Driving standards

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I suppose of course that the other thing would be proper crash investigation so if you are involved in an accident its properly looked into and if you have been a bit of an idiot then bye bye licence

In an ideal world, yes, but the eternal question comes up - "Who will pay?".  Insurers? Insurers would simply pass their costs on in increased premiums. I do, however, see the police being a bit more proactive in investigating more accidents these days, so it's not as bad as it was.

[johnofwessex]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

In an ideal world, yes, but the eternal question comes up - "Who will pay?".  Insurers? Insurers would simply pass their costs on in increased premiums. I do, however, see the police being a bit more proactive in investigating more accidents these days, so it's not as bad as it was.

 

Firstly though in looking at the cost there is the question of justice because in many cases because of the lack of investigations either perpetrators are not prosecuted or victims find it harder to get compensation.  Secondly of course the costs of accidents are already very high and anything that helped to reduce the numbers should result in an overall saving, in addition of course to the deterrent effect.

[hayfield]

Recently we had  holiday in Alnwick, for us it was a cross country rum to the M11, then no roundabouts at all right up to (and past ) Alnwick

 

Firstly I was surprised that the main road up the eastern side of the country has not been developed into into a duel or triple carriage way, it certainly merits further development

 

Sadly the Knights of the road have got worse, firstly many still just pull out without indicating and or waiting for a space to become available

 

Secondly tailgating over the speed limits is becoming more common

 

On one section the speed limit was set to 50 for road works. I was on the inside lane slowing down to 50 (remember 50 is the maximum speed) and a HGV was flashing me simply because I was adhering to the temporary speed limit. Its about time these so called professional drivers actually took notice of the law. Speed limits are there for a purpose and they are what they say limits.

 

I understand how frustrating it is when some motorists do inappropriate speeds, however when the limit is 50 and a motorist adheres to their speedometer (which may be slightly lower) what right have HGV drivers to bully them by tailgating and flashing their lights

 

Also I found some of the service centres less than appealing, we stopped at one Starbucks before lunch, limited selection of unappetising sandwiches, so we settled for Coffee and pain aux chocolate, the coffee was tasteless, croissant stale and tables dirty. Later on we stopped at a McDonalds, which was so self service I was surprised we did not have to cook the items ourselves.

On the way back it was a totally different story. First we stopped at a Pret a Manger which was superb, then later a small independent roadside café again great food and inexpensive 

 

Rant over 

[MarkC]

47 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Recently we had  holiday in Alnwick, for us it was a cross country rum to the M11, then no roundabouts at all right up to (and past ) Alnwick

 

Firstly I was surprised that the main road up the eastern side of the country has not been developed into into a duel or triple carriage way, it certainly merits further development

 

Sadly the Knights of the road have got worse, firstly many still just pull out without indicating and or waiting for a space to become available

 

Secondly tailgating over the speed limits is becoming more common

 

On one section the speed limit was set to 50 for road works. I was on the inside lane slowing down to 50 (remember 50 is the maximum speed) and a HGV was flashing me simply because I was adhering to the temporary speed limit. Its about time these so called professional drivers actually took notice of the law. Speed limits are there for a purpose and they are what they say limits.

 

I understand how frustrating it is when some motorists do inappropriate speeds, however when the limit is 50 and a motorist adheres to their speedometer (which may be slightly lower) what right have HGV drivers to bully them by tailgating and flashing their lights

 

Also I found some of the service centres less than appealing, we stopped at one Starbucks before lunch, limited selection of unappetising sandwiches, so we settled for Coffee and pain aux chocolate, the coffee was tasteless, croissant stale and tables dirty. Later on we stopped at a McDonalds, which was so self service I was surprised we did not have to cook the items ourselves.

On the way back it was a totally different story. First we stopped at a Pret a Manger which was superb, then later a small independent roadside café again great food and inexpensive 

 

Rant over 

Ah, the joys of the A1(M) north of Scotch Corner - long overdue for a third lane. The less said about the Western Bypass round Gateshead & Newcastle the better too - other than that the planners were told before it was built to make it 3 lanes, but they knew better... 30 years on, they're finally widening it...

