Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[Daddyman]

I always use a very fine file on half-etched 12thou brass, filing along the edge rather than across it. For my half-etched footplate overlays I leave the tags until it is properly secured to the lower layer. It is much less liable to damage then. 

 

ArthurK

 

A magnifying glass is good too - I thought these plates were finished until I looked at them on my phone's magnifying glass. (They were the old King's Cross ones, that you had to cut off the backing.) The second photo shows one plate just about fully dressed. 

 

[mikemeg]

I don't think you can bore anyone by giving too much detail, Mike. You never know when there will be a technique that has never occurred to even an experienced someone else. 

 

I always file tabs off with the file not at right angles to the edge off which the tabs are being filed - filing at about 45 degrees to the edge, from the front and the back. I've had much better results since I started doing it that way - no ghosts of tabs, and no inadvertent over-filing. It would take ages to explain why but I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't do it that way already. 

 

Many thanks for the reassurance, it is much appreciated.

 

Like you, I also file across at 45 degrees, especially on full thickness brass and nickel silver. Lessens the bending moment and reduces the possibility of over filing. Another thing, which is worth mentioning, is to cut out the etched pieces on something fairly rigid i.e. a piece of .030" or .040" plasticard. This prevents the edge of the component, itself, from being distorted as the blade drives through and the piece separates from the etched sheet.

 

I feel I have been very fortunate in doing these various test builds. I've probably gained ten/fifteen years experience in only five years, having done so many; a very intensive training course. Thanks, in no small part, to Arthur and his kits.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 23, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

The front and middle pairs of splashers are now done. The front set are fold up etches with half etched scored lines on the insides of the splasher tops to allow the curves to be formed. Even so, it is worth spending time getting these curves right. I used the smooth and parallel tang of a 3/32" broach to form the ninety degree curve and finger pressure to form the larger radius curve, checking the profile against the splasher upstand until the profiles matched.

 

The splasher tops for the middle pair are simply rectangular straight pieces which must be formed to the curves to match the splasher upstands with finger pressure.

 

These pieces, once formed to their curves, should sit on tiny ledges on the lower footplate layer, allowing them to be positioned and soldered. The splasher tops sit inside the upstands, not on top of them.

 

Again, worth the time to get the curves, on the splasher tops, as closely as possible matching the curves on the splasher upstands, which themselves should be absolutely vertical, otherwise the whole splasher is out of true. Goes without saying, now, that the splashers are soldered on their insides!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 23, 2017 by mikemeg

[Worsdell forever]

Certainly agree with that; those 7mm builds are an example to everyone.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

They have the benefit of a lot more room to get the iron inside, something we struggle with. Plenty of heat and no more solder than is necessary helps.

[mikemeg]

They have the benefit of a lot more room to get the iron inside, something we struggle with. Plenty of heat and no more solder than is necessary helps.

 

Agreed, but they still have small parts to solder (sounds painful!), even in 7 mm.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Next section to assemble is the cab. I guess it is obvious that as much detail as possible should be added to this etch while it is flat i.e.before it is folded. Also, in soldering both the cabside beading and the window surrounds capillary action will do the work, as long as flux is applied.

 

So the cabside beading and the window surrounds should be added in the flat. I normally do this by simply holding the beading piece onto the cabside with a pair of tweezers, and soldering down the back edge. If the bit of the iron is held slightly off the perpendiclar then any solder overflow will alight on the inside edge of the cab, from which it can be very easily removed. After the beading is fully soldered, I then take off any cusp with a very fine file before a final finish with the glass fibre brush.

 

I do the window surrounds in the same way, except that with these the cusp should be removed before they are soldered in place. This removal needs to be done very carefully and is best done filing parallel to the window frame rather than across it. Again, the part is held in place with the tweezers and the solder applied from the back across the edge of the window surround/cab side, slightly off the perpendicular, again so that any overflow will settle on the back of the cab side. A very careful finish with the glass fibre brushjust to remove any solder which has leaked under the frame and the job is done..

 

While the cab sides/front are in the flat it is a good idea to open up the holes for the handrail knobs; much easier than when the cab is assembled.

