BG John Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm trying to find photos or drawings of a narrow gauge sector plate, if such things actually existed. Pretty much all I come up with in a Google search is models. I need something suitable for a loco run round, ideally as it would have been in the early 1900s. It will be right at the front of the layout I'm just starting. Don't worry, Smokey Joe will be getting a proper cab and other 7mm scale bits, and the Hornby OO wagon chassis will get new bodies!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The FFestiniog has this creature in Minffordd yard: https://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/images/4/48/FRMinffordd4-WayfacingB.jpg I am not sure of its age, but I suspect it is post-preservation. Its operating mechanism is best described as "men with crowbars", so it doesn't actually move with stock on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Fascinating. I'd love to use something like it, but it's stretching imagination a bit far for moving locos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm trying to find photos or drawings of a narrow gauge sector plate, if such things actually existed... That's an expensive piece of kit at first cost and in maintenance, as compared to a point, a few more yards of plain track, and the land to put it on; and the usual reason for NG is to keep costs down to a level the poor traffic potential of the route can support. Sector plates were a relatively early feature of the railway, and went extinct as everything got heavier. It's an intrinsically weak design as compared to a turntable, which has the advantage of an inherently symmetrical and thus balanced construction and operation, and offers greater utility, for much the same expenditure. I recall a picture of a French example which survived relatively late on SG, used as a steam loco release in a confined suburban terminus location, but no picture that I can find online. None of which should prevent a fictional implementation, dafter things were built, see Listowel and Ballybunion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I wouldn't disagree with that, but it's the only way I can squeeze everything into 4ft x 1ft. The factory owners have encouraged the narrow gauge line to extend into their site, but allowed them to use a totally inadequate space. Not even a turntable will fit without taking away space that's needed for loading wagons! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Have you considered a traverser, probably even less prototypical, but it probably gives marginally more siding room as there's no 'fouling point' where the two tracks co-incide. http://www.railalbum.co.uk/diary/photos-2011-3.htm (8th photo down) http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/keng/kenhtml/High%20Peak%20Railway%20Walks/Steeple%20House%20Narrow%20Guage%20Railway.htm (3rd photo) It would provide something 'different', and there are a few examples at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2015 A small turntable will fit won't it? Just the ends of the two approach tracks need curving to suite the diameter of the table. I can't see it robbing too much unloading space either, as I would presume it would be one with a complete deck.... I love that half-point where the n-g leaves the s-g running line. Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 In pre-grouping days there was a very small turntable at Ventnor IOW which was used to release locos - but I believe never to turn them. It was just large enough for the 2-4-0T locos of the IWR, of course these were standard gauge. Looking at your "helicopter shot" I judge you have enough room for something similar. The problem with a sector plate would have been balance - the pivot being at the far end. A small turntable would be easier to build and easier to move with only manpower available. Of course the narrow gauge railways had all sorts of unconventional bits and bobs - I don't think you need feel too constrained. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't think the various model manufacturers would have produced one without prototypes to copy. But it may well be that they are only to be found on the continent, in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. A famous standard-gauge example in France at Boulogne-Maritime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2015 . I recall a picture of a French example which survived relatively late on SG, used as a steam loco release in a confined suburban terminus location, but no picture that I can find online. St Germain en Laye??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I chose a sector plate partly for simplicity, as it can be made functional with a very simple pivot. I just assumed they must have existed in real life, but then started to wonder when I couldn't find any. I could fit in a turntable, but would lose the loading space for the siding, and it would overhang the front of the baseboard if fully rotated. A centre pivoted sector plate would work though, as it would just mean curving the end of the platform road. I suppose that would be a more practical real life solution in this situation. Did they exist? Edited to add that loads of people replied while I was writing this, and experimenting on the layout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I just noticed that you were using the Huntley & Palmers set up as inspiration, they also had a small traverser, though it was for wagons only, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87412-huntley-palmers-factory-sidings-about-1900/ not sure if you had caught this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 This is how a turntable would fit, but as long as it didn't rotate fully it wouldn't change anything apart from slewing the track where I've put the cobbled section, and that won't affect anything else on the plan I've spent hours trying to make work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I just noticed that you were using the Huntley & Palmers set up as inspiration, they also had a small traverser, though it was for wagons only, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87412-huntley-palmers-factory-sidings-about-1900/ not sure if you had caught this thread. I don't remember seeing that thread, but probably did. Someone posted a link to the photo recently though. I couldn't see a way to incorporate the traverser, and it would have complicated what's supposed to be a simple layout. There will be a traverser just off stage though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2015 Spot on. The table doesn't need to rotate completely, just the sector that you need. This leads to another question though: do you model it in a complete pit, or a pit that just allows sufficent side to side movement that you need..... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Spot on. The table doesn't need to rotate completely, just the sector that you need. This leads to another question though: do you model it in a complete pit, or a pit that just allows sufficent side to side movement that you need..... Andy G It will have to be in one that just allows sufficient side movement, otherwise I lose too much space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I love that half-point where the n-g leaves the s-g running line. Andy G I've got a damaged Peco point to make it from! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 It will have to be in one that just allows sufficient side movement, otherwise I lose too much space. I suggest that you don't need a pit at all. A little packing under the approach tracks, the same thickness as the turntable deck and it should work. Wagon TTs had no pit - they were just a cast iron plate, about the thickness of the sleepers, onto which rails were fastened - they might even have been cast on. A circle of PCB with the rails soldered on and gapped through the middle would serve. As you are not going to rotate the table through 180 or 360 the electrical connection will be easy (no need for sliding contacts etc - just a flexible connection to each rail from underneath.) The table in your mock-up is rather longer than it needs to be to accomodate that loco; shorten it to be just big enough and it might well fit the space you have. HTH Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 The table in your mock-up is rather longer than it needs to be to accomodate that loco; shorten it to be just big enough and it might well fit the space you have. But it's just the right length for the Hornby 0-6-0 chassis that's sitting on my desk, that happens to be the exact length of a Glyn Valley Tramway Beyer Peacock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57454-small-turntable-as-part-of-the-run-round-loop/page-2 http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47133 Both the above show examples of sector plates and release tables. There is one, either in switzerland, or Germany, narrow gauge, at a platform end, where land was at a premium... A sector plate in a confined space has some geometric advantages over a turntable. Especially when dealing with certain approach track angles. A sector plate being 'unbalanced' is a bit of a red herring...a pivot at one end [reducing or eliminating unwanted lateral overhang]....and a carrying wheel at the other. If modelled as a long box, with track on top, one of those miniature radio controlled car drives [with one wheel & tyre] can be mounted underneath, powering the sector table by remote control. Somewhere I have a plan for using a sector table to represent the tail end of a Wye, hidden from view in a corner....a turntable would geometrically work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2015 I would say that a wagon type turntable would not be strong enough to support a loco, even a smae one, which will weight at least twice the weight of a loaded wagon. It will need a proper pit, unless its like the GWR above girder turntables..... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 This is a page from an Orenstein & Koppel catalogue, showing a tramway and a loco turntable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I would say that a wagon type turntable would not be strong enough to support a loco, even a smae one, which will weight at least twice the weight of a loaded wagon. It will need a proper pit, unless its like the GWR above girder turntables..... Andy G We've used the wagon turntables at Boston Lodge to turn the small loco's on occasion, hard work though. Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decauville1126 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Google - images - "pont secteur" et voila! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decauville1126 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=55510&start=0 Go down to the youtube video and there's an automated sector plate on 60cm gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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