Dave Holt Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 "Hi Roger, Sorry, 3 on the right and 4 on the left. I miss-interpreted the photo looking along the foot plate. The one furthest away is actually the one between the pipes from the clacks. I wonder which MN Dave is involved with? Here's a couple of shots of the left side of Can Pac which might help. This shows where the first two are from front to back. The second and third ones are harder to see due to the pipework running along the footplate. I do not know what these pipes are for and I believe they were not on during BR days. Possibly they are for some kit that has been added for main line running in preservation. Perhaps Dave can throw some light on that. However, the third one is directly below the N in navy, and the forth between the last two lined boiler bands." I'm fairly sure the upper, copper, pipe is to do with the air braking equipment and was not there in BR days. The steel conduit pipes attached to the LH running plate are one for the electric lighting and two for AWS wiring. The lighting conduit has a splitting junction box alongside the smokebox front with one tube going over the top of the smokebox for the lamps mounted to the smoke deflectors and smokebox front (at the top) and the other leg runs down the edge of the main-frames to the three lamps above the buffer beam. Dave. PS. One needs to be careful when using preserved locos to determine details for locos in original service as various changes are often made, either to suit modern operating requirements (such as air brakes for main line running) or for expediency (such as non-authentic fittings, metric bolts, etc., which are commercially available and can save cost and time). Of the preserved MN's, one might expect Clan Line to be the most reliable example since it went straight into preservation and was not stripped of all the non-ferrous parts at Barry. However, even Clan Line has had replacement parts and some mods to suit its main line role. One area to be particularly wary of on preserved Bulleids is the injectors and delivery pipes under the cab. Several examples have been fitted with injectors sourced from South Africa which, whilst the same make as the originals, are a different geometry and result in having to re-route the attached pipework. Clan Line has the original arrangements as do several others, including P&O, because a group of owners went to the trouble of having some new replicas of the originals manufactured specially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Plee for help again! Does anyone have photos of the Injectors and the associated pipe work. I understand the points raised by Dave so Clan Line would be good. What I really need is the pipework from the injectors that goes behind the drawbar but I know that is a lot to ask. Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Have a look at Richard Derry's 'Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics' page 38. There is a good photo of the rear of 35020 during re building that shows the run of the pipes under the drag beam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Have a look at Richard Derry's 'Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics' page 38. There is a good photo of the rear of 35020 during re building that shows the run of the pipes under the drag beam. Thanks for that - yes I have the book and the photo on page 33 also helps a bit. However neither show clearly the issue I have. Of the two pipes that run under the cab to the footplate where does the lower one start? I would guess from the photo's that it comes from the rear most injector and is subbject to some tight turns. I have some good photo's of Can Pac but as David says the injectors are not original items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 A further photo on page 38 also shows this pipework. The attached shot of our injectors shows some of the external pipes. The water feed pipe to the rear (side-on) injector comes from the RH tender hose connection via a series of tight right-angle bends, whilst the LH tender hose connection has the sloping pipe to the forward (inner) injector. That's the pipe in the middle of the photo which curves past the overflow pipe and then turns vertical to the square flange at the top centre of the photo. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sorry, got the water feed pipe to the rear injector a bit simplified. This revised sketch is a better representation. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Brilliant - many many thanks Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Slightly off topic. Just seen on Graham Muzz blog that P&O was steamed today and moved for the first time under her own power. http://grahammuz.com/ Keith HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Slightly off topic. Just seen on Graham Muzz blog that P&O was steamed today and moved for the first time under her own power. http://grahammuz.com/ Keith HC Yes! I was there. Most satisfying to see it all coming together. Still lots to do though - not least fit the centre connecting rod - it was running as a 2 cylinder loco today. Rather an odd exhaust beat; 2, gap, 2, gap, etc. Never-the-less, it was able to haul a diesel shunter, attached in case of need for assistance or braking effort. Not needed at all! Will try to get some photos of injector pipework tomorrow. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Dave Think I have worked it out OK now. Your sketch together with photos I had confirm where everything goes. Have set about doing the pipe work and have hit a snag. I can model the diagonal pipe that goes to the bottom of the drag beam but if I do I can't disconect the chassis from the footplate as there is a large section of the chassis, that holds the mounting bolt, hard up against the drag beam. Not sure how I will solve but will fit the other three in accordance with your sketch. Congrats on the success - wish I had been able to see it. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Rods and Motion parts arrived today fromm Premier and very nice they are too. Assembled connecting rods and fitted to wheels - perfect no binding at all. Have now built up the slide bar and its mounting bracket and fitted the connection rods. Also part completed the expansion bracket and link. Have to get some 3/32 rod to complete as there didn't seem to be any in the kit. Can't get it till Thursday as have no car at the moment. I intend to alter the link so as to show half forward - don't like seeing rod at neutral when moving. Will next assemble all the other motion parts together with rivets so I can get it all together when I get the rod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Glad you've figured out the injector stuff. Just to provide some further info, I photographed our injector piping today, as shown in the following: General view of delivery pipes under cab side. These are 57 mm o/d. The steam pipes from the manifold in the cab to the injectors are 45.6 mm o/d. And side view of injectors: A view looking forward from alongside the tender. The two dark pipes in the foreground are the steam heating pipe and part of the vacuum brake system, on the tender itself. Two views from under the loco. The water supply pipe and overflow pipes are all 70 mm o/d. Finally a view looking across from the LHS between loco and tender. