BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm swinging back towards a sector plate now! Something a bit more quirkily British though, as foreign ones seem a bit high tech. Shame I haven't got room for the Chinese version, although the hydraulics would have to be replaced by a couple of muscular blokes or a horse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 A new sector plate was recently installed on the Bregenzerwaldbahn at Bezau in Austria. This is a 760mm narrow gauge railway. I believe between the railway being closed by the OBB and it's re-opening part of the site was built on and so truncating the normal run round arrangement. http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?p=237107 Slightly unusual in that it appears the pivot point lies beyond the end of the track under a roadway. For more foreign ones try googling "Segmentdrehscheibe" Brian G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 That's it, I'm having a sector plate. I don't care if they were rare or non existent in Britain. The factory owners had European connections, and got the idea on their travels. It would be nice to find some 19th century examples, as the layout is pre WW1, but I'll make something up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I would say that a wagon type turntable would not be strong enough to support a loco, even a smae one, which will weight at least twice the weight of a loaded wagon. It will need a proper pit, unless its like the GWR above girder turntables..... Andy G Didn't the SDR recently install a wagon turntable at Buckfastleigh which is capable of turning 1369 and other small locos? Also didn't the GER originally have a small turntable at North Woolwich station which was used to release the loco from an incoming train? IIRC the outline of the pit was still visible in recent years - maybe still is. Cheers Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 from http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,4694122 also http://www.laenderbahn-forum.de/galerie/BayerSegmentdrehbuehne/BayerSegmentdrehbuehne.html All from.. http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2612-sector-plates/?hl=%2Bsector+%2Bplates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2015 How about this: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1679.htm http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1680.htm Standard gauge of course. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted July 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2015 Funny, I was just going to say Birmingham Snow Hill. this was at the north end on the downside bays. Notice that there were three ways to cover two tracks, obviously it had to be set with the centre road placed on the arriving trains road, but it meant that for any shunting moves at the other end trains would be faced with a track with buffer stops (curved, see Boulogne) rather than a hole in the ground. I suspect the Board of trade inspector would be happier with this, although this shouldn't be a problem on a small n.g. Line. If you copy the 3way table it means something like a 3way points without the switchblades, as the tracks converged on the pivot centre. I once had a small layout with a single line sector table. I copied it from a drawing in Edward Beal's " Modelling the old-time railways", Which he offered as " a relief from the headache of building a turntable, than which few things in railway modelling are more difficult" though I wonder whether he ever actually saw one. I found a) it didn't balance like a turntable on a central pivot, needing a friction free support at the nose-end, or it was terribly stiff and jerky to work, and b) you had to set for whatever road was set at the other end, or you would end up with wagons down the hole. Anyhow build what you fancy, you'll still have fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 from http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,4694122 also http://www.laenderbahn-forum.de/galerie/BayerSegmentdrehbuehne/BayerSegmentdrehbuehne.html All from.. http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2612-sector-plates/?hl=%2Bsector+%2Bplates Thanks Alastair. I think both of those are as near to what I'm looking for as I'm going to get. I think I'll see if I can produce something suitable based on them. Unfortunately I had to sign up to the forum to read your link, so I've now got another distraction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2015 What about the Fairbourne Railway They have a many tracked sector plate at the Fairbourne end of the line: http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/fandff_htm_files/24.jpg https://goo.gl/maps/f1SmL Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Don't forget that I'm looking for something suitable for a narrow gauge line set in the early 1900s. Big main line standard gauge ones, or modern ones like at Fairbourne, would be totally out of place. It may end being the only one that ever existed in the UK, but it still needs to look fairly convincing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 this came up in a compact layout thread ages ago Boulogne harbour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I love that half-point where the n-g leaves the s-g running line. The criminal lack of dual gauge (SG/NG) track in the UK leaves me frustrated. It's the 'sway' that I find most attractive, followed by no moving parts divergences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=55510&start=0 Go down to the youtube video and there's an automated sector plate on 60cm gauge. Thank you for that - a wonderful video to watch about the character of the whole complex.. Though it turned out to be Taiwan, I thought at first it was mainland China - very similar to industrial plant I saw around Jinan in the early 1990s. dhig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 There is one on the preserved 760mm Walderbahnle in Western Austria at Bezau station. I went there a couple of years ago but lost all my photos of it and can't find one online! There's also a SG one at Zittau station in the bay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Got it!! See the two photos at the bottom of this link: http://www.bregenzerwaldbahn-frueher-heute.at/420_Die_Bahnhoefe_neu.