Cornish Branch Line

[Despatcher]

After putting it off for years, I am going to bite the bullet and build a (small) layout of exhibition standard that I can take to exhibitions. Especially as  we are both now retired and my wife is looking forward to visiting places with the layout. Although I am not sure how we go about exhibiting either but I need to build it first! I have spent the last four years building a loco shed yard to what I believe is exhibition standard but it is attached to the house! i am also moving out of my comfort zone and moving to modern image, about which I know slightly less than very little.

 

As a family our two children and four grandchildren have been to Cornwall on holiday every year for the past 5 years. I have taken the grandchildren on most of the Cornish Branch lines every year. What fascinates me (and them?!) is travelling down a Cornish branch in a Class 150 or Class 153 DMU and coming across a big diesel loco hauling and shunting two or three wagons, or just sitting in the middle of seemingly nowhere all by itself,  and this is what I want to model.

 

As already mentioned, my serious modelling for the last 20+ years has focussed on steam/diesel transition and so the correct locos are a bit of a puzzle. I am fine with the DMUs, I think (?), as I sit and look at them every summer. What I am not sure about, and what I need help with please, is what large diesel locos I should have as I would like my new layout to be as accurate as possible for the last five years, so 2010 - 2015. 

 

Whereas I can tell the difference between a Class 44, 45, and 46 diesel at 100 yards, like wise a Hall from a Grange and a King from a Castle, a Class 59 and a Class 66 look much the same to me (sorry). I saw a Class 60 on the Looe Branch last summer as we had to wait for it to clear Coombe Junction. Although I have been questioned about my eyesight and told it was a rarity. But it was there as a light engine. I have also seen photos of Class 70s in recent magazines in Cornwall.

 

I only need 3 big diesels to start off with, so some suggestions as to Class and livery (it was so much easier when the were all agree!) would be very, very much welcome and appreciated at this stage. 

 

I have many photos to help with buildings and signalling - I love modern locos and lower quadrant semaphores and indeed some of the station valences from a bygone age with modern signage.

 

Many, many thanks in advance.

 

 

[brianusa]

You can do no better than to read John Vaughn's Branches and Byways in Cornwall and rationalise as required.  It would seem that any heritage diesel would be suitable.

 

Brian.

[Gwiwer]

For the last 5 years, as you ask for 2010-15, you need invest in nothing more than a trio of class 66 locos.  One in DBS red and the others in EWS maroon / gold would represent the scene nicely.

 

However the number of times and places where you would see those "sitting in the middle of nowhere" in the last five years while passing by on a passenger train would be very limited indeed.  Freight has declined sharply in the Royal Duchy and what there is mostly travels via the freight-only Parkandillack / Treviscoe and Fowey branches.  That is the china clay traffic which shares the main line between Burngulllow and Lostwithiel.

 

The description of a large loco with two or three wagons sitting in the middle of nowhere is more reminiscent of those china clay workings which used to be found on the Newquay branch at places such as Carbis Wharf and Goonbarrow Junction.  Those have ceased and would have used class 37 locos until they did so.  Very occasional trains still run up the Newquay branch towards Goonbarrow but don't wait up - you'd lose a lot of sleep unless you knew what was coming and when.  Freight traffic to Moorswater, where you saw the 60, has also ceased although could return at some future time.

 

Other non-passenger traffic in the past five years has included the rail-head treatment train each year between two 66s and a steady stream of infrastructure trains for track renewals and such like which have been worked by 66s and more recently by Colas-liveried class 70 locos. The fuel tanks to Long Rock have now ceased though their last days fall within your timeframe and you can again use an EWS class 66 for those.  The railway in the west of England and Cornwall is almost passenger-only these days despite the best efforts of some people to win more traffic to rail.

 

Class 60 has made a very few sorties into Cornwall and a few were stored at St. Blazey for a number of years but have now left for return to traffic up country.

