dj_crisp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hi I'very just started my HST project... A lima Intercity Swallow and an Intercity Executive set. This'll keep me busy for a while! I'm updating the lima mk3s and will be fitting shawplan's window frames. It means that I'll need to paint match Lima's Executive Grey and Swallow Grey. Does anyone know a good paint match? Also on the executive version I noticed that lima painted a beige strip onto the roofs. I can't find a prototype for this... is it correct? A number of mine have damaged roofs so I think I just need to respray them into the same grey as the side... but wondered if I should include the beige. Cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hi there - I think RailMatch Executive Light Grey is a good match. Keep us up to date on your progress - I'm using Lima Mk3s with Hornby HSTs and I would be keen to see your work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic79 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think that the very early version of Executive livery had this arrangement, with the beige on the edge of the roofs as Lima have modelled it. This was the experimental version with the yellow on the power cars extending over the bodyside grills (later these were executive dark grey which became standard for this livery). This photo shows a power car in the early Executive livery and it looks like the coaches have the beige roof edges: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40011/6127811482/ Note also the InterCity 125 letting is not solid white per the later version. In fact it matches the outline version on the previous blue grey livery. The Lima roofs separate from the bodies so you could dismantle and respray just the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Thanks! I shall try out Railmatch and see how it looks. I'm just experimenting with one coach at the moment before attempting sound a batch. Will put up some photos when I'm a bit further down the line. Thanks for the photo... really helpfull. that's the first I've seen with the beige being a bit higher on the roof line. I'm attempting a the revised version so I think I'll simply the whole roof. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Depends if you're using an airbrush or not. Railmatch do the colours if you have one, if not I used Volvo dark grey from halfords which is a good match Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks! I'm always interested in using halfords rattle cans for bulk spraying of roofs and things like that. Which livery did you match volvo dark grey with? cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks! I shall try out Railmatch and see how it looks. I'm just experimenting with one coach at the moment before attempting sound a batch. Will put up some photos when I'm a bit further down the line. Thanks for the photo... really helpfull. that's the first I've seen with the beige being a bit higher on the roof line. I'm attempting a the revised version so I think I'll simply the whole roof. Cheers! I have one, if anybody is interested. This was taken at Reading, and if you ignore the dark patch from the power car exhaust, you can see the grey band becoming more noticeable further along the train. Hopefully a close-up will illustrate the point better And even closer, it is much more noticeable on the buffet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 That is an excellent spot.. Very interesting and the band is noticeable on the buffet. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well project HST has started.... This ones going to take a while (I've ordered some ultrascale wheels.... but i bet they arrive before this is finished) Basic project will be upgrading two lima HST sets, one in exec the other swallow livery. They'll comprise of about 5 coaches each due to my space limitations. The warning panel yellow was really rough where the paint had been badly sprayed by lima so I started sanding it down assuming I'd have to respray. It smoothed off nicely and I've coated it with a satin varnish and l think I'm going to get away with it. The white line has has been touched up in parts and handrail picked out. So onto a colour match test for my MK3s.... I just happen to be repsraying a Vi 37 into general grey and thought I'd try Halfords volvo dark grey for the roof. This has also been varnished and I don't think it's a good match for the Lima power car... And then looking at the power car the grey is quite dark, closer to falcon grey of the swallow livery. My experimental MK3 has had it's window frames removed and sanded down. Next time I'm going to gloss varnish the red and white strip as the "protective" masking tape took the lining clean off in places!! So I'm not sure what to do with the paint match issue as I want the set to look like a.. set. cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 It's hard to tell from the photo Will, just how far out that Halfords grey is. Agreed, it doesn't quite match the Lima paintwork, but who's to say Lima got it absolutely right. if you're reasonably happy that the Halfords rattle can will give a good impression of executive dark grey, then another option that