RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 I know I am not the only Ex Copper on here but just to put right those that think there are more officers on patrol. There are not by any stretch of imagination. Yes there will be more cars fitted with ANPR but the biggest majority of the time you see a Police car on the road the occupants will be on their way to or from a job and not on routine patrol. I am not on my own when I say us Ex job are horrified by how few officers there are on the streets in comparison to how many there were in my day (21Years ago). I won't go into more detail here as it is OT but if most of you actually knew how many were out there working you would be horrified. So to return to the topic the fact that there are very few out on patrol and the standard of driving is worse than ever are not unconnected. Kevinlms who made the comment is in Australia so perhaps there are more traffic officers. When I went to the USA there were more police officers then I am used to seeing in England. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Quite possibly so Tony. I imagine most places have more than us but I think to discuss the reason why would infringe the forum rules on politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 on the way home south boxing day coming out of the services car cuts me up coming out of the fuel pumps the tutels on to the M-way at 35mph & straight in to lane 2 staying at 35mph it was a good thing it was 8.30pm on boxing day as we pass the lady driver is looking at 2 of her passengers phones looking backwards by which time lane 2 is lane 3 as the slip-lane came lane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 Kevinlms who made the comment is in Australia so perhaps there are more traffic officers. When I went to the USA there were more police officers then I am used to seeing in England. Thank you Tony. Here is a news report on what Victoria Police found over the 24 day Christmas/New Year campaign. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/12-people-in-five-seater-car-busted-in-festive-season-road-crackdown-20190108-p50q71.html An important stat. 12 lives were lost over the Christmas and New Year period, compared with 25 the previous year. No mention of how many mobile offences - there will be a lot. Penalty is 4 demerit points (12 available in a 3 year period) and at least a $455 fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) If only this bus would come down from hiding in Queensland! Hopefully it's on a hiding in Queensland given recent performances!! Edited January 8, 2019 by ikks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimble Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Kevinlms who made the comment is in Australia so perhaps there are more traffic officers. When I went to the USA there were more police officers then I am used to seeing in England. though you would be wrong... N.Ireland - 372 police officers per 100,000 of population, Scotland - 324 England & Wales - 302 USA - 284 Ireland - 252 Australia - 202 Canada - 185 With most (but not all) main European countries having 200-300 police officers per 100,000 population. Worldwide there is approx 1 officer per 604 civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) though you would be wrong... N.Ireland - 372 police officers per 100,000 of population, Scotland - 324 England & Wales - 302 USA - 284 Ireland - 252 Australia - 202 Canada - 185 With most (but not all) main European countries having 200-300 police officers per 100,000 population. Worldwide there is approx 1 officer per 604 civilians. According to the official figures posted in the House of Commons Library on 16th October 2018, the figure for the number of police officers per 100,000 of population in England & Wales is 208. The figures were complied as at 31st March 2018. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00634/SN00634.pdf Edited January 8, 2019 by 4630 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 What percentage of those are traffic officers, though, as that's what we are discussing isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) All I know is the number of police oficers in my area is..... 4..... at night time and weekends, two of them are manning a police station, thats an area 40 miles wide and up to 20 miles deep. (population 103,000 approx) Edited January 8, 2019 by TheQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimble Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 According to the official figures posted in the House of Commons Library on 16th October 2018, the figure for the number of police officers per 100,000 of population in England & Wales is 208. The figures were complied as at 31st March 2018. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00634/SN00634.pdf What do they say about stats... admittedly mine date from only 2017, but are based upon reports on the .gov.uk website... of course, the thing to keep in mine is what might be defined as "police", or working 'for the police'. If my figures included PCSO, Special Constables, Police Staff, BTP*, as opposed to Police Officers, or even 'Frontline Police Officers' you can dramatically change the numbers that are being used... * - having checked, mine DIDN'T include the BTP for example... which is ~5,000 employees, but a workforce of 3,028 police officers, 1,530 police staff, 230 police community support officers, 30 designated officers and 330 special constables... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 What do they say about stats... admittedly mine date from only 2017, but are based upon reports on the .gov.uk website... of course, the thing to keep in mine is what might be defined as "police", or working 'for the police'. If my figures included PCSO, Special Constables, Police Staff, BTP*, as opposed to Police Officers, or even 'Frontline Police Officers' you can dramatically change the numbers that are being used... * - having checked, mine DIDN'T include the BTP for example... which is ~5,000 employees, but a workforce of 3,028 police officers, 1,530 police staff, 230 police community support officers, 30 designated officers and 330 special constables... Completely agree. As with all analysis of statistics, especially government ones, the devil is in the detail. Usually detail that is particularly opaque too, such as the definitions used, in this case 'police'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 What percentage of those are traffic officers, though, as that's what we are discussing isn't it? Without researching it I can't give you a number but there is a Facebook group for retired Traffic officers and there are more of us on it than are serving in the UK. It is a constant moan on the group about how cameras cannot do half the job a Traffic Officer used to do back in the day. It is a fact a camera cannot tell you if a speeding motorist has a licence, is fit to drive or if the car has dangerous defects. Many other things it cannot do that a bobby in a Patrol car would have maybe detected with his nose for it. I would suggest most of us each day see something that any switched on bobby would be pulling the car for and having a word. As there are very few actually out there at all the result is what this thread discusses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I know I am not the only Ex Copper on here but just to put right those that think there are more officers on patrol. There are not by any stretch of imagination. Yes there will be more cars fitted with ANPR but the biggest majority of the time you see a Police car on the road the occupants will be on their way to or from a job and not on routine patrol. I am not on my own when I say us Ex job are horrified by how few officers there are on the streets in comparison to how many there were in my day (21Years ago). I won't go into more detail here as it is OT but if most of you actually knew how many were out there working you would be horrified. So to return to the topic the fact that there are very few out on patrol and the standard of driving is worse than ever are not unconnected. The evidence suggests that Traffic Officers are the most productive in terms of arrests - & thats in terms on 'non traffic; arrests. While it hasnt been quantified there is also a suggestion that traffic enforcement 'bears down' on offenders - it doesnt matter what the little lovlies are arrested for, it just matters that they are arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 though you would be wrong... N.Ireland - 372 police officers per 100,000 of population, Scotland - 324 England & Wales - 302 USA - 284 Ireland - 252 Australia - 202 Canada - 185 With most (but not all) main European countries having 200-300 police officers per 100,000 population. Worldwide there is approx 1 officer per 604 civilians. Not sure how you can say I am wrong. I hardly ever see a police officer where I live. The 2 nearest police stations have closed. When I was in Connecticut , police officers were very visible. This is not a criticism of our local police just a comment on what I saw.I had a chat with the senior officer of the police department of the town we stayed in and commented that his officers were very visible. He seemed pleased I had noticed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2019 https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/widespread-audit-of-freeway-signs-after-massive-sign-fell-on-car-20190110-p50qnn.html Not bad driving, but bad road signage! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted January 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2019 Followed a cyclist through a local town the other morning, they only had lights mounted on their helmet...every time they turned their head more than about 30 degrees to check side roads etc or looked down it presented me with an unlit view of them in their direction of travel. When they were looking ahead and straight and level the lamps were outside the normal field of vision(around 3’ higher) I would expect to see hazards...glad it was a well lit town centre and not a foggy country lane I encountered them on..... (Said as someone who cycles almost as much as I drive during the week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) Not sure how you can say I am wrong. I hardly ever see a police officer where I live. The 2 nearest police stations have closed. When I was in Connecticut , police officers were very visible. This is not a criticism of our local police just a comment on what I saw.I had a chat with the senior officer of the police department of the town we stayed in and commented that his officers were very visible. He seemed pleased I had noticed.I’ve always noticed the visible police presence in the US, not least because “police” over there can mean the Federal, State or local levels. One of the things I’ve always liked about Americans, is the way they are engaged in the concept of