[Despatcher]

Many thanks that is helpful. I will have to think carefully. I have obviously been fortunate in seeing some odd workings during the last five years. I think possibly engineers' or ballast trains with three wagons and a Class 66 and the odd light engine movement, which is what I assume the 60 was doing, if indeed it was a 60. It was definitely not a 66. I have certainly not seen any China Clay workings except at Lostwithiel and I do not want to model Lostwithiel station.  Trying to capture my recent memories in a small layout, 6' x 2' maximum plus fiddle yard, may not be typical and although realistic for me may not ring true or antagonise people at an exhibition. Perhaps going back to 37s may be more realistic but then would the DMUs have been 150s and 153s? What livery would the final 37s have carried? However this would not be something I actually saw and have less interest for me. If I hadn't seen the 60 last summer i would possibly have thought about the nuclear flask trains at Dungeness which are 10 mins along the seafront from here. But then I lose the old infrastructure with semaphores which I quite like the juxtaposition of. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Perhaps worth mentioning that at one time Freightliner operated cement trains to Moorswater with a class 66—a change from all the EWS stuff mentioned (before that it was worked by EWS with a class 37).

[MJI]

May be worth going a bit older to the change over between old DMUs and Sprinters. Best thing is the lack of sheds.

 

Then you can use 37s, the new DMU Bachmann are making for the Cornish model shop (117 or 118), and of course 37s, also 50s and 37s.

 

Here is some variety

 

118 in BT livery

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5257/5459192427_3ed2650583_b.jpg

 

117 in GWR (near end of life)

http://www.flickriver.com/places/United+Kingdom/England/Liskeard/search/

 

142 set

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/3843100_orig.jpg

 

That said I am considering a early 60s hydraulic layout at the moment, got the 22 and a small prairie

 

There are a few good books worth looking for, I will find the names later

[Despatcher]

Many thanks to all replies. Certainly lots to think about and all very helpful indeed. Enjoyed the links from MJI. At some point I just need to say "that's it" but I welcome responses as it is enabling me to make decisions. I think railway modelling is based both on accuracy and art. Marrying the two with memories is, in my view, what makes me a modeller. Recreating the past or present with slightly rose tinted spectacles is what governs my bank balance. 

 

I spent many holidays in St Ives at a very early age watching the Cornish Rivera arrive with lots of Prairie Tanks. At the same age we also used to stay in Newquay and travel by train to St Ives via Chasewater and seeing and travelling behind D600 Active. This is why I am trying to get my head around recent years and the Cornish Branches. At the end of the day it is a challenge.

 

I am off shortly to take more photos on the Looe branch. I also aim to spend some time on the main line at Lostwithirel just to see what "comes through" with lots of help from Real Time Trains. If only this had been available when i was a trainspotter ... wow!

[Gwiwer]

 

 

lots of help from Real Time Trains. If only this had been available when i was a trainspotter ... wow!

 

It does everything except underline your cops

 

Although you specifically ay you are concentrating on recent years it might be worth considering Kernow MRC's D600 project as you remember being hauled by one.  These locos are due out in the new year.  

Link provided FYI and with no commercial connection : http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/104/Warship_Limited_Editions

[Despatcher]

Thanks  for the link to Kernow D600. I have had two " on order " for my bolted to the house layout for what seems like eternity. My exhibition layout just needs to be different. Thanks.

[MJI]

Last time I travelled by train to Cornwall it was 47s on aircons and HSTs. Cornwall main line was 158 units and the branches were still ran by 117 and 118, 117 305 (ex B430 the GWR set) was working on the Liskeard Looe branch.

 

I loved travelling on those branches.

[edcayton]

I also can't tell the difference between a 59 and a 66, but a 60 is fairly distinctive. I know that quite a few were stored at BZ, but what was one doing at Combe? Surely one of our Cornish enthusiasts must know.

 

Ed

[chris p bacon]

 but a 60 is fairly distinctive. I know that quite a few were stored at BZ, but what was one doing at Combe?

There was Moorswater for IIRC cement but I thought that had ceased.

[edcayton]

OP says last 5 years, but were 60's used on this traffic? IIRC it was Freightliner 66's.

 

Ed

[Despatcher]

If I had realised it was a "rarity", I would have taken a photo. If it helps, it was the afternoon of Weds August 12th 2015. Our DMU had to wait at the bottom of the incline just before the point that gives access to the station. The loco was stationary when we stopped and just the Looe side of the platform. Two guys in HiViz orange jackets climbed into the rear cab (nearest Looe) and it then set off in the other direction i.e. away from the Looe. Our DMU then had right of way into the station, driver changed ends and we headed off to Looe.