could be open for you is to respray the Power car part of the livery that is Exec Dark Grey. You would have to remove the Inter-city lettering and then mask up the rest of the power car, but that may be the lesser of the two evils, if you don't have an airbrush. RailTec transfers do some fantastic products, and the ones you would want are here: http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=496- usual disclaimer applies in that I have nothing to do with RailTec, other than being a satisfied customer. Even if you did you use either Precision or Railmatch Exec Dark Grey with an airbrush, there's nothing to say that you would get an exact match with the Lima Power Car anyway. If it were me, I would respray the Power car so that it matches the rest of your Mk3's. hope this helps cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi Andy Thanks! I've resprayed a Mainline liveried 37 used exec grey and it has a brown tint to it which doesn't match the power car. Looking at the photos that were kindly posted, the Lima colour looks closer to the prototype to me so I'm tempted to try and find something. cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railtec-models Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi Andy Thanks! I've resprayed a Mainline liveried 37 used exec grey and it has a brown tint to it which doesn't match the power car. Looking at the photos that were kindly posted, the Lima colour looks closer to the prototype to me so I'm tempted to try and find something. cheers Will Remember of course that the choice of primer colour will have a significant impact on the end result. I'm sure it's been well documented elsewhere but if memory serves, you'll see different results depending on whether you use white, grey or red primers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I think that the very early version of Executive livery had this arrangement, with the beige on the edge of the roofs as Lima have modelled it. This was the experimental version with the yellow on the power cars extending over the bodyside grills (later these were executive dark grey which became standard for this livery). This photo shows a power car in the early Executive livery and it looks like the coaches have the beige roof edges: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40011/6127811482/ Note also the InterCity 125 letting is not solid white per the later version. In fact it matches the outline version on the previous blue grey livery. The Lima roofs separate from the bodies so you could dismantle and respray just the roof. I had seen that version of the early (1984?) livery on power cars before, Lima did a model of it, but had not seen photos of the coaches with the light grey / beige extended on to the roof. I assumed it was an error on the model. As part of my refurbishment of my Lima coaches I am removing the beige from the roof section to model what I recall on the ECML mid 80s being more typical. Nothing more sophisticated than sellotape is nedeed to remove the beige on the roof. Would I be correct in thinking the early version on the power cars and the beige extending on the roof were a Western Region detail. Lima also did some or all of their ScotRail Mk 3s in the same way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Guys, think this needs clearing up, re where the livery sits on a Mk3 coach side. Have a look at this fot I've found on Flickr, it shows quite closely what I'm going to say: https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/12292344884/in/photolist-oAXn1G-ta3UAu-dqnASM-7uzfzv-dGWAqA-a2M3df-txrZWH-tw5YvV-kRDpMJ-bnGxQm-bLE4fF-jCcCoq-phtHSY-6Zc8au-fAszgo-f5UyKn-gXSxPh-q77K7o-4BSfEV-jHeJM2-a6kmgR-74mhs8-61zBgo-aF9Vkk-6nMcpa-bzdaua-bd32Pp-bF5U1x-aL6jKP-jDucZL-avozGe-jhjoRv-oyfnzQ-jhjiSn-qdgLds-a6BnYa-ee3keW-ih9dvD-rz9T5s-jJetSL-9oUBvv-oZPUPf-99gfvW-puJnD9-img24T-cutoZ1-jhkh5w-4oK1Bf-ahNZkb-jC9BQg Basically, both Lima/Hornby and Joueff have manufactured their Mk3's in such a manner that the split between bodyside and roof is at exactly the top of the coach side end doors - see photo, you can see the line in the Yellow strip that signifies the top of the door opening. Whichever livery you are modelling, both Rail Blue and Executive/Swallow use the same dimensions. What this means for us modellers, is that the ( Rail blue/Yellow or Red stripe/Executive Light Grey ) band has to be taken onto the roof of either the Lima or Joueff Mk3 - if not, the band at the top of your coach will be too narrow, therefore making the livery look very wrong indeed. For simplicity's sake, the band at the top is roughly split into 2/3rd's on the bodyside and 1/3rd on the roof section. I have had exactly the same connundrum with the two HST rakes that I will need for Queen St, and also the Shove rakes ( where I'm using Joueff Mk3's ) and there is no easy remedy. I have somewhat reluctantly come to the conclusion that I will have to spray up the coach sides, to just above window height with Exec Dark Grey, then glaze the things ( making sure that the laserglaze is well and truly stuck in ) then glue the roof to the rest of the coach and VERY carefully sand it down along the joint. Then and only then, can I spray the Exec