 

Apologies for this photograph; I lit it, as I normally would, but there is a lot of reflection.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 23, 2017 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

simply holding the beading piece onto the cabside with a pair of tweezers, and soldering down the back edge. If the bit of the iron is held slightly off the perpendiclar then any solder overflow will alight on the inside edge of the cab, from which it can be very easily removed.

 

Mike, I'm not sure I follow this explanation but would very much like to understand as it evidently results in a neat job. What do you mean by soldering down the back edge? In this situation, I have either tinned the back of the beading / frame etch, or sometimes the main part, then applied the iron to the beading / frame, not the main part, with plenty of flux of course - not as neat a result, at least for me.

[Daddyman]

Good to see cab-side windows of the right shape on a J25 kit at last. 

[ArthurK]

Next section to assemble is the cab. I guess it is obvious that as much detail as possible should be added to this etch while it is flat i.e.before it is folded. Also, in soldering both the cabside beading and the window surrounds capillary action will do the work, as long as flux is applied.

 

So the cabside beading and the window surrounds should be added in the flat. I normally do this by simply holding the beading piece onto the cabside with a pair of tweezers, and soldering down the back edge. If the bit of the iron is held slightly off the perpendiclar then any solder overflow will alight on the inside edge of the cab, from which it can be very easily removed. After the beading is fully soldered, I then take off any cusp with a very fine file before a final finish with the glass fibre brush.

 

I do the window surrounds in the same way, except that with these the cusp should be removed before they are soldered in place. This removal needs to be done very carefully and is best done filing parallel to the window frame rather than across it. Again, the part is held in place with the tweezers and the solder applied from the back across the edge of the window surround/cab side, slightly off the perpendicular, again so that any overflow will settle on the back of the cab side. A very careful finish with the glass fibre brushjust to remove any solder which has leaked under the frame and the job is done..

 

While the cab sides/front are in the flat it is a good idea to open up the holes for the handrail knobs; much easier than when the cab is assembled.

 

Apologies for this photograph; I lit it, as I normally would, but there is a lot of reflection.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Agree with most of that it is essential to remove every last vestige of the tag on the window beading otherwise they doesn't fit properly into the half etch of the cab sides. These days I remove the tag with a sharp (Swan Morton) craft blade.They don't last long but I buy them by the  boxful. I often lightly tin these whilst they are still in the fret! The rear cab beading has no tags on its front edge so it doesn't have to have the tags on the rear edge fettled until it is firmly soldered to the cab sides. Another suggestion is to add the window rails top and bottom whilst still in the flat. It is much easier then. A new  departure for me is to add a half etch rivet strip to represent that on the real thing which connects the top and bottom sheets sheets of the cab side. Etched lines on the inside of the cab indicate where these go. (All?) NER cab side sheets were split horizontally below the handrails.

 

ArthurK

Edited September 23, 2017 by ArthurK

[Porcy Mane]

For those not familiar with NER cab assembly this Image may help.

Don't get many opportunities to see a cab in this condition showing the results of a lot of work carried out by the preservationists.

 

 

P

[micklner]

For those not familiar with NER cab assembly this Image may help.

Don't get many opportunities to see a cab in this condition showing the results of a lot of work carried out by the preservationists.

 

J27-2016-Rebuild-002-©PwD.jpg

 

P

 

Loco ?  J27 ?

Edited September 24, 2017 by micklner

[Daddyman]

To add to the cusp discussion, I cut everything possible from etches with XURON-PROFESSIONAL-PHOTO-ETCH-SCISSORS, recommended to me by Mike Edge. Sometimes you have to cut the fret itself in order to get access to a part. 

 

Some more views of a cab in a state of undress: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Horsetan]

Quite telling how quickly corrosion sets in.

[Porcy Mane]

Loco ?  J27 ?

 

Sorry. Yes it is. I meant to put it in the text but it is in the filename if you hover your mouse over the image.

 

Quite telling how quickly corrosion sets in.

 

I dunno about that. Considering this loco has spent the vast majority of the last 55 years stood outside I don't think it's doing too badly.

 

This was its condition when stored at Darlington just after withdrawal.

 

https://flic.kr/p/dv24D8

 

A bit of time spent at Marley Hill...