nationhood and citizenship. They certainly feel that you should “get out there and vote” and for all the endemic corruption that permeates their political system, they certainly feel it’s THEIR system. This also applies to the police, many of whom are dependent upon election of one sort or another for their funding. They also live in a country where large areas are almost unpopulated, there is very little in the way of national government - no health service, no national education system, no national public transport network or even a national broadcasting network in the European sense - the police are one of the few regularly visible manifestations of public identity in a country where whole towns can be “unincorporated”. Edited January 13, 2019 by rockershovel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Completely agree. As with all analysis of statistics, especially government ones, the devil is in the detail. Usually detail that is particularly opaque too, such as the definitions used, in this case 'police'. I do notice that CPSO are much less visible now. They were regularly seen in the centre of Peterborough at one time, but I don’t recall when I last saw one and can’t say that this worries me very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The evidence suggests that Traffic Officers are the most productive in terms of arrests - & thats in terms on 'non traffic; arrests. While it hasnt been quantified there is also a suggestion that traffic enforcement 'bears down' on offenders - it doesnt matter what the little lovlies are arrested for, it just matters that they are arrested. Which seems to me, a rather dubious definition of “productive”. Surely a 100% effective police presence would be one which deterred all offenders, resulting in 100% law abiding citizens and nil arrests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2019 There are no PCSOs left in Norfolk. Their pay was only just behind a newly qualified real constable, so the chief inspector saved constables not PCSOs in the cuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2019 I’ve always noticed the visible police presence in the US... They also live in a country where large areas are almost unpopulated, there is very little in the way of national government - no health service, no national education system, no national public transport network or even a national broadcasting network in the European sense - the police are one of the few regularly visible manifestations of public identity in a country where whole towns can be “unincorporated”. The town we stayed in Connecticut with friends had been established for quite a long time. We got to see the original treaty betwee settlers and native people. From that time agricultural use had spread out but now the forest is moving back. The local police had an animal incident officer. His main job was to escort bears through the town. People seemed quite used to bears wandering about. I didn’t expect to see this in New England. The reason we got to have the police guided tour wa because our friend worked for them as a civilian officer sending out traffic offence notices. Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The latest fad from poor drivers seems to be trying desperately to put their foot down and racing every other driver into the start of roadworks with average speed cameras only to pull in sharply in front of the overtaken traffic, brake hard, then crawl through the roadworks at far less than the speed limit. I'm seeing this a lot at the moment. I have also witnessed a few times in the roadworks on the M6 middle lane hogs who move to lane 3 instead of lane 1 when flashed for lane hogging by vehicles stuck behind them. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2019 .... I have also witnessed a few times in the roadworks on the M6 middle lane hogs who move to lane 3 instead of lane 1 when flashed for lane hogging by vehicles stuck behind them. Am I missing something? On 4 lane motorways the third lane seems to be the driving at 55mph preferred lane on otherwise empty motorways now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimble Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The latest fad from poor drivers seems to be trying desperately to put their foot down and racing every other driver into the start of roadworks with average speed cameras only to pull in sharply in front of the overtaken traffic, brake hard, then crawl through the roadworks at far less than the speed limit. I'm seeing this a lot at the moment. The Hindhead tunnel on the A3 is another good example of this... if you're lucky the (often BMW/Audi) driver who blasts past you at +80mph just before the tunnel at least pulls into lane one as they slow down to 60mph to travel through the tunnel so you can overtake them back, just doing a steady 70mph. Then they'll overtake you again out the otherside when they get back up to cruising speed of +80mph. But so often you'll get stuck behind cars who'll slow down to 60mph for the tunnel, just because of the average speed limit cameras... even though the limit itself is still 70mph (unless indictated otherwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 There are no PCSOs left in Norfolk. Their pay was only just behind a newly qualified real constable, so the chief inspector saved constables not PCSOs in the cuts They're all part of the Baker family anyway, in Norfolk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now