OO LNER Coronation Brass Kit Build Sydnope Scale Models

[grob1234]

So matching the exterior colours to the interior is not as daft as it might seem?!

[jwealleans]

What sticks in my mind are deep red carpets and bright green rexine interior shades. I have a feeling the sets were different internally, though.

 

What you've illustrated there is a Tourist Buffet, am I right, or a teak buffet?

[MikeTrice]

Those colours would be spot on for a D167 Buffet Car but not the Coronation.

Contemporary accounts from the time record the internal liveries as follows:

3rd class: uncut fawn moquette for the seats with the floors carpeted in green. Rexine in two shades decorates the walls.

1st class: One carriage is lined in Rexine, the surface of which has a texture giving a fine stippled effect in green.. Chairs are green uncut moquette finished in scarlet braid. Carpet is green with small trellis pattern picked out in scarlet. The second carriage has very dark rexine lower panels with upper walls and ceiling in cream with the Rexine and doors studded with silver nails.

Harris notes that the 3rd class carriages had stone for the upper walls and shagreen for the lower.

No mention is made of the interior colours of the observation car.

The restored 1719 however has been finished in shades of blue thus:
http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/images/1719monday1.jpg
http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/images/1719done1.jpg

[grob1234]

Thanks Mike, sounds pretty horrendous... how times change eh?!

 

I have to say personally I actually quite like the shades of blue, retro, without being over the top. 

 

PS, a quick google search for 1930's colour schemes brings this:

 

 

Quite a few of the colours you mention... Bottom left in particular.

Edited July 9, 2015 by grob1234

[grob1234]

Hi Folks,

 

Started the long process today of applying the foil lining to the coaches. Taken an hour or so to do this:

 

 

Hopefully you can see where I'm going with it! Also, all the brass sides are now nicely primed.

[grob1234]

Hi Folks, sorry on lack of recent updates, I was in need of some bits and pieces, and that involves a 9000 mile round trip to my local model shop! There are of course some very good ones here in Hong Kong, but not all of them sell the bits I need. Fortunately, my work provides me with the transport to go to such places as Sydney (HobbyCo) to enable me to get 'stuff'!

 

First of all, an admission - sadly the foil method will not be totally viable (I can hear the sniggers in the cheap seats at the back!). Couple of reasons for this: firstly, it is exceptionally time consuming - I estimate 5 hours per coach x 9 = a lot of man hours, not to mention tedium, which can sometimes halt projects. Secondly, as the foil is so thin, when you place one layer on top of another, it stands out like a sore thumb, and I would not be happy with the finish. 

 

So, we revert to plan B. Paint the trim with chrome paint, mask (much easier) with thin strips, and use the foil for the lettering. Why use foil for the lettering? Well, the paint I'm using will have a top coat of about one micron, and so when I rub through the overlying paint, it'll be incredibly easy to rub through the chrome paint too, ruining the finish. The foil will be much more durable, and looks good too, as it conforms perfectly to the raised lettering. 

 

I have used the metal paint before (Alclad 2), and its excellent, but I hadn't tried one of their high shine finishes so I needed to experiment. The key to a really good shine is preparation. Make sure the surface is totally smooth, then prime. Sand again, 1200 wet n dry, and even 2000 or 4000 if you want to go to town. Then a gloss black enamel, looking for a thin even coat. This shows the sort of thing I mean. I have been lazy, and dust has contaminated the sample, but you get the idea: (all of this has to go through an airbrush BTW)

 

 

Once the enamel has hardened you can spray the Alclad 2 chrome. Spray at about 15psi, in light mists to build up the colour.

 

The drying time of the enamel will depend on how well the paint has been thinned, the temperature and the type of thinner used. I used Tamiya gloss black enamel, and their enamel thinner. I believe just using white spirit or similar can lead to long drying times. Not a bad result:

 

 

Finally, I made a test sample of the colours that will be used on the model, which also allowed me to check how well the chrome took masking tape. LNER Garter blue and marlborough blue from Phoenix precision paints. These need thinning quite considerably for use in an airbrush, but if done correctly, they spray beautifully and cover the chrome with no issues whatsoever. As the paints are dull, I just sprayed a coat of Alclad light sheen over the top. On the left, the chrome that has been varnished has lost its shine. On the right, the chrome was masked and has kept its shine. I think the light sheen is too glossy for a model of this scale, even though the coaches were kept very clean, so I will probably tone it down with a little flat varnish in the mix too. The blues look a little off, but in real life they look spot on.

 

 

Also spoke to the people at Dart castings and my bits for the replacement bogies are on the way  

 

I hope to get a little more done over the next couple of days, including soldering white metal.... 

[grob1234]

Hello, got my MJT components today, and I have a couple of questions WRT the bogies, I was hoping some of the experts may be able to help me.

 

1. As I see it, the press stud fixing method does not allow me to adjust the ride height of the coaches should I need to, in order to compensate for inaccuracies in fitting of the mounting plate to the coach sides. In order to get round this, I was thinking of using a small bolt, like the picture below, which would be soldered into the bogie. The coach could then literally sit on the bolt without actually being secured to it. Is this a viable way of fitting the bogies to the coaches? Do any members have any success stories using the press studs as supplied?