 

Then there's that single carriageway bit before the Alnwick bypass - that's a truly scary stretch of road...

 

As for the HGV bullying - these will be the same drivers who move into lane 2 on a 2 lane road & go past another HGV very, very slowly, causing massive backing up of vehicles behind...

 

The only reason we stop at motorway services is if one of us needs to unexpectedly, well, 'deballast' - I'd much rather plan ahead, get off the motorway/trunk road & stop somewhere civilised for refreshments.

Edited July 8, 2022 by MarkC

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Firstly I was surprised that the main road up the eastern side of the country has not been developed into into a duel or triple carriage way

 

I understand how frustrating it is when some motorists do inappropriate speeds, however when the limit is 50 and a motorist adheres to their speedometer (which may be slightly lower) what right have HGV drivers to bully them by tailgating and flashing their lights

 

Sounds like some of the HGV drivers thought it already was a "duel" carriageway...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel_(1971_film)

 

As to motorway services, I don't think many of them have ever been any good.  I remember stopping at one on the M6 somewhere north of Birmingham once where I found the atmosphere genuinely threatening.  The core functions of a service area - loos, food and a general shop - were present, but not exactly welcoming or with an enticing range of products.  However, there was a large video games arcade, and I got the distinct impression that people actually travelled to the service area to play them.

 

We used to go up and down the M6 fairly regularly and the standout services were always the ones at Tebay southbound and northbound.  They're still better than pretty much anything else along that road, but sadly not quite as pleasant and relaxing to visit as they used to be.  They seem to be permanently very busy these days, which might be a combination of them being better than the rest, plus the fact that they now feature in their own TV series (shades of the overcrowding at places like the Fairy Pools on Skye since they were used as a location in Outlander).  Annadale services on the A74(M) are tolerable.  Further south, we used to stop at Forton and buy a picnic in the M&S food shop there, rather than attempt to consume anything prepared on the premises.

Edited July 8, 2022 by ejstubbs

[ejstubbs]

And there there's this: Llanelli woman jailed for taking 150 driving tests for others

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

... Annadale services on the A74(M) are tolerable...

Heading up to my brother's place for Christmas (the one just before Covid) we stopped at Annandale for a bite of lunch and ended up sitting there for quite a while watching a kingfisher darting in and out of the lake.

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

And there there's this: Llanelli woman jailed for taking 150 driving tests for others

 

Well really out of the 151 people involved she's the last one who should be going to jail. She's obviously a very competent driver who represents no hazard to the public.

[hayfield]

27 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Ah, the joys of the A1(M) north of Scotch Corner - long overdue for a third lane. The less said about the Western Bypass round Gateshead & Newcastle the better too - other than that the planners were told before it was built to make it 3 lanes, but they knew better... 30 years on, they're finally widening it...

 

Then there's that single carriageway bit before the Alnwick bypass - that's a truly scary stretch of road...

 

As for the HGV bullying - these will be the same drivers who move into lane 2 on a 2 lane road & go past another HGV very, very slowly, causing massive backing up of vehicles behind...

 

The only reason we stop at motorway services is if one of us needs to unexpectedly, well, 'deballast' - I'd much rather plan ahead, get off the motorway/trunk road & stop somewhere civilised for refreshments.

 

Marc

 

The services on the motorway are better than the A road service areas

 

The bit around Newcastle was awful on the way up but as you say the HGV's in lane 2 are simply just a rolling road block, with little or no consideration to other road users

[Nick C]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well really out of the 151 people involved she's the last one who should be going to jail. She's obviously a very competent driver who represents no hazard to the public.

Except that she's enabled 150 other people to become a hazard...

[Compound2632]

Just now, Nick C said:

Except that she's enabled 150 other people to become a hazard...

 

Well precisely; they're the ones who should be removed from the roads. It would be sufficient for every examiner to be issued with her photograph. I do wonder how she managed it - she must have done the rounds of a large number of test centres to avoid being recognised.