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Many thanks - just hope I can do the bends as well as the full size! Have decided that the way round the long diagonal pipe is to have a separate pipe attach it to the chassis that will finish just behind the injectors so that it will detach with the frame but when together will not notice that the pipe is in two parts. Thats the theory anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Dave - a while back you stated 'You'll have to be careful which loco/time period you choose to match the later type boiler with the early tender.' This has been giving me some trouble as in my first post I stated that I was going to name the model United States Line. However I now realise that this loco never had a 5000 gal tender. I was also unaware that there was a material difference in the boilers on these loco's - I know they were changed about but had always thought that externaly they were the same. My issue now is that I can only name it after ther first 10 as they were the only ones to have this tender. My era is 56-60 so I think most still had these tenders at that time. P&O would fall into this bracket - do you know of any photos showing P&O with a 5k tender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Dave - a while back you stated 'You'll have to be careful which loco/time period you choose to match the later type boiler with the early tender.' This has been giving me some trouble as in my first post I stated that I was going to name the model United States Line. However I now realise that this loco never had a 5000 gal tender. I was also unaware that there was a material difference in the boilers on these loco's - I know they were changed about but had always thought that externaly they were the same. My issue now is that I can only name it after ther first 10 as they were the only ones to have this tender. My era is 56-60 so I think most still had these tenders at that time. P&O would fall into this bracket - do you know of any photos showing P&O with a 5k tender? Doolish, Your model has the later type boiler with rear taper (Boiler Nos. 1100 to 1120), originally fitted to the second and third batch locos but later swapped to some of the first batch. The 5000 gallon tenders (Nos 3111 to 3120) were kept with their original (first batch) locos till well into the 1960's, when some were re-allocated to the later locos. From info in the Derry book, it seems that for your stated period, you have the choice of locos 35001, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10. I'm not sure if you have a particular preference for a specific loco, but there's a good photo of 35010 in 1957 on page 69 which clearly shows the boiler (see reflection line - you can clearly see the boiler taper is at the back of the barrel)/tender combination you have. (Just see the size of the coal visible in the tender! The fireman would have been busy with the coal pick on that trip! Strangely, photos of 35006 in BR service are not that common. It spent its entire career at Salisbury and seemed to work mainly down towards Exeter and somehow avoided the camera lens to a large extent. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Just thought of a further complication. You've added valve spindle pockets to the sloping front running plate. This was a late modification, some years after the original rebuilding. Unfortunately, although it is mentioned in several books on these locos, no dates are given, even in the works summaries in the Derry book. A photo of 35010 (my suggested loco), taken in August 1960 clearly shows that the pockets had not yet been fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Many thanks for that. My book 'Locomotives in detail - Merchant Navy' gives a date of 'after July 1962' for the pockets - presumably gained from photographs. If I model 10 I will have to get extra large lumps of coal! Again many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Also beware the dates for fitting AWS (battery box on front running plate and conduit along LH running plate) and speedometers. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Talking of coal how did this get past a loading gauge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sorry no pictures of progress as it has been minimal. In fact its almost on the way to the bin! Having huge issues with the alignment of the cylinders to slide bar as they seem to be about 2mm out of true. Have spoken to MOK who say there is no issue and as there are some 350 of these kits sold it must be me! Have thought up a solution but it is fairly drastic and non returnable, so taking time to ascertain if there is another way. Would be realy interested to hear from anyone who has built this kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Well I tried another solution to the motion and to a degree it has worked. I have managed to drop the cylinders by about 0.75mm and installed the suspension link bracket with a 0.35 washer under it, the end result is that the motion now moves freely when assembled to the frame. A slight clearance issue with the front driver but I can solve that. Assembled the frame to the footplate and I now have a slight issue - I suspect the footplate is forcing the suspension arm bracket down as it is now higher that it should be. However I think we are moving forward so if I keep going it should all sort itself out. No more today as I have to prepare my stock for a show tommorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Well I tried another solution to the motion and to a degree it has worked. I have managed to drop the cylinders by about 0.75mm and installed the suspension link bracket with a 0.35 washer under it, the end result is that the motion now moves freely when assembled to the frame. A slight clearance issue with the front driver but I can solve that. Assembled the frame to the footplate and I now have a slight issue - I suspect the footplate is forcing the suspension arm bracket down as it is now higher that it should be. However I think we are moving forward so if I keep going it should all sort itself out. mn52.jpg No more today as I have to prepare my stock for a show tommorrow. C'mon! You can see the finishing post from there! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Good days running at the show yesterday has given me the spur to move on. Have solved the binding problem for the moment. The top of the bracket was being pushed down by the brass covers on the footplate. Have removed them for the moment to get all the motion working and will reassemble once it all works. Next problem is that the expansion bracket casting will not fit as it clashed with the middle driver - trimming reqired. Photo to follow when all fitted and the reversing bracket is mounted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doolish Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Total sense of humour failure. On fixing the Expansion links and reversing cranks all is now running smoothly. I went to the remaining frets to find the speedo bracket and noticed that still attached to the etches are a full set of etchings for a slide bar bracket. This started me thinking, so just for the hell of it I have made one up and guess what - yes its 2mm shorter than the ones I have fitted - hence the issue I have had. Now the 'notifications' at the beginning of the instructions list etch numbers that have been modified and I carefully marked all the unwanted ones on the etches before I started. I now note that although not listed by etch numbers there is a note regarding the 'motion bracket' but the instructions for assembly do not list 'motion bracket' only a 'slide bar bracket'. Now I realise that this is probably my own fault but having sent various emails to MOK and spent 10 minutes on the phone, when he basically said it was my problem, was this not pointed out to me. I have now, of course, made alterations to the fitting of the cylinders etc to ensure smooth running - changes that will not be easy to return to their original state. Why the .... am I continuing with this load or garbage? I suppose its because it cost a lot of money! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Don't give up,you are building a fantastic model of a fantastic class of locomotive. As a poor modeler (skills wise) I look on with awe at what you are doing as it is way beyond my abilities and can only dream about having such a great model. Keep on going. Keith HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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