 

PT01_A No 5 at Beamish Museum Store, as it then was, Marley Hill Loco Shed with J21 65033 to rear_thumb by George Stephenson, on Flickr

 

before it underwent it's restoration in the early 1970's to do a little bit of steaming around Beamish museum then falling back into a state of disrepair. It received a cosmetic coat of paint for it's appearance at it's own ill fated "J21 Again" restoration appeal event in 2003.

 

 

Hopefully it's now back in more caring hands so it's future will not be orange.

 

P

[Daddyman]

These may be of some use too - a model J25 in a case at the NRM. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ArthurK]

NER Cabs

 

Another view of the J21 during its stay at Marley Hill.

 

 

And another of the cab internals. The cab layout of the J21, J24 and J25 were all very similar apart from all the gubbins relating to the vacuum brake which is visible at top right. Thank goodness we don't have that to worry about on the J25. Unless, that is, you are modelling one during their sojourn on the GWR during WW2. Those were vacuum fitted before dispatch to foreign climes. The equipment was removed on their return home.

 

Draincock lever at bottom right.

 

[mikemeg]

Another proving photo for the B16/1. On the last photo the vacuum pipe, from the smokebox to the cab, seemed to be slightly out of parallel with the handrail, over the firebox, before the reverse bend to the cab front. I also noticed that one of the mechanical lubricators was sitting about .010" higher than the other. So, hopefully, this photo will show whether both inaccuracies have been corrected. This done while things on the J25 are setting.

 

I find that digital photographs, especially when viewed at two or three times actual size, allow me to be far more critical of my models than simply looking at the actual model and help enormously in getting things parallel, perpendicular, straight, etc. And, the more of these I build, the more critical I get!!

 

There is something about burnished brass and nickel silver which is quite special.

 

I do wonder, given that Hornby have done the Q6, how long before one of the r-t-r outfits decide to take a look at the B16's because though they were native to the old NER and LNER, they really did get around a bit..

 

Cheer

 

Mike

Edited September 25, 2017 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

Mike, I'm not sure I follow this explanation but would very much like to understand as it evidently results in a neat job. What do you mean by soldering down the back edge? In this situation, I have either tinned the back of the beading / frame etch, or sometimes the main part, then applied the iron to the beading / frame, not the main part, with plenty of flux of course - not as neat a result, at least for me.

 

Excuse me if I give this technical question a gentle bump...

[mikemeg]

Excuse me if I give this technical question a gentle bump...

 

 

No problem. I would have answered your query, yesterday, but was not on my system for very long.

 

So let me try and answer this question, with the beading at the back of the cab. Firstly, with this method, neither the beading strip itself, nor the cab side are tinned but they are polished with the glass fibre brush prior to being soldered.  I then ensure that the beading is absolutely straight so that when held into the half etched area on the cabside, the whole length of the beading is in contact with the cabside.

 

I then position and hold the beading against the half etched rear of the cabside, using a pair of fine tweezers. I then apply flux to the rear of the beading and cabside. Finally, I run the iron down the back edge of the beading/cabside, using a very small amount of solder, with the soldering iron bit face perpendicular to the beading/cabside. I am therefore relying on capillary action for the solder to insert itself between the cabside and the beading and the solder should not travel further than the front edge of the beading.

 

To do one side of the cab I use so little solder that I will need to recharge the bit, with solder, perhaps two further times to travel the full depth of the beading/cab side.

 

This process also seals the rear of the beading and cabside, such that this join can then be dressed back with a very fine file to look as though the beading is totally integral with the cab side.

 

I should add that I do almost all of my soldering with a 2mm faced bit in the iron. By variously tilting the iron during the soldering process, then the bit can be made to act as something much narrower (though never wider) by reducing the area of the bit in contact with what is being soldered. That tilting is the key to this process!!!!

 

If this explanation still leaves you with unanswered questions, then just say and I wlll elucidate further.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 25, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

So, back to the J25.

 

As well as adding the various beadings to the outside of the cab with the cab etch flat, as Arthur pointed out, the insides of the cab should also be added to the cabsides in the flat. So the riveted plate jointing strips and the window runners can be added before the cab is folded to profile. I also opened up the holes for the handrail knobs, in the lower window runners, and will add the horizontal handrail knobs before the cab etch is folded to shape.