[PhilJ W]

33 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

And there there's this: Llanelli woman jailed for taking 150 driving tests for others

 

26 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well really out of the 151 people involved she's the last one who should be going to jail. She's obviously a very competent driver who represents no hazard to the public.

 

20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well precisely; they're the ones who should be removed from the roads. It would be sufficient for every examiner to be issued with her photograph. I do wonder how she managed it - she must have done the rounds of a large number of test centres to avoid being recognised.

I understand that the 150 licences have been cancelled.

[PhilJ W]

Yesterday was BIN day locally. We put our rubbish out in black bin bags. The usual practice of the bin men is to gather together about a dozen bags in a pile and the bin lorry stops at each pile and they are thrown into the lorry. Yesterday morning a woman parked her car about two metres from one of the piles of bin bags. When she came back to her car the bags were still there. She then proceeded to pull away straight into the pile of bin bags. When they stopped her progress she just reversed a couple of feet and then tried again, this time ending up on top of the bin bags with one wheel left spinning in the air. She then got out and inspected the problem but then just got back in the car and with a lot of revs managed to get her car off of the bags. The problem then was some of the bags had burst and one was caught under the car leaving a trail of rubbish down the street. I told the binmen what had happened but they had seen the car dragging the bin bag down the street and noted the registration.

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Recently we had  holiday in Alnwick, for us it was a cross country rum to the M11, then no roundabouts at all right up to (and past ) Alnwick

 

 You should have messaged me John, I'm not that far from Alnwick (just over the border near Kelso)

 

In the last 3 years I've done the A1 so many times from Bedfordshire to Morpeth, then A697(?) to Akeld just North of Wooler before 15 miles on a C road.  The 697 is good and the C road is better than the A1 in places.  I didn't use the services at all except a Stop at Scotch corner, I also took my own sandwiches as they're dire on the various stops along the way.

There is a Greggs at Scotch Corner which was ok for a Tea or coffee,  IIRC a hot chocolate was £1.70 in the Greggs (located outside) or £4 in the Costa inside.

I've noted the lorries can be quite aggressive but I was generally doing 60-65 in my small truck so not a bit issue for me. Although while towing the digger North one doing an emergency stop as he'd missed an exit got the heart rate going ,as with my foot heavy on the brake and the trailer brakes hard on, his trailer with smoking tyres started to get too close for comfort 😱

 

[hayfield]

14 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 You should have messaged me John, I'm not that far from Alnwick (just over the border near Kelso)

 

In the last 3 years I've done the A1 so many times from Bedfordshire to Morpeth, then A697(?) to Akeld just North of Wooler before 15 miles on a C road.  The 697 is good and the C road is better than the A1 in places.  I didn't use the services at all except a Stop at Scotch corner, I also took my own sandwiches as they're dire on the various stops along the way.

There is a Greggs at Scotch Corner which was ok for a Tea or coffee,  IIRC a hot chocolate was £1.70 in the Greggs (located outside) or £4 in the Costa inside.

I've noted the lorries can be quite aggressive but I was generally doing 60-65 in my small truck so not a bit issue for me. Although while towing the digger North one doing an emergency stop as he'd missed an exit got the heart rate going ,as with my foot heavy on the brake and the trailer brakes hard on, his trailer with smoking tyres started to get too close for comfort 😱

 

 

Might have saved me a few £'s as the wife loves a good s/h bookshop as much as I love eBay.

 

As for Greggs I seem to recall being less than impressed when stopping at one service centre south of Bristol, whilst on our way back from Cornwall in September (remember the petrol crisis caused by a BBC report) last year. It was worse than the Starbucks we stopped at, but everywhere was operating/recovering from covid restrictions. So everything was in disarray a bit then.

 

Our last stop on the way back was the Stibbington Diner. it was clean, inexpensive and you could taste the coffee. And as I said the Pret a Manger place we stopped in was clean, had a very good and appetising range sandwiches, rolls etc and a nice cup of coffee.