Light grey band, First class Yellow band or the red band for the restaurant coach. Unless of course, someone can suggest a better and easier way of doing it! cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Andy Thanks for your excellent info... Im definetly going to try and replicate thus Cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Hi Will, so sorry I havnt replied earlier. I used the Volvo grey for intercity swallow livery, I should have read the post properly. I did use it on a class 86, so it looked ok. Lima didn't seem to change the colour of the dark grey on their coaches between exec and swallow, I have mixed and matched rakes and can't tell the difference, so who knows if they used the correct colour for either! On some of my HSTs it almost looks black Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Just to pick up on your last post Marcyg, and for general interest, there was no difference between Executive livery and Swallow livery where coaches were concerned - both livery variants employed Executive Dark grey for the main band and Executive Light grey for the lower band, so Lima were correct in keeping the same shade of Dark Grey on their products - but of course, nobody still knows what exactly that shade of dark grey was! Locos were slightly different in that the Executive Light Grey was replaced with Silver White, and of course HST Power Cars were classed as locos, so they got the Silver White treatment as well. cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic79 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I've found another photo that shows how the early Executive livery encroached further onto the roof than either the blue/grey or later Executive and Swallow liveries. This is how Lima modelled all of their Executive Mk3s. This shows a good comparison between the blue/grey TF on the left with the early Exec TLUK on the right (though I appreciate the TLUK was a one-off): https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3867405782/sizes/o/ On the TF and the TLUK you can cleary see the rainstrip at the top of the door with the yellow stripe on the TF passing over this with about 1/3 above it per Andy's post above. On the TLUK the beige goes way above this and in fact you can then see a seamline above the rainstrip which I assume is the join between the body and the roof, with the beige covering the lower edge of the roof. Another view here: http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v23/p268046166-3.jpg The best close up that I can find of a Lima Mk3 is of a Limby blue/grey sleeper which shows that same seam (albeit a bit heavy given that it is a physical join between the roof and body mold): https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R4282_3.jpg Finally, compare these two Lima mk3s, the first in early Executive, the second in Swallow: http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/Rails-Vault/media/2015%20Items/January%202015%20Items/January%208th%202015%20Items/074_zps2ce45825.jpg.html http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/Rails-Vault/media/2015%20Items/January%202015%20Items/January%208th%202015%20Items/077_zps0ddaa14e.jpg.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thanks everyone... awesome help. I never thought finding the right shade of grey would be so interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Thanks everyone... awesome help. I never thought finding the right shade of grey would be so interesting! Apparently that's what a lot of Women have been saying recently too........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 A bit of progress with the mk3s - Shawplan's frames fitted; Since this picture was taken I've sprayed primer over the top half of the coach, which meant masking and resulting in the end of the white lining! Will have to respray that. Currently I'm gently sanding a few areas that looked a little rough... Roof has also been primed after a little tidying. Also spent a bit of effort on adding an impression of the Automatic Wheel Slide Protection (WSP) system on the bogies; And painted; I assume the Automatic Wheel Slide Protection (WSP) system is correct for an HST set? If not I'll use these on my MK3 pullmans. I've only ever seen these on the right hand bogie as you're looking at the coach. I guess it's one per bogie and always right hand as you look at the side of a coach? Next step will be building a brassmasters bogie. Cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Any further progress mate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Hi Afraid not with my HSTs. My trial mk3 is waiting for respraying... but as I only spray outside it'll be a few months before that job is done. When I've escaped my job I've been busy with my other projects on my other thread. Although a set of ultrascales have just arrived for the power cars and I have a couple of class 25 chassis to convert so I plan to start that in the new year. Thanks for your interest and merry Christmas Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Very interesting read Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 How did you get on in the end mate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.