 

How is there no solder showing on those riveted strips and on the window runners?

 

Well, they ain't soldered to the cabsides - though the two layers of the runners are soldered together - they're stuck to the cabsides using superglue, though not the sliding window - I hope!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 25, 2017 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

No problem. I would have answered your query, yesterday, but was not on my system for very long.

 

So let me try and answer this question, with the beading at the back of the cab. Firstly, with this method, neither the beading strip itself, nor the cab side are tinned but they are polished with the glass fibre brush prior to being soldered.  I then ensure that the beading is absolutely straight so that when held into the half etched area on the cabside, the whole length of the beading is in contact with the cabside.

 

I then position and hold the beading against the half etched rear of the cabside, using a pair of fine tweezers. I then apply flux to the rear of the beading and cabside. Finally, I run the iron down the back edge of the beading/cabside, using a very small amount of solder, with the soldering iron bit face perpendicular to the beading/cabside. I am therefore relying on capillary action for the solder to insert itself between the cabside and the beading and the solder should not travel further than the front edge of the beading.

 

To do one side of the cab I use so little solder that I will need to recharge the bit, with solder, perhaps two further times to travel the full depth of the beading/cab side.

 

This process also seals the rear of the beading and cabside, such that this join can then be dressed back with a very fine file to look as though the beading is totally integral with the cab side.

 

I should add that I do almost all of my soldering with a 2mm faced bit in the iron. By variously tilting the iron during the soldering process, then the bit can be made to act as something much narrower (though never wider) by reducing the area of the bit in contact with what is being soldered. That tilting is the key to this process!!!!

 

If this explanation still leaves you with unanswered questions, then just say and I wlll elucidate further.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Thanks - I think I see. No doubt one of those things that's much easier to do than describe! Do I gather that in this kit the beading or window surround sits in a half-etched rebate in the cab side, providing some positive location? I'm comparing with, for example, a LRM (ex D&S) LYR brake van, where there's a rectangular window surround that just sits on the van end and has to be kept aligned with the window aperture while the solder flows.

[mikemeg]

Thanks - I think I see. No doubt one of those things that's much easier to do than describe! Do I gather that in this kit the beading or window surround sits in a half-etched rebate in the cab side, providing some positive location? I'm comparing with, for example, a LRM (ex D&S) LYR brake van, where there's a rectangular window surround that just sits on the van end and has to be kept aligned with the window aperture while the solder flows.

 

Yes, you are quite correct. Both the beading and the window surrounds fit within a half-etched rebate in the cab side providng a very positive guide to location. Every one of Arthur's kits, for tender prototypes, uses this same design for the cabside beading and window surrounds.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 25, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Having fitted the details to the cab sides, inside and outside, then the cab can be folded up to shape. Then the folded cab assembly can be checked against the footplate to ensure that it sits absolutely flat and that the tabs pass completely through the slots. Another one of my cardinal rules; never assume that anything fits exactly (even though it usually does!); always check it.

 

So the cab assembly is not yet soldered to the footplate, just checking!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 25, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Lastly, for today, the front and rear of the smokebox former are folded up and soldered with the hexagonal spacer located between. A check to ensure that the smokebox sits square and vertical on the footplate and that's it for today.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Perhaps worth mentioning that this kit makes provision for either the saturated or superheated boiler to be built and there are separate smokebox formers and wrappers for each. The superheated smokebox was longer than the saturated version and had provision for a snifting valve.

 

Also, there is a choice of half etched overlays, for the smokebox, for each boiler version. So a flush riveted and a protruding riveted smokebox overlay is included for each boiler type - four different overlays in all.

 

There are other provisions for the variations in prototype build, which can be described as we come to them.

 

What Arthur has done is to provide a single kit to cover the various different build states - dependant on whether Gateshead (the first twenty) or Darlington (all remaining examples) built the batch of locos - and the various modified states of these locomotives, throughout their lives i.e. a trumpet safety valve cover, Ross pop safety valves seated on a raised housing or Ross pop safety valves sat directly on top of the firebox.

 

Another photo of a J25, below.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2017 by mikemeg