 

Starbucks N Withan  is a place we will pass, I just cannot understand when so much money has clearly been spent on the place, they then fail to make the stop pleasurable. OK all places can have supply issues, but a coffee company making a bad cup of coffee and not keeping their tables clean is not on, not to mention the stale pan aux chocolate

 

Why do people enjoy McDonald's so much ? At least the place was clean, the Coke was cold and my wife enjoyed her salad.  I joked if it became more self service we would be cooking our own food !!!.    Still when younger I and my friends spent hours in the Wimpy bar, so less said the better . What did I learn  stop where there is a Pret a Manger   

[Jonboy]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I understand how frustrating it is when some motorists do inappropriate speeds, however when the limit is 50 and a motorist adheres to their speedometer (which may be slightly lower) what right have HGV drivers to bully them by tailgating and flashing their lights 

I do know someone who’s favourite trick in this situation was to drop a gear to create a surge, whilst simultaneously turning on their rear fog lights, giving the driver behind a flash of red light and a random change of speed to consider…

[Reorte]

Saw in my mirrors this morning someone gesticulating behind me. I'd stopped with quite a gap between me and the next car - a gap that was occupied by a box junction.

[hayfield]

22 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Saw in my mirrors this morning someone gesticulating behind me. I'd stopped with quite a gap between me and the next car - a gap that was occupied by a box junction.

 

Many drivers now seen to either not know or just ignore the highway code, at one time it was just young boy racers, bad driving now is both unisex and of all ages. Motorists no see a speed sigh and believe that is the speed you drive at. On many A roads and motorway slips whilst the speed on the circular road signs don't change, other signage on tight bends instruct that's its safer to reduce the speed. Clearly there is a need for a clamp down on bad driving

[Pete the Elaner]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Firstly I was surprised that the main road up the eastern side of the country has not been developed into into a duel or triple carriage way, it certainly merits further development

 

 

I only learned this relatively recently: A dual carriageway road has two separate paved surfaces side-by-side, with some sort of physical divider or barrier between them.

Usually this would be 2 or 3 lanes, but not necessarily. It could have 1 lane each way. Does this mean it would still have a 70 limit? It would seem so.

Does it also mean that a road with 2 lanes in each direction separated from each other by double white lines is a single carriageway & therefore has a 60 limit? I don't think I want to put that one to the test. 🤣

 

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I understand how frustrating it is when some motorists do inappropriate speeds, however when the limit is 50 and a motorist adheres to their speedometer (which may be slightly lower) what right have HGV drivers to bully them by tailgating and flashing their lights

 

 

I drove into a village (with 30mph limit) behind someone doing 20 the other day. They eventually sped up a bit, but only to about 25.

They could have been going slow for any number of reasons but there is nothing wrong with that so I just hung back to give them a little more space.

[Pete the Elaner]

9 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Many drivers now seen to either not know or just ignore the highway code, at one time it was just young boy racers, bad driving now is both unisex and of all ages. Motorists no see a speed sigh and believe that is the speed you drive at. On many A roads and motorway slips whilst the speed on the circular road signs don't change, other signage on tight bends instruct that's its safer to reduce the speed. Clearly there is a need for a clamp down on bad driving

 

There is plenty of need but I don't think police are given the resources they would like to do this.

I also remember TV adverts about keeping to the correct lane but we don't see anything like that now.

[hayfield]

15 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

There is plenty of need but I don't think police are given the resources they would like to do this.

I also remember TV adverts about keeping to the correct lane but we don't see anything like that now.

 

Do people now watch normal TV anymore ? I thought it was now binge watching on catch up, 

[Reorte]

32 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I only learned this relatively recently: A dual carriageway road has two separate paved surfaces side-by-side, with some sort of physical divider or barrier between them.

Usually this would be 2 or 3 lanes, but not necessarily. It could have 1 lane each way. Does this mean it would still have a 70 limit? It would seem so.

Does it also mean that a road with 2 lanes in each direction separated from each other by double white lines is a single carriageway & therefore has a 60 limit? I don't think I want to put that one to the test. 🤣

Yes to both of those as far as I know.