 

2. There are two bearing positions, dropped and normal. The instructions mention using the top holes for 'dropped frames' for Gresley coaches. Would this apply to this set? (Probably a daft question, but I am bound to get it wrong, so apologies for asking this!!)

 

Image of what I was thinking of doing WRT fixing the bogies to the coach underside:

 

http://s170.photobucket.com/user/level5models/media/DSCF4810.jpg.html

[jwealleans]

Have a look back through my workbench thread. I've used these extensively on the carriages I've built for Grantham.  The only change I've had to make on some of them is to put a piece of etch under the male half of the presstud where it's soldered to the bolster, to give adequate clearance under the solebar.

 

You could make a plastic bolster to fit inside the brass MJT one and use that to adjust the height, fixing it with Araldite to both floor and bolster etch.

 

I like the presstud fixing method - once you get a bit of slop into it, it works very well and I've had no running problems with any of the carriages I've built.  I do use a dental burr to just run round the inside of the female half to give a little extra play, it helps a great deal.  Your bolts would work but I don't think there's any real advantage to doing them that way.

 

Use the dropped bearing position for Gresley bogie sides, these included.

[grob1234]

Thank you sir! Just the man I was hoping would reply.

 

The more I think about it, the easier it would be for me to use the press stud method as supplied. In fact, I'd probably be making my life harder by not using them. 

 

I've got the articulation system from MJT too, as you suggested, and it looks like it'll all go together quite nicely. Also, the white metal kit bogie sides that I have should fit with a little fettling, so all is good.

 

I'll have a go at getting a bogie done tomorrow, and see how it looks. Thanks for the continued support, and source of knowledge, it's greatly appreciated.

[Paul Cram]

I have several coaches running on these bogies. I adjust the ride height by packing out the bolster seating. Never had a problem in over 30 years.

[grob1234]

Hi everyone.

 

Again, sorry for the lack of recent updates, work, planning a wedding and other stuff has got in the way of modelling a little, but not too much that I haven't been able to make some progress.

 

First of all, last week this lot arrived from http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/index.html and also a few 8BA nuts, bolts and washers from the excellent http://www.ajreeves.com/ on line shop.

 

 

Nice service from Dart, but they don't like responding to emails. However, when I phoned them, they were most helpful. 

 

The main progress, which I am most pleased about is the fact we have a rolling chassis at last! After making a couple of the MJT bogies, I am able to assemble them with ease, and I am really impressed with the smoothness of the running. I had trouble soldering the first couple of press studs onto the bolsters, so the first two bogies are fitted with bolts. I have subsequently got the hang of soldering the press studs, so all the rest of the rake will be fitted accordingly. 

 

 

As you may notice, the ride height is not quite right at the moment. I will wait until all the coaches are built, and then adjust the ride height as required. Also, the gap between the coaches is wrong, ie too far apart. I will attach the couplings to the drawbars, which brings the coaches in much tighter. They are being designed to negotiate set track radius 3 as a minimum. We can still bring them about 4-5mm (300-380mm in scale) closer together based on this pic:

 

 

My final 'triumph' if you will allow me is the flooring system. Its nothing new or revolutionary, but I am very pleased with it. The requirement was for a removable floor, but the problem was the fairings on the side of the coach. I have found that a strip of aluminium, with the plasticard floor epoxied onto the top provides a strong and lightweight basis for the chassis of the coach. It is affixed by 4 8BA screws, which screw into captive nuts, which in turn are soldered onto a brass strip that is epoxied into the coach ends. I am able to achieve a very small gap either side of the floor, as the fairings flex, allowing a good size well fitting floor to be slid in.

 

Here you can see the floor in place, the bogie loosely positioned, the screws, and also the small gap between the coach side and the floor. I will be using http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/ for the various seats and tables within the coaches.

 

 

I have now got just 4 remaining bogies to assemble. Fortunately I am able to use the white metal bogie castings, with a little modification, so that is really pleasing. I will assemble the rest of the coaches, with the exception of 'the tail', and soon, we should be ready for the fun part. Painting!

 

TTFN

[jwealleans]

That looks very much as I would have done it. The articulation pieces are (I think) supposed to slot behind a buffer beam, so you can move both of yours back quite some way.

 

Have you thought about the fairings between the carriages yet? The Mailcoach kit used foam rubber with a flexible plastic covering as I recall. I did fit them to mine but they had a tendency to fall off.

 

What was the issue with the pressstuds?

[grob1234]

Yes, they will go behind the buffer beam, which should make them nice and close. They'll be calibrated to radius 3 set track as a minimum which should give them a reasonably prototypical look, although I may even go for radius 4 if I feel they are still too far apart.

 

WRT to the inter-coach fairings, yes I have thought about them, but not really come up with anything that would be suitable! Do you have any ideas?

 

My initial problem with the press studs was c**p soldering on my part. I was tinning the base plate with solder, then applying heat to the press stud to attach it. But it didn't work. My new technique gives a really nice ring of solder all around the press stud, and secures it in place very firmly. It's very easy now, I just had to figure it out! It meant that I trashed a couple of the studs, hence the bolts. But they seem to work very nicely anyway.

