I would try testing it with a 9V PP3 battery and see how it runs.  If you are not sure about it, try putting a resistor is series before connecting to a 12V supply.  I have run a motor probably rated at 5V with a 20 ohm resistor to power a Lima 121 railcar.  It runs very well, and being a railcar, it doesn’t need loads of power to pull trucks or coaches.

Your google-fu is obviously better than mine. I couldn't find anything for either of them.

The 97080 ran slowly on a single AA battery. By the time I got to three AA batteries, it was running at what I thought was quite some speed. From this I concluded it could well be a 6v motor.

The 97080 is now in a Lima 73, using a Scalextric pinion gear, a DCC Concepts 8-pin harness, and a spare blanking plug from another loco. I used the original screws from the CD drive straight into the original Lima plastic.
It seems to work fine on DC so far at lower settings. The test track is only 6ft long, so it's not like I'm winding the controller out too far. The eventual plan is to chip it rather than running it on DC.

[GWR-fan]

I have converted several Lima class 52 to a CD drive type motor from Finland.  Being a three-axle block I found that the thicker motor interfered with the middle axle wheel set.   Not having a slimmer type motor I replaced the middle wheel set with the wheels from the older Hornby HST models which are a slightly smaller diameter.  These wheels are out of sight and the smaller diameter barely noticeable.

[7013]

My Lima Cl 60 has a modeltorque motor replacement which has done well for a few years but it is now showing signs of age. I tried Diesel-Trains for a replacement but they do not appear to be operating any longer. I would like to keep my old Cl 60 going so would appreciate any suggestions on where I could source a replacement motor.