 

On the first here's a single lane per side dual carriageway: See here

 

As far as I know the speed limit of that will be 70 mph, although I wouldn't want to try going that fast there. Maybe being a military road open to the public means different rules though. There's also one on Mull, but it doesn't seem to explicitly say dual carriageway; I think that might not matter but I don't know.

 

On the second part, yep, just one carriageway, so hence 60 unless it says otherwise. I know of a few short stretches of that daft three lane single carriageway road left (the ones with the aptly-named suicide lanes for overtaking, and which unsurprisingly have been pretty much all eliminated, than god).  There are some four lane single carriageway roads too, such as this one on the A6, a road that also has some of the aforementioned suicide lane sections). Four lane single carriageway roads are quite common in towns, but they obviously won't have a 60 mph speed limit. Rural ones are pretty rare though.

 

edit: the three lane stretch I knew of on the A6 appears to have gone after some resurfacing and re-marking (some rather bizarre re-marking to be honest). It was an interesting survivor (unlike people who actually tried to use them), so in a way I'm a bit sad to see it go but definitely a good idea to get rid of it and I'm surprised it hadn't been done years ago.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Reorte

[Nick C]

27 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Yes to both of those as far as I know.

 

On the first here's a single lane per side dual carriageway: See here

 

As far as I know the speed limit of that will be 70 mph, although I wouldn't want to try going that fast there. Maybe being a military road open to the public means different rules though. There's also one on Mull, but it doesn't seem to explicitly say dual carriageway; I think that might not matter but I don't know.

 

On the second part, yep, just one carriageway, so hence 60 unless it says otherwise. I know of a few short stretches of that daft three lane single carriageway road left (the ones with the aptly-named suicide lanes for overtaking, and which unsurprisingly have been pretty much all eliminated, than god).  There are some four lane single carriageway roads too, such as this one on the A6, a road that also has some of the aforementioned suicide lane sections). Four lane single carriageway roads are quite common in towns, but they obviously won't have a 60 mph speed limit. Rural ones are pretty rare though.

 

edit: the three lane stretch I knew of on the A6 appears to have gone after some resurfacing and re-marking (some rather bizarre re-marking to be honest). It was an interesting survivor (unlike people who actually tried to use them), so in a way I'm a bit sad to see it go but definitely a good idea to get rid of it and I'm surprised it hadn't been done years ago.

Agree, both of those are correct.

 

Most of the three lane bits are now clearly marked as two lanes in one direction and one in the other, usually with double whites between them. Which didn't stop a Range Rover on the A303 one day about 10 years ago, which decided to use the one eastbound lane to overtake the traffic in both westbound lanes...

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Yes to both of those as far as I know.

 

On the first here's a single lane per side dual carriageway: See here

 

As far as I know the speed limit of that will be 70 mph, although I wouldn't want to try going that fast there. Maybe being a military road open to the public means different rules though. There's also one on Mull, but it doesn't seem to explicitly say dual carriageway; I think that might not matter but I don't know.

 

On the second part, yep, just one carriageway, so hence 60 unless it says otherwise. I know of a few short stretches of that daft three lane single carriageway road left (the ones with the aptly-named suicide lanes for overtaking, and which unsurprisingly have been pretty much all eliminated, than god).  There are some four lane single carriageway roads too, such as this one on the A6, a road that also has some of the aforementioned suicide lane sections). Four lane single carriageway roads are quite common in towns, but they obviously won't have a 60 mph speed limit. Rural ones are pretty rare though.

 

edit: the three lane stretch I knew of on the A6 appears to have gone after some resurfacing and re-marking (some rather bizarre re-marking to be honest). It was an interesting survivor (unlike people who actually tried to use them), so in a way I'm a bit sad to see it go but definitely a good idea to get rid of it and I'm surprised it hadn't been done years ago.

 

 

In fact the word Dual is confusing as its talking about the central reservation not the number of lanes !!

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, hayfield said:

In fact the word Dual is confusing as its talking about the central reservation not the number of lanes !!

 

The word refers to the number of carriageways. (An antique term!) I therefore suppose that the four-lane road previously illustrated has a default 60 mph limit, being a single carriageway.