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2015 Got it!! See the two photos at the bottom of this link: http://www.bregenzerwaldbahn-frueher-heute.at/420_Die_Bahnhoefe_neu.htm Isn't that possibly from the "new" camp just like Fairbourne? This photo from 1971 suggests it wasn't there then, as the track layout is different. (Maybe the shop "Sutterlüty Ländlemarkt" was built therefore truncating the headshunt?) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bregenzerwald_bezau.jpg Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Isn't that possibly from the "new" camp just like Fairbourne? This photo from 1971 suggests it wasn't there then, as the track layout is different. (Maybe the shop "Sutterlüty Ländlemarkt" was built therefore truncating the headshunt?) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bregenzerwald_bezau.jpg Keith Google Translate says that it's new and replaced a turntable there was no longer room for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2015 Google Translate says that it's new and replaced a turntable there was no longer room for. That explains it. The sector plate is approximately where the trackwork is at the bottom of the 1971 photo. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think with the lack of evidence for what I'm looking for, I need to try to imagine what some 19th century British engineers, working in a factory making something other than railway equipment, would knock up when instructed to make one to go in a corner of the yard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Isn't that possibly from the "new" camp just like Fairbourne? This photo from 1971 suggests it wasn't there then, as the track layout is different. (Maybe the shop "Sutterlüty Ländlemarkt" was built therefore truncating the headshunt?) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bregenzerwald_bezau.jpg Keith Yes it is "new" (as in the Preservation era) and the shop is the reason for it... But does that make it any less valid? It is used for exactly the same reason as that German one earlier, a building was in the way of a headshunt and a turntable was not required (the locos can run equally well either way), so going back to the OP a sector plate on his layout is perfectly valid in the location it is and would be used rather than a turntable as there is no reason why the stock needs to be turned 180'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yes it is "new" (as in the Preservation era) and the shop is the reason for it... But does that make it any less valid? It is used for exactly the same reason as that German one earlier, a building was in the way of a headshunt and a turntable was not required (the locos can run equally well either way), so going back to the OP a sector plate on his layout is perfectly valid in the location it is and would be used rather than a turntable as there is no reason why the stock needs to be turned 180'... I think a lot of what's been posted is really useful, thanks. It's the modern materials that are the problem, not the technology itself, as I think they would look out of place in an early 20th century British factory yard. That's what I'm still trying to work out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think a lot of what's been posted is really useful, thanks. It's the modern materials that are the problem, not the technology itself, as I think they would look out of place in an early 20th century British factory yard. That's what I'm still trying to work out. The engineering principles are the same, and the Victorians had big girders, so it's probably more about changing pit walls to brickwork from concrete and paving the floor with ash, setts, timbers, or similar appropriate pavings. The basic 'hole in the ground with a bit of track that swings from side to side' hasn't changed in a hundred years. Perhaps the addition of a few cogs and chains would also help to date it, particularly if left with no safety covers, - and add some gratuitous detail that wouldn't be affordable now. If you think about it there are only two main bits to the traverser, a pit for it to sit in, and a deck, both of which are components of a turntable, and they don't look modern. As long as you avoid concrete slabs and walls, safety railings and bright paint it will be fine, it's the sort of thing that would have been lashed up by a Works Engineer so as long as it works, and the materials are appropriate, I'm sure it will look right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 That's pretty much what I'm thinking Peter. Of course it needs to be a Health and Safety death trap too! I've got a bit more track to build, then I need to attack the baseboard with a saw, so I'll be committed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yes it is "new" (as in the Preservation era) and the shop is the reason for it... But does that make it any less valid? It is used for exactly the same reason as that German one earlier, a building was in the way of a headshunt and a turntable was not required (the locos can run equally well either way), so going back to the OP a sector plate on his layout is perfectly valid in the location it is and would be used rather than a turntable as there is no reason why the stock needs to be turned 180'... But John was specifically asking for an old example, which that isn't. Quote: "Don't forget that I'm looking for something suitable for a narrow gauge line set in the early 1900s. Big main line standard gauge ones, or modern ones like at Fairbourne, would be totally out of place. It may end being the only one that ever existed in the UK, but it still needs to look fairly convincing!" End Quote Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think all I need is a brick lined pit, two girders supporting the rails, and wood planking between the rails to hide the framework and moving bits. Much like this, but without the concrete and the platform with the winding handle etc. So, using materials and equipment that were readily available in the 1890s/early 1900s, what size girders would I need under each rail to support a 15 ton loco on a 17ft sector plate, with a pivot at one end, and supported on wheels running on a rail at the other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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