 

The kit comes with small brass door handles. I was wondering if I should attach these (along with the door grab handles) before or after painting?

[jwealleans]

No better ideas for the fairings, tbh. It's getting them to spring back after being compressed which is the problem.

 

Door handles are a matter of personal preference - Larry and a lot of the pros solder them on in the brass and then paint over them and scrape them back. I leave them and superglue them on after painting. It's what you find easier, but I can't see that having them on helps masking up or lining on teak vehicles.

[grob1234]

Yes and the small relative size of them leaves little in the way of flex... I'll keep on thinking! 

 

As this is going to be a mask fest of a paint job, I'll do the door handles etc after painting, should make it easier. Bits will just get knocked off if I try and do them before hand.

[Phil Brighton]

The kit and the build are looking great. My streamline trains are/will be based on the Mailcoach kits but I will watch with interest if you do tackle the fairings between the coaches. I must say I have never seen an effective representation of them but that's not to say it hasn't or can't be done. I will shamelessly copy any good ideas!

Phil

[grob1234]

Hello Folks,

 

I realise it has been an embarrassingly long time since the last update. Various reasons for this, but I have been working away on things in the background.

 

At the moment, we have all 8 coaches constructed. Removable floors fitted, all bogies made and painted (just need a little filler here and there), and I am currently in the process of aligning the coaches, and fitting the centre bogies to each pair. On coaches A and B, I have got the distance between coaches just right, and they are able to negotiate radius 3 curves as planned. These are now the 'master' coaches, and all the rest will be aligned to them. I have soldered most aspects of the kit, which provides a much stronger join than the glue I originally planned to use. My new Antex 660D is perfect for the job. Next will be a final prime and sand, then painting, and the construction of the coach interiors. I hope to get a bit more done (work permitting) over the next month or so. I apologise for the awful pictures, its getting dark here now, and I was late in taking them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking.

[micklner]

Fairings , Bogies and Wheel centres should be Precison Mid Grey, or are the bodies in Primer hard to tell.

 

Nice set.

[grob1234]

Fairings , Bogies and Wheel centres should be Precison Mid Grey, or are the bodies in Primer hard to tell.

 

Nice set.

 

Hi Mick, 

 

Is that for the LNER Jubilee set?

[micklner]

Hi Mick, 

 

Is that for the LNER Jubilee set?

Yes 

 

Look at page 3 on my LNER Model workbench thread link below.

 

 

 

Edit

 

Whoops getting the sets mixed up , I blame the manflu I am suffering from at the moment , please ignore !!

Edited October 1, 2015 by micklner

[ianmaccormac]

Was the original fairing between the carriages some sort of flexible rubber? Have you thought of using a thin rubber to replicate this? Cycle inner tube?Surgical glove? Durex thing? What colour does it have to be?

Just catching up on what you have been doing after a couple of months. Looking good.

Cheers

Ian

Edited September 30, 2015 by ianmaccormac

[31A]

I was wondering how you were getting on; good to see good progress is being made! 

[grob1234]

Was the original fairing between the carriages some sort of flexible rubber? Have you thought of using a thin rubber to replicate this? Cycle inner tube?Surgical glove? Durex thing? What colour does it have to be?

Just catching up on what you have been doing after a couple of months. Looking good.

Cheers

Ian

 

I presume so Ian. The problem being the small size of the gap. On the straight, the pairs of coaches are about 8mm apart I guess, however at min radius, the pairs of coaches virtually touch on the inside of the curve, so there would need to be an awful lot of flex in whatever material I use. Maybe it will hit me one day, but I am not sure at the moment.

 

Yes 

 

Look at page 3 on my LNER Model workbench thread link below.

 

Mick, the colours you mention are correct for the Jubilee, however this is a coronation set. The coaches themselves are just in grey PE primer at the moment. The bogies, and wheel centres are black, as will be the lower fairings when it goes to the paint shop.

[Markeg]

Progress is coming on and looking good. 

Wheel centres were crimson red on the Coronation, like the locos that pulled them. A4's in garter blue.

 

I have painted teak coach wheel centres using a fine paint brush while turning the wheel with my thumb or finger. But will paint the Coronation wheel sets before I make the bogies.

Mark in Oz

[grob1234]

Progress is coming on and looking good. 

Wheel centres were crimson red on the Coronation, like the locos that pulled them. A4's in garter blue.

 

I have painted teak coach wheel centres using a fine paint brush while turning the wheel with my thumb or finger. But will paint the Coronation wheel sets before I make the bogies.

Mark in Oz

 

I think there is a bit of debate about what colour the wheel centres are on the coronation. The notes I have show black. That's not to say they weren't crimson originally, but I feel they can be reasonably painted black, given the grime and dirt that would have accumulated. Plus its too late for me to change it now! Its surprising how little of the wheels you can actually see through the bogie side frames.

 

Edit: to quote from Michael Harris in LNER Carriages pg67: 'underframe fairings, bogies and wheels were black'

Edited October 1, 2015 by grob1234