Bill and Jason's Excellent UK Adventure - 2015

[Jagboi]

I've driven a Routemaster through a slalom course! That was part of a British car club's Spring garage tour in Calgary, using one of the members bus. We all got on the bus and drove around the city touring various members garages to see what projects hadn't seen the light of day in years.

 

Half way through the tour we stopped in a very large empty parking lot and set up a course through some cones. It was a challenge to drive a vehicle that large with no power steering, a 4 speed "crash" gearbox with no syncro and a top speed of 35 mph. First gear was good for about 150', then had to double clutch into second. I was used to driving a car with no syncro on first (1964 Jaguar E Type), but this one was a challenge to get the speeds right due to the slow reaction of the gears and the diesel engine. A fun challenge though!

[BR60103]

We now have a response for those who say "Why doesn't someone make X?"  "Why don't you give Jason 150 grand and ask him."

[rapidotrains]

Loving the photographs in the blog, but I'm sure that one has been photoshopped.

 

It shows Arran behind the stand - AWAKE!

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

We were actually comparing cameras. He's got a different version of the same model, as apparently do half the modellers in the UK. Mine's a Canon G16.

 

I had it on aperture priority to get depth of field when taking layout shots, but the lighting in the NEC is so rubbish that even on 400 ISO most of my photos came out blurry. Bill had his camera set to auto and all of his photos came out fine! 

 

So much for using a good camera.... they are not so good in show environments.

 

Jason

[rapidotrains]

We now have a response for those who say "Why doesn't someone make X?"  "Why don't you give Jason 150 grand and ask him."

 

150 grand for an APT-P - well, probably a lot more than that for a P train. I was just throwing a number out there. A regular locomotive or wagon costs less.

 

This is bringing crowd funding to a new level. I can just see the conversation.

 

"Dad, Jason from Rapido says that we can have a better model of a Class 28 if we pay the $90,000 tooling costs. As you are in the House of Lords and you're worth a mint, I thought I'd ask."

 

"Well son, that seems like a good investment. What is our return?"

 

"Nothing."

 

"You mean it's an interest-free loan? I can see that working."

 

"Errr... nope."

 

"A donation, then? Will I get a receipt for income tax purposes?"

 

"Ummm... nope."

 

"So what you are saying is I am going to give my hard-earned money away so you can have a better model of the Class 28 than the perfectly good one that came out a couple of years ago?"

 

"Well, um, yes, essentially."

 

"Right. Sounds like a plan! Here's the cash."

 

[BR60103]

I shouldn't have mentioned it. You're going to have a lot of rock stars taking that exit from the ETR.

 

 

 

I can't even afford to keep up with the models you are making.

[Derekstuart]

I think you might be mistaken. The Routemaster has a Wilson epicyclic gearbox. When new they were fully automatic, but over the years many were made semi-auto to save on maintenance.

 

Even as a semi-auto, the Routemaster had only a small electric lever, which operates valves on the gearbox. AEC- the main users of Col. Wilson's design- used oil pressure to manage gearbox functions, compared to Leyland who used air pressure to control the hydraulic valves; you cannot use air pressure on a Routemaster as it doesn't have air compressors- brakes of course being power hydraulic accumulators.

 

As for power steering- all Routemasters had power steering as standard.

 

I think it is possible that you might be referring to an AEC RT, which was the precursor to the RM. That's definitely the bus to separate bus drivers from steering wheel attendants.

 

I've driven a Routemaster through a slalom course! That was part of a British car club's Spring garage tour in Calgary, using one of the members bus. We all got on the bus and drove around the city touring various members garages to see what projects hadn't seen the light of day in years.

 

Half way through the tour we stopped in a very large empty parking lot and set up a course through some cones. It was a challenge to drive a vehicle that large with no power steering, a 4 speed "crash" gearbox with no syncro and a top speed of 35 mph. First gear was good for about 150', then had to double clutch into second. I was used to driving a car with no syncro on first (1964 Jaguar E Type), but this one was a challenge to get the speeds right due to the slow reaction of the gears and the diesel engine. A fun challenge though!

[Jagboi]

I think you might be mistaken. The Routemaster has a Wilson epicyclic gearbox. When new they were fully automatic, but over the years many were made semi-auto to save on maintenance.

 

I think it is possible that you might be referring to an AEC RT, which was the precursor to the RM. That's definitely the bus to separate bus drivers from steering wheel attendants.

 

I'll be the first to say that I am not an expert on UK buses. It was about 10 years ago, and I dug out the pictures a friend took of me driving. It's a Leyland bus, and was originally sold to Blackpool. Clearly not a Routemaster then. I distinctly remember it was a 4 speed non syncro that I had to double clutch through each gear change. Had a "pot stirrer" shift lever to the left of the driver.

 

Here is a photo:

[Wherry Lines]

That looks like PD2. They definitely do not have power steering! My father owns a '67 example with Massey bodywork.

[mvrnut]

Hi Jason and Bill,

     I've been following your UK adventure with interest, being myself a UK expat. I especially liked the photo of Bill and Ben as It reminded me of watching 'Bill and Ben' on the telly when I was a nipper.

 

    Seeing how you both love UK locos, here's food for thought for you. After the Stirling Single comes to fruition perhaps you might consider doing the LSWR Adams T3 which is part of the National Collection. This loco also has a Canadian connection as it actually was on rails in Canada a couple of years ago when it was in Toronto for the theatrical production of The Railway Children at the Roundhouse Park. I had the privilege of getting up close and personal with this loco while it was in the roundhouse even got to go up in the cab. Absolutely fabulous loco.

 

    On another note, do you have plans to attend the Great British Train Show in Brampton the 7th and 8th May 2016.  this would be an excellent event for you as you are now producing UK prototypes.

 

Cheers,

   Chris

[Derekstuart]

Hello Jagboi, yes I'd go along with what Simon says, though I am not an expert on the early Leyland half-cabs myself.

 

I hope my comment did not come across as arguing with you; I was just hoping to help. Most people assume that anything with a half-cab is a Routemaster, but the design is truly an icon and I think perhaps the name is to buses what coke is to cola.

 

 

BTW not knowing how old you are, did you experience the E type when it was new in 1964 or later, when it was an older car? I bought my first Jag- XK8- a couple of years ago and it is the spiritual successor to the E type. What a car. I'm planning to replace it with an XKRS shortly (second hand as they stopped making it in favour the F type, which doesn't look like a Jag). The XK looks can trace its looks back to the E type, but I don't know the F type just doesn't look right to me.

 

Sorry for the O/T. I suppose someone will want to talk about trains again...

[Jagboi]

I'm too young to have experienced the E Type new. I bought it in 97 as a wreck and did a partial restoration to "nice driver" status. Sold it in 2006 because it took me that long to figure out that I didn't like convertibles. The driving season here is only 6 months anyway, and of the remaining 6 month it was always too something to drive the E. Too hot, too cold etc, and I usually found the keys to the Jag saloon in my hand instead of the E Type.

 

At the moment I have 5 Jaguars, thus the username. A 1966 S Type, 1990 Daimler DS420 limousine, 1994 XJS V12, 1995 XJR, and 2007 X Type. My partners daily driver is a Saab 9-5 and when that dies I want to replace it with one of the AWD XF's. The X Type is wonderful in the winter because of the AWD, so the next daily driver has to have it too.

 

The XK is a very nice car and I have several friends with them. Alas, for me it is a summer driver as I wouldn't want to expose it to the salt and rocks that is winter driving here. A low, powerful RWD car is not a good choice for winter anyway.

 

 

 

Derekstuart, on 05 Dec 2015 - 15:40, said:
BTW not knowing how old you are, did you experience the E type when it was new in 1964 or later, when it was an older car? I bought my first Jag- XK8- a couple of years ago and it is the spiritual successor to the E type. What a car. I'm planning to replace it with an XKRS shortly (second hand as they stopped making it in favour the F type, which doesn't look like a Jag). The XK looks can trace its looks back to the E type, but I don't know the F type just doesn't look right to me.

[Mr_Tilt]

 

 

Sorry for the O/T. I suppose someone will want to talk about trains again...

 

Now THERE'S a radical idea. 

 

Going back to singles, I suggested to Bill while we were at Warley that having solved the traction problems on the Stirling Single the next steps are obvious, namely the Caledonian '123' and the Johnson 'Spinner', but his eyes glazed over. 

 

But a Dean Single would be GWR enough for Bill I'd have thought, even though it's outside framed?

[No Decorum]

Now THERE'S a radical idea. 

 

Going back to singles, I suggested to Bill while we were at Warley that having solved the traction problems on the Stirling Single the next steps are obvious, namely the Caledonian '123' and the Johnson 'Spinner', but his eyes glazed over. 

 

But a Dean Single would be GWR enough for Bill I'd have thought, even though it's outside framed?

Very good thinking. Perhaps "suggested" was a false step. Wasn't Richard Nixon credited with a remark to the effect, "Get them by the gonads and their hearts and minds follow"? Dean Single & Caley yin twa trey would be nice but the Spinner has the virtue of not having been modelled RTR before.

 

Glad to hear that Bill has solved the traction problems. Has he worked out how to make it tilt yet?

[Mr_Tilt]

 

 

Glad to hear that Bill has solved the traction problems. Has he worked out how to make it tilt yet?

 

Not easy with 8ft dia. wheels. The tops of the wheels go out of gauge before you can get to any worthwhile tilt angle....

[The Stationmaster]

Now THERE'S a radical idea. 

 

Going back to singles, I suggested to Bill while we were at Warley that having solved the traction problems on the Stirling Single the next steps are obvious, namely the Caledonian '123' and the Johnson 'Spinner', but his eyes glazed over. 

 

But a Dean Single would be GWR enough for Bill I'd have thought, even though it's outside framed?

Dean is the correct word - and one that Bill seemed quite keen on when we had a chat at the Warley show although rather worryingly Jason seemed to think it had something to do with some sort of obsession on Bill's part (I assured Jason that it was in fact perfectly normal behaviour and really was a 'great interest'  rather than anything to worry about).  (Well nothing to worry about it until it has taken over totally)

[DavidBird]

Sorry to have missed you out at "the end of the line" from Glenfinnan ... it's not all empty here you know

[Wolf27]

'We often get asked if we will produce a model of the APT-P. Obviously I would like to, but the economics of it are not inspiring. Not many people have catenary on their layouts, and those that do most likely don't have space for a 14-car train. Shane Wilton is the man you want to speak to if you are looking for a model of the P-train. He's on RMWeb and I am sure he would be open to building one for you!'

 

Thanks for the plug Jason, much appreciated!

 

cheers

 

Shane

[Mr_Tilt]

Hmmm, a 'What If' model of a gas turbine P-Train might be interesting. Not that I expect Jason and Co. to make one, but as I have a spare Hornby P-Train I might try that one day.

 

I might even paint it silver and blue too....   

[Wolf27]

Hmmm, a 'What If' model of a gas turbine P-Train might be interesting. Not that I expect Jason and Co. to make one, but as I have a spare Hornby P-Train I might try that one day.

 

I might even paint it silver and blue too....   

That's heresy !

[No Decorum]

It can't be heresy. As regards this project, Mr. Tilt is canonical.

 

Perhaps he could create his model. Perhaps he could convince Sir Richard and Network Rail that's it's a goer. Perhaps we could at last hammer down and up the WCML at 155 m.p.h. in trains made in Britain. Perhaps I could dry the tears from my eyes at last.

[rapidotrains]

Hi guys,

 

The whole thing is in one place now:

 

http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/2015/12/09/bill-and-jasons-excellent-uk-adventure/

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Jason

[mikeharvey22]

It can't be heresy. As regards this project, Mr. Tilt is canonical.

 

Perhaps he could create his model. Perhaps he could convince Sir Richard and Network Rail that's it's a goer. Perhaps we could at last hammer down and up the WCML at 155 m.p.h. in trains made in Britain. Perhaps I could dry the tears from my eyes at last.

At least most of the Pendolinos were made in Birmingham, but you will have to wait a bit for 155mph.

[wombatofludham]

At least most of the Pendolinos were made in Birmingham, but you will have to wait a bit for 155mph.

I think the bodies came from Italy, some of the traction kit came from France and the rest from Preston and Stafford, and the bogies from Switzerland. The blokes with screwdrivers and hopefully some of the nuts and bolts came from Birmingham though.

 

I remember going to see Met-Camm/GEC Alstom when they were assembling the Nightstar and Eurostar vehicles and we were told they had finished making complete vehicles from scratch many years before and were just an assembly plant. They did point out though that the tables for the Eurostar were made locally in Perry Barr, which was nice.

[darrel]

150 grand for an APT-P - well, probably a lot more than that for a P train. I was just throwing a number out there. A regular locomotive or wagon costs less.

 

This is bringing crowd funding to a new level. I can just see the conversation.

 

"Dad, Jason from Rapido says that we can have a better model of a Class 28 if we pay the $90,000 tooling costs. As you are in the House of Lords and you're worth a mint, I thought I'd ask."

 

"Well son, that seems like a good investment. What is our return?"

 

"Nothing."

 

"You mean it's an interest-free loan? I can see that working."

 

"Errr... nope."

 

"A donation, then? Will I get a receipt for income tax purposes?"

 

"Ummm... nope."

 

"So what you are saying is I am going to give my hard-earned money away so you can have a better model of the Class 28 than the perfectly good one that came out a couple of years ago?"

 

"Well, um, yes, essentially."

 

"Right. Sounds like a plan! Here's the cash."

 

Jason as soon as I win the lottery I will be in touch with my wish list.

[The Stationmaster]

I think the bodies came from Italy, some of the traction kit came from France and the rest from Preston and Stafford, and the bogies from Switzerland. The blokes with screwdrivers and hopefully some of the nuts and bolts came from Birmingham though.

 

I remember going to see Met-Camm/GEC Alstom when they were assembling the Nightstar and Eurostar vehicles and we were told they had finished making complete vehicles from scratch many years before and were just an assembly plant. They did point out though that the tables for the Eurostar were made locally in Perry Barr, which was nice.

Quite correct as regards Eurostar and the night stock - they basically fitted out body shells although that was quite a complex process on some of the night vehicles with lots of electrics and plumbing involved.  

 

They had by then very few trained craftsmen on their books and in fact I  was given to understand they had simply recruited whatever ever labour they could get for the night stock contract and most of those had no previous vehicle assembly experience at all.  The old days of MetCamm were long dead by then and they only got the night stock contract by going in with an absolutely rock bottom price (and then making as much as they could by bunging in expensive Variation Orders for every tiny little change).