 

This manoeuvre was the catalyst for my new layout idea. I could easily reproduce but presumably I would get lots of comments if I used a 60? From replies so far it looks like 66s and a 70 would be a safe bet but ...

 

Not being good at current or modern image locos, I have no idea of livery of this loco as I do not instantly recognise most of them. If  I was pushed I would go for mainly grey with bits of blue? It certainly was not red (EWS? or Schenker?) or green and yellow (which I think is Freightliner?). 

 

Thanks to all.

[Despatcher]

Just to add a little about my mystery loco. A Friend who lives in Cornwall and is a long standing part time loco watcher has suggested it may have been a 67 in Riviera livery as they were due to take over the Night Riviera from September. However, why one would have ventured down the Looe branch seems odd. But there are photos of Class 70s in Colas Rail livery on the St Ives' Branch (one at Lelant Park and Ride late at night) on the web, so I suppose anything is possible. I just wish I had taken a photo. That may have been the first 67 I have seen.

 

Many thanks for the help and suggestions I have received. I now have a shopping list, a track plan, and a carpenter next door but one. If you go to an exhibition and see a layout named "On My Holidays" in late 2016 or onwards, then say hello as that will be me. It will be more or less time period accurate but, as I strongly believe that railway modelling is Art and if it is ok for John Constable to change the direction of the River Stour in the Haywain then I can proceed with a bit of artistic licence too. After all it is my layout. With sincere understanding and apologies to all the purists.

 

MANY THANKS INDEED

[Gwiwer]

Class 67 has only rarely visited Cornwall in recent times and is, to the best of my knowledge, banned by reason of axle loading from the Looe branch.  The only traffic they ever worked regularly in the Royal Duchy was the parcels / TPO service for a couple of years when almost new.  

 

I'm a bit confused by your references to "Riviera livery".  There is the private operator Riviera Trains who operate charters and who do use class 67 on those at times.  The Cornish Riviera and Night Riviera named trains are in (First) Great Western fleet livery which until very recently was the blue "wavy lines" livery they called Dynamic Lines; recent repaints have gained the new dark green GWR livery.

 

Class 70 has lighter axle loading than class 67 and is permitted to work on all Cornish branches except, as far as I know, Bere Alston - Gunnislake and that restriction is due to the curvature.  They have been seen quite regularly working infrastructure trains for which Colas has gained numerous contracts.

[Despatcher]

Thanks for that. I'm still sticking with my Class 60 as that is what I think I saw, especially if 67s are too heavy. I live near the Channel Tunnel and have seen a number of 60s in Dolland's Moor Yard over the years. It is just the livery of the loco that I saw at Coombe Junction that is at odds with what should be there. Would any 60s have had Dynamic Lines livery you mention.

 

I would like to portray this scene on my layout but I would like to get it mostly correct and obviously if 67s are too heavy that would be a bit to much artistic licence and would not sit right with me.

 

This is a recent comment on another website forum, I found while searching and has been confirmed by my friend in Cornwall. Perhaps he meant the current Dynamic Lines livery you mentioned and just called Riviera Livery. 

 

"FGW drivers on another forum have announced that FGW have concluded talks for the night Riviera to be hauled by class 67s from September 2015. 

6 months from now will be used for driver training on the 67s.

Each rake will be hauled by 2 67s".

 

Many thanks indeed. Most helpful.

[Gwiwer]

The Night Riviera is still hauled by a single class 57 most nights.  On a very few nights and usually for loco balancing purposes two are used.  I am aware that moves have been made to use class 67 on the service and more recently there have been suggestions of the brand-new class 68 being used instead but for now the 57s are in charge.

 

No class 60 has worn Dynamic Lines livery as none is operated by First Great Western.

[Despatcher]

Thanks again. Final question. Well two actually, sorry! If what I saw was a 60, as it was not a 59 or a 66, what livery possibilies are there? If it wasn't a 60 what are your suggestions? Many thanks.

[Despatcher]

Thanks again. Final question. Well two actually, sorry! If what I saw was a 60, as it was not a 59 or a 66, what livery possibilies are there? If it wasn't a 60 what are your suggestions? Many thanks.

Having had time today I have spent around 2 and a half hours trying to identify the loco I saw in the summer. I finally found a photo of a 59 in Hanson Livery taken in March 2015 in Cornwall. The livery, although I have never heard of it, is what I saw. From research it seems only to exist on 59s at the moment. So, it seems I cannot identify a 59 after all. I also trawled a lot of information about about anything other than DMUs on the Looe branch and it would appear it is non-existent! As I also cannot find a supplier of a 59 in Hanson Livery, so my new layout will not have one. Sad.  I am now giving up. Especially as it seems highly unlikely I saw what I saw!

 

I asked the guy who weathers my locos about Hanson Livery as he is brilliant at modern image liveries. He lives in Sandiacre almost over the road from Toton. Apparently 59002 is in there at the moment being painted in Hanson livery blue/grey livery. As ever many thanks. The end.

[rob D2]

I wouldn't give up.

It was an interesting area, but not so much these days.

 

Up to privatisation in 1996 it was class 37/5s , owned by ' Transrail ', search for 37670 -675.

 

Upon privatisation they soldiered on, class 60s were introduced on longer freight. Eventually EWS 66s came in.

More variety of 37s immediately before the 66 domination as EWS incorporated mainline, transrail and load haul .

 

These days all China clay is done by DB schenker, who brought out EWS in 2008. Still 66s. EWS livery and DBS livery.

No booked workings for DBS 60s now.

 

I think some 60s of rival freight firm Colas got down there on engineering trains.

 

If it was a Hanson 59, it would be operated by DBS again. These locos normally work out of the mendip quarries but DBS had an agreement to borrow them for engineers trains at weekends. As yet there is no 59 model, but I think it's coming ...?

[DavidB-AU]

DRS 37s have ventured down into Cornwall in recent years, including to places like Looe, on Network Rail radio test trains. Usually just one of the radio survey coaches and a DBSO.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/2791636_orig.jpg

 

Cheers

David

[Gwiwer]

I was not aware of any 59 working into Cornwall but have located a few images of 59101 and another of its type on Sunday 3rd March 2013 with an engineer's train.  I have not found any images from 2015 thus far.

 

There are also images of several class 59/2 in DBS bright red livery working freights in Cornwall at about the same time.

 

These all look very similar to a class 66 but sub-classes 59/0 and 59/1 are owned and operated by the Mendip quarrying concerns.  Aside from sub-class 59/2 which was delivered for power-station coal work in Yorkshire none has appeared in EW&S livery.  It is the 59/1 quartet which wear Hanson livery while the four 59/0 which have remained in the UK wear Aggregate Industries livery.  59003 has spent much of its life in Germany and only recently returned and it may be this one rather than 59002 which is undergoing repaint at Toton.

 

DJ Models had announced their intention to produce class 59 in OO and in N but has withdrawn from the project in both scales due to licensing issues with at least one of the liveries.  In a commercially sensitive environment it is not stated which livery was refused a licence but it clearly affected the viability of the entire project.  Hornby R2935 is a model of 59206 in DBS red which could be repainted into one of the Mendip liveries by a skilled person.  Sold out now at the major retailers one might still be sourced via the second-hand market.

[Despatcher]

After reading all (plural) of our most helpful comments, I feel I need to extend the time period of the layout a little. If I included 1996 - 2016, then what diesels would have been around in Cornwall and may have taken  a trundle down a branch line? I am assuming DMUs would still be mainly 153s? Thanks.

[DavidB-AU]

You could legitimately run 153s or 150s. Falmouth had 150s until 2009 when the Penryn loop was opened, then became 153s at twice the frequency. But due to increased demand it became 150s again in 2012. Looe has had single 153s, pairs of 153s and single 150s over that era. St Ives has seen single 153s, single 150s and in recent years pairs of 150s in summer.

 

37s were working to Moorswater into the late 90s (1999 was the latest photo I could find), after that 66s. EWS had the contract until 2002, then Freightliner until 2013 (variously Freightliner green/yellow, 2-tone green Shanks Freightliner and occasionally blue Bardon Aggregates liveries), then to DBS.

 

As mentioned above DRS 37s sometimes get onto the branches on NR test trains. So have DRS 20s on the weed killing train and various other bits of track machinery.

 

You could also conceivably operate a railtour with top and tailed 37s, possibly WCRC, DRS or both. Plus GWR 9644 and Steam Railmotor 93 have run run on the Looe branch for special occasions.